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Historian program

Started by BillB, August 15, 2012, 12:33:22 PM

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BillB

As a holder of a Masters Degree in History, I think I'm qualified to speak on this subject. CAP has a multitude of Historians at the Squadron, Group, Wing and National level Plus the CAP Histroical Foundation. And there is no coordination among them. How many Squadron Historians have submitted a unit history to Wing? How many Squadron PAO's have provided photos and copies of news releases to the Historian? Does the Historian at Squadron X have any idea what material may be stored in boxes at the Wing level on his/her units history?
To often a member is assigned as Historian just to fill the slot on the manning table, and has no idea what to do. So they do nothing. On the reverse side of the coin, there are several people in and out of CAP that are making a serious effort to document the history of CAP. And their efforts are not acknowledged or it seems in one case frowned on by the powers that be.
What is needed is a revision of the Regulation and a review of the Historian Professional Development program. Most important is leadership from the National level. Provide guidance from every level to the next lower level, and that is missing in the CAP Historical Program.
I've started five Squadrons in my 50 years in CAP, two of those units no longer exist. And I have never heard from a historian in the other three units asking about their early history. The average Historian has never done an Oral History Project with former members from the 1940's and up. Or how to do an Oral History interview.
Changes need to be made in the CAP Historical program(s) to provide leadership at all levels.   <end of rant>
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

RiverAux

Part of the problem is that the official format for a unit history is probably beyond the capabilities of most of those that are likely to fill squadron historian billets.  Anyone who has ever looked at one is likely to go, "whoa, thats too much".  What is needed is a fairly simple fill-in-the-blank form that could be done by just about anyone that would at least capture the highlights of that year.  Sure, it wouldn't be as good as using the current format, but I bet it would actually get used.  Some annual history is better than no annual history. 

Sad to say, the same is probably needed at the wing level.  Trying to get the information needed to do the current annual history from all the staff officers is just about impossible. 

And speaking of leadership, where are the annual historical reports (using the official format) that should be being produced by our national historians? 

James Shaw

I appreciate the post and would like to address some of the thoughts and concerns put forth.

I personally do not have a Master's degree in History, but I can only speak for myself on this. I do have 4 undergraduate degrees in different subjects and currently working on a Master's in Occupational Safety & Health. Not shabby for a "Hobby Historian". Some of the other Historians come from the Engineering Field and several with advanced degrees and education. I state this because the level of research experience needed to complete these college degrees is not easy.

I do not feel that you have to have an advanced education or any college in order to make a good dedicated volunteer member. Please note that I say Dedicated Volunteer Member, I don't think this is what you are saying in your post but this is a big part of how CAP operates. If we were to try and get members that have the academics to support the various jobs in CAP then we there would be fewer amongst our ranks. How many of our Professional Development Officer's have degrees in Human Resource Management, or Emergency Service Officer's that are FEMA professionals. As a volunteer organization we have to work with the people that "choose" to volunteer with us, from all kinds of backgrounds. Many of whom come to CAP to get away from their Professional Career's and invest in an interest. I personally have Bachelor's in HR and OSH and am not involved to any great extent in any of them with CAP.

As with any other program in CAP there are things that work and others that don't. I think we would be hard pressed to find ANY CAP program that is 100% in any direction. This is where part of the frustration mentioned may come into play. Most of the Historical Staff are purely support positions and do not have anyone they are "in charge" of such as a direct report. There are a few exceptions to this but not many. The Squadron, Wing, Region, all fall under their respective COC's. We as Historian's can make suggestions and requests as much as we want but we do not have authority over these individuals. I know that the National Historian sends out these requests every year and does get responses.

There are interactions between the various Historical folks more than you see on paper. We have constant conversations about projects and such that we are working on. These are not seen a lot because they involve requests from other National Staff or CAPNHQ. I can tell you that our band of Historical Enthusiasts are very busy and active during the entire year. We stretch our skills from within the Historical field to others where we may also be needed or wanted.

The CAP National Historical Staff and the CAP Historical Foundation have separate bodies that govern them. CAP Historical Staff and the CAPHF have two different but important missions. CAP National Staff is concerned with the preservation and sharing of the information about CAP and its members and the CAPHF is more along the lines of promoting CAP History and trying to bring it to others attention that may not be a member of the organization. These are simplified descriptions but the gist is accurate.

I can only speak for myself but I have spent MANY long hours on a lot of CAP related history in the previous year, most of it the general members may not see, some they will when it is cleared by CAPNHQ and CAP National Staff. We also continue to hold classes and breakout sessions about CAP history and suggested programs and guides to help any member or historian. These have been great, what the member chooses to do with this is in their control. I personally have spent 27 hours alone in the last 2 weeks on a project that is not historically related but benefits ALL of our members, there again other members are doing the same types of things. 

The Historical Pamphlet that is referred to has been updated and was released about 6 weeks ago. This can be downloaded for anyone to see if they go to the appropriate page on the CAP members website. We have done a 100% audit on the CAP Collection and every piece and document was accounted for, the folks at NHQ do not maintain the records. The National Collection and records are in secured storage. We have thousands of pages of history and a small staff to try and scan, save, copy or compile this information.

Most members are only aware of a few actual Historical Staff with direct CAP positions, many others work with us and hold other positions within CAP that also take up their time. All of these folks are outstanding members in their own right. You can find out what they are doing if you look for the National Staff report that is done by Col Blascovich yearly at the NB. It may very well change the perception of our historical staff and their efforts. If  you look on their you will see some familiar names and some not so familiar names, we even have those that do the work that choose to stay behind the scenes.

Just a few of the National Staff and SOME of the work they have done:

(National Historian) Col Blascovich, worked with the USS Intrepid Curator and museum director to install and setup a display on the ship. Project went so well they have requested more from CAP. Has researched and supplied info for the history of CAP Governance and the various programs associated with running CAP to NHQ and National Staff.

Research Archivist in the NER has been working on displays and history for the New England Air Museum.

Research and Archivist in the MER has been working on compiling ALL Unit Commendations and Squadrons of merit for as long as they have been recorded. Continues the database build.

Research and Archivist in the MER has been working on an indepth study into the Wing History with recently discovered records and original documents.
(Assistant National Historian) Lt Col Todd Engelman has been working on tracking ALL National Appointments and changes of Command. Including older records before they were put on computer. He has also created an collectors catalog that is over 300 pages long with color pictures similar to the Lousie Morse catalogs.
(Myself) Have scanned, cataloged, and put into publishable format for research most of the older catalogs and monographs. I am looking for the last three catalogs to do and we will have a single source for these older items that can be used.

I have also spent several hundred hours of recording and editing the Learn To Lead audio books for CAPNHQ. These have been received and downloaded several thousand times (appr 3000) by our Cadet and Senior Members alike in the past year. We also have more that will be put on the website itself for use. It has opened the possibility and opportunity for members who otherwise would not have been able to participate. If this had been paid for by CAP then the project just for the first 4 Chapters would have been $80,000. This has been done for free for CAP by a Historian.

I do not have a rant or soap box to stop I just feel that information needs to be out there that shows that our Historical folks are doing more than what you may see.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

MisterCD

#3
Presumably you all do know what the wing and squadron level historians are doing, yes? I see some recognition of what people are doing in NER and MER, but what about NCR, GLR, PCR, RMR, SER, or SWR? Last time I checked, they