HWSNBN and Harwell

[FW]

Fred: I can see why you might of been "taken to task" in the past for your chat room postings.

Irony Strikes Twice.

Such a darling photo, they all look so thrilled, with an expression of "I hope they never investigate this.." But after all, it must be true. They're volunteers.. who volunteered themselves to the award. ANY ONE OF THEM could have spoken up.

I really need some of that Kool-aid..

The awards were rescinded. The medals were turned in and all was "forgiven".  :angel:

[capmaj]

^^

:clap:

[Eclipse]

Old road, search is your friend, no one cares about these people any more.

No one person causes anything in CAP - yes a specific individual may click the button or
become a catalyst, but the majority of anything of consequence is due to the committee-like-nature
of CAP's governance (moreso in the past then today), people who feel empowered to write checks
that they expect others to cash with absolutely no connection to reality, common sense, or respect
for the opinion of others unless it was "invented here", and a general reluctance towards uncomfortable
conversations which allows people who clearly have no business being in positions of influence or authority
to rise through the ranks while the people around them just shake their heads.

In this case, hindsight wasn't even necessary to see the issues, yet they were disregarded, ignored, or downplayed.

At this point in my CAP universe, I am convinced that the more someone wants a non-paying, horribly difficult and
subjective job, the less able they are to actually do it without drama and a wake in their path.

[FW]

"HWSNBN" was not removed from office, however his membership was terminated by the BoG for various reasons; abuse of power, falsifying a silver medal of valor award, FW&A, and a couple of lesser charges. The charge of "cheating on exams" was never proven, however the Air Force made significant changes to testing procedures for its AFDL courses after his membership termination.  We can also thank him for starting us on the path we are now traveling on. 

Fred: I can see why you might of been "taken to task" in the past for your chat room postings.

I was "taken to task" for reporting governance committee recommendations on CT. I reprinted material from another site but the region commanders thought there was a leak in the group. I couldn't help them. It was "unfortunate" it came up when it did.   

[Storm Chaser]

At this point in my CAP universe, I am convinced that the more someone wants a non-paying, horribly difficult and subjective job, the less able they are to actually do it without drama and a wake in their path.

That is an unfortunate truth.

[Cindi]

"HWSNBN" was not removed from office, however his membership was terminated by the BoG for various reasons; abuse of power, falsifying a silver medal of valor award, FW&A, and a couple of lesser charges. The charge of "cheating on exams" was never proven, however the Air Force made significant changes to testing procedures for its AFDL courses after his membership termination.  We can also thank him for starting us on the path we are now traveling on. 

Fred: I can see why you might of been "taken to task" in the past for your chat room postings.

I was "taken to task" for reporting governance committee recommendations on CT. I reprinted material from another site but the region commanders thought there was a leak in the group. I couldn't help them. It was "unfortunate" it came up when it did.   

It was an orchestrated and unfair charge against you and was disappointing to see it played out like it was.

[NIN]

In this case, hindsight wasn't even necessary to see the issues, yet they were disregarded, ignored, or downplayed.

There were at least three guys on the old CAP-Talk mailing list in the 1990s who said "Don't. Trust. Tony. Pineda.  Seriously."

They had firsthand knowledge of the stuff he was capable of.

They were shouted down and eventually run out  of CAP on a rail.

Took almost 15 years for it to prove out, but they were right.

[rugger1869]

In this case, hindsight wasn't even necessary to see the issues, yet they were disregarded, ignored, or downplayed.

There were at least three guys on the old CAP-Talk mailing list in the 1990s who said "Don't. Trust. Tony. Pineda.  Seriously."

They had firsthand knowledge of the stuff he was capable of.

They were shouted down and eventually run out  of CAP on a rail.

Took almost 15 years for it to prove out, but they were right.

That's a real shame. I've seen smaller things happen at the squadron level that was similar. WIWAC I was in a fairly large Composite squadron that was very cohesive and had great esprit (barring the internal flight of old pilots that liked to have us wash and wax their planes for an O-ride that was usually cancelled when we were done wiping off the wax). Anyway, a family transferred from another state that was "odd." RUMINT was full of warning about how the matron of the family was overbearing and domineering. Shortly after their arrival she became the DCC. Soon after, bullying started occurring amongst the cadets, her kids were placed in all the leadership positions (she had 4, IIRC), and basically undid years of work in short order. All things told it took one person to drive off 30+ cadets and seniors. She finally left (with her kids) after about a year. It took the squadron 15 years to regain the numbers, but it never fully recovered. It's a shame really, it really only takes one in a volunteer organization.

[a2capt]

It was an orchestrated and unfair charge against you and was disappointing to see it played out like it was.

But they too were volunteers, and should be praised. According to some prior posts..

Shenanigans trumps thanks. Sorry. No thanks.

[FW]

It was an orchestrated and unfair charge against you and was disappointing to see it played out like it was.

But they too were volunteers, and should be praised. According to some prior posts..

Shenanigans trumps thanks. Sorry. No thanks.

