Ok, I'm late to the party: CAPblog Link (http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2006/11/priceless.html)
The emoticon doesn't begin to describe my anger at discovering this. I can't help but feel somewhat responsible, as I have been singing the praises of the tapes from 1800Nametapes for a few years now.
I don't want to repeat what I said over there, but in short... NHQ of course has the right to control proprietary trademarks & such (insignia). However:
1) in no case can it regulate the embroidery of a person's name.
2) The military has the same rights over its own insignia; yet they don't excercise them & they can be purchased cheaper, faster, better from other suppliers (the same suppliers we use). AAFES functions like CAPMART/Bookstore used to try to do, which is to deliver poducts at a discount as a benefit to members & provide for the required needs of their people.
3) Vanguard sucks all getout. We should cut ties with them & move our business to a better quality supplier who will serve our needs & make us better by the association. Several examples have been cited - USCAV, Galls, AAFES, etc. Personally I very much want williams & williams to make my flt suit name patch, cause if the ones from vanguard are anything like the ones from the bookstore, then I'm not sure I want to wear a flt suit at all anymore.
4) all these are REAL issues that effect retention in a big way. Be it processing a promotion or decoration quickly, or having uniform items ready & shipped quickly at a reasonable price (both the item & the shipping) with good customer service... if you don't do that GREAT you're screwing your people out of one of the few ways they are rewarded for their service & you don't deserve to lead anyone anywhere.
As I have said before, Vanguard is the primer maker of Uniform items and insignia in the nation. I think, when they over took CAP's CAPMART (the one time CAP Bookstore) they underestimated the need.
It took them from October of last year to nearly March to make the transition. Still, they do not have pics of items. I am of the sort that really needs to see at least a pic of what I am getting. (They don't even have pics of the CAP Command Patch!) That needs to be mitigated.
Now, there seems to be an ever growing un-AMERICAN monopoly being created here. 1800Nametapes have never, to my knoweldge, produced an inferior CAP nametape.
I seem something most foul a foot here...
Even so, I am a supporter of VANGUARD. I have been very impressed with the service I have been extended. But let me say this, they need to shape up really fast!!!
Trademarked items, yes CAP has every right to control. Generic items. Absolutely not!
The problem from my humble little corner of the CAP World is that everytime we turn around we are being compelled to pay more and more for our volunteer experience. Too many uniforms and too many unform changes that dig deeper into our collective pockets.
If I can find a uniform item that is cheaper and of equal or better quality I am going to buy it. I have found 'aviator' style shirts which are virtually identical to what Vanguard is peddling but far cheaper at a uniform supply store. I have purchased the blue BDU's at a Army Surplus/Police Supply store cheaper than Vanguard. I found a pair of pants at Sears which matched the color of the AF blue trousers, cheaper than what our 'official' source wants to get out of us.
Couldn't they continue selling "blue, vintage style replica Air Force nametapes" that we as CAP members just kinda sorta happen to stumble upon and "accidentally" notice that they match our uniforms well? ;D
I mean, a blue piece of cloth is a blue piece of cloth. Nametapes don't say CAP, so surely they cancontinue selling them w/o explicitly saying "CAP?"
This is pretty dumb. Just a way for Vanguard or NHQ or whoever to make a buck.
Quote from: CAP428 on November 28, 2006, 05:32:20 AM
Couldn't they continue selling "blue, vintage style replica Air Force nametapes" that we as CAP members just kinda sorta happen to stumble upon and "accidentally" notice that they match our uniforms well? ;D
I mean, a blue piece of cloth is a blue piece of cloth. Nametapes don't say CAP, so surely they cancontinue selling them w/o explicitly saying "CAP?"
This is pretty dumb. Just a way for Vanguard or NHQ or whoever to make a buck.
They actually can sell a blue tape with your name on it. But that's it. I just ordered some last week. Vanguard actually has the loom woven tapes for 75 cents. I know I'll look different, but if NHQ has a problem with that, then they'll get Vanguard to reduce the price, allow others to produce the tapes, or issue it to me.
I think the most convincing argument is on CAPBlog:
Quote
1-800-Nametape
3 embroideded nametapes $0.85 (per nametape) x3 + $3.00 (shipping) = $5.55
Civil Air Patrol Store by Vanguard
3 embroidered nametapes $3.20 (per nametape) x3 + $7.00 (shipping) = $16.60
I know of another source where our squadron gets all of our nameptaes, and they cost $1 (per nametape) + $1.50 (shipping) for a total for three tapes, in comparison, is
$4.50, and the quality is great.
They beat everyone on price, quality, and shipping costs. Heck, they even beat Vanguard on turnaround time; but now I can't share that company's URL with fellow CAP members for a legitimate fear that profit-mongering NHQ suit sharks will sue the [mess] out of them. ::)
I guess Civil Air Patrol, Inc. thinks they have the worldwide exclusive right to sew white letters on blue strips of cloth... anywhere. Period.
Keep [farg]ing us volunteers in the ass until we can't take it anymore. Good plan of action. Great.
---So, on a clearly unrelated topic everyone, why are retention rates so bad?
feel free to PM it to me if you feel like, I need to order some & that's cheaper than my local supplier.
I could use a PM on that source as well.
Let's see a 104% loss in membership? We are now down from 64k to 57k, this is pre 9-11 levels.
I for one am getting sick of the changes. Personally if ALL adult Officers and a large percentage of cadets would boycott Vangaurd, there would be rapid changes.
There are still plenty of sources that you can buy the larger items from. Do it! Since I this last name tape thing, I am pulling my purchasing from Vanguard. I am sticking with the gray distincitves and nothing more. I will be writing HQ and discussing with my commander..
Enough is enough.. I AM A VOLUNTEER! Not a cash cow for HQ.
Remember HQ is making 100k year in royalities from Vanguard, well where does that money come from? Hint, it aint out of Vangaurds pocket...
Pylon, I'll take a PM on your source also. Screw Vanguard. I've got one cadet that ordered his stuff over 2 monthas ago and has been getting it like Johnny Cash's caddy- one piece at a time. He still doesn't have a complete uniform of his own (he's using borrowed insignia), and now the stripes he ordered are no longer needed as he has already promoted.
Add me to the PM list, please - similar headaches with Vanguard on my end.
They still sell white on blue and white on navy custom tapes... So maybe all hope is not lost?
Wonders how long The Hock will remain in business.
Quote from: MIKE on November 28, 2006, 02:34:14 PM
Wonders how long The Hock will remain in business.
SHHHH!!!!! Don't give them any motivation... :-X
PM that source to me as well please.
Quote from: MIKE on November 28, 2006, 02:34:14 PM
They still sell white on blue and white on navy custom tapes... So maybe all hope is not lost?
Wonders how long The Hock will remain in business.
As I understand it, the Hock is more-or-less a retailer, they don't manufacture the uniform items. Now, I'm not sure the trophies and miscellaneous items constitute in terms of the law.
The Hock, historically, seems to me to be for of a service to CAP that a profitable enterprise. I say that not knowing its true profitability and its current intended purpose.
I still feel that Vanguard entered this thinking that CAP was a small unprofitable market and sought a monopoly to insure profitability. Now, to what extent CAP National is making that (remember this is mere speculation on my part and take it for what it is worth) is anyone's guess.
I've got it figured out!! :o
We need someone to volunteer to be the guinea pig, legally change their name to "Civil Air Patrol" and then order a crapload of the "generic, blue nametapes with white embroidery" of their name and then ship them all to us as a nice "gift" while we just happen to also be giving them a "gift" of a few dollars.
There. All problems solved. Who knew circumnavigating NHQ would be so easy?? :o
I have never ordered any thing from vanguard, and now i never will. If i have to i will find a way to make my stuff by hand, to prove the point.
Quote from: Pylon on November 28, 2006, 05:46:06 AM
I think the most convincing argument is on CAPBlog:
Quote
1-800-Nametape
3 embroideded nametapes $0.85 (per nametape) x3 + $3.00 (shipping) = $5.55
Civil Air Patrol Store by Vanguard
3 embroidered nametapes $3.20 (per nametape) x3 + $7.00 (shipping) = $16.60
I know of another source where our squadron gets all of our nameptaes, and they cost $1 (per nametape) + $1.50 (shipping) for a total for three tapes, in comparison, is $4.50, and the quality is great.
They beat everyone on price, quality, and shipping costs. Heck, they even beat Vanguard on turnaround time; but now I can't share that company's URL with fellow CAP members for a legitimate fear that profit-mongering NHQ suit sharks will sue the [mess] out of them. ::)
I guess Civil Air Patrol, Inc. thinks they have the worldwide exclusive right to sew white letters on blue strips of cloth... anywhere. Period.
Keep [farg]ing us volunteers in the ass until we can't take it anymore. Good plan of action. Great.
---So, on a clearly unrelated topic everyone, why are retention rates so bad?
Can I get in on the PM action as well? :-X
Add me to the PM actions too!
I would like that PM as well. thanks
Well...I guess PM me as well.
Thx! On it now. ;D
Yeah, I guess I'll check it out, too. Please on the PM.
Me too please! :)
Mike, we need name tapes here too... please fill me in on the source...
Sir, would you mind PMing me the source as well? Thanks.
Mike, I don't need PM'd on the source. Thanks