I think this is the most profoundly cryptic post I've seen in quite some time. Would you care to elaborate?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Now that is quite troubling.  The volunteer national commander of the Civil Air Patrol taking an Air Force two star's hotel room should give us all sleepless nights. To prevent this from ever happening again, the CAP should wear its own distinctive uniform without the epaulets of course. I suggest the airline style uniform once in fashion with our air force brethren:



:clap:

We had a good, attractive, distinctive uniform...and it was introduced by Him Whom We Do Not Name.



However, it was taken from us in 2011 by Those Who Know A Lot Better Than We Lower Forms Of Life...without any explanation.

It wasn't the Air Force.  They asked CAP to make changes in it.  We did.

We got our widdle paddies whacked for wanting a distinctive uniform that didn't look like a Realtor or a mall security guard.

The new 39-1 reinforces this: if you're too "fat or fuzzy" to wear the modified uniform of our parent service, you get to wear the bloody ugly (IMO) "corporate uniform" and look nothing like any part of CAP heritage or aviation history.  You vill vear it und you vill like it or at least not say anything against it, because you have no other choice, und if you haff any "suggestions" they better be grey, und do not say you vant a hat because you vill not get it.

That action, probably as much as any other, showed me and a lot of others just how out of touch Those Who Know A Lot Better are with We Lower Forms Of Life.

I actually met the Generalissimo once at a wing conference.  He struck me as a pretty reserved guy, ironically enough.

It's been a while since I looked at his U.S. Ranger Corps website.  I don't think they exist any more.

The Harwell thing happened just before I joined in 1993.  My then-squadron CC (who later became a wing commander, and then a Region staffer, before retiring) was personal friends with Brigadier General Richard Anderson (as in whenever my CC went to Maxwell - which was frequently - they usually had dinner together).  He told me that the Harwell incident was the "kicker" for us to look "distinctive," as in horrible maroon shoulder marks.  That was the story I heard from virtually anyone who was in CAP at the time.  He also told me that General Anderson told him (in about 1994) "you will never get metal grade or blue epaulettes back."

[Eclipse]

The new 39-1 reinforces this: if you're too "fat or fuzzy" to wear the modified uniform of our parent service, you get to wear the bloody ugly (IMO) "corporate uniform" and look nothing like any part of CAP heritage or aviation history.

Interesting how many of the people charged with making those decisions ignore them
in their own mirrors.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The new 39-1 reinforces this: if you're too "fat or fuzzy" to wear the modified uniform of our parent service, you get to wear the bloody ugly (IMO) "corporate uniform" and look nothing like any part of CAP heritage or aviation history.

Interesting how many of the people charged with making those decisions ignore them
in their own mirrors.

I suppose many of them could be Realtors or mall security guards (no offence toward either profession; I used to work for a printer that made real estate directories).

Honestly, our local mall security look just like CAP members in the G/W until you get close enough to see their insignia.

[SarDragon]

The Generalissimo's outfit was OK, except for two big problems - only the "fatties" could wear it, leaving us "fuzzies" with the Blazer, and it was double-breasted, making the heavy guys wearing it look even heavier.

[Archer]

I understand the need to accomodate those who struggle with weight, but can someone please explain why grooming requirements should be optional?

[Майор Хаткевич]

I understand the need to accomodate those who struggle with weight, but can someone please explain why grooming requirements should be optional?

We have certain members on this board, who have personal reasons for having a beard, for example. For some it is religion. A certain member on here has facial scars from his military service IIRC, and prefers to cover them with a beard. Honestly, if it's our distinctive uniform, AND the AF wants us to NOT be confused with AF, then they should be HAPPY about members with beards.

[PHall]

Your also forgetting the incident in the hotel where this national commander took a room reserved for a real Air Force two star.

Now that is quite troubling.  The volunteer national commander of the Civil Air Patrol taking an Air Force two star's hotel room should give us all sleepless nights. To prevent this from ever happening again, the CAP should wear its own distinctive uniform without the epaulets of course. I suggest the airline style uniform once in fashion with our air force brethren:



:clap:

Ah yes, Gen McPeak who was shown the door when he was fired as Air Force Chief of Staff.
As the Secratary of the Air Force put it  "I have lost faith in his ability to command."

Not exactly somebody you would want to put forward as an "good" example.

[JK657]

There is a ppt from the previous national commander that pretty much addresses the down fall of the CSU. If I'm not mistaken the AF had issues with the CSU even after the emergency changes were made. I tried to find it here but my search-fu is weak tonight.

Edit/: I searched for Courter's PowerPoint to answer Cyborg's CSU claims but in all 10 responses it was Cyborg who wrote about it so I assume he knows what info it contained

[AlphaSigOU]

I think this is the justification presentation...

[FW]

^ Yes, Chuck, that's the presentation given to the NB.  Not to reopen a can of worms, but there is no suggestion the Air Force did not want the CSU.  CAP-USAF made the suggestion to simplify our uniform options.  The NEC decided to act; even though the issue was tabled by the NB till it next met.  Of course it was legit; I just wonder how right it was...

I sometimes find it amusing how many can parse words so well to make their agenda seem so logical.  Power Point makes it sooo easy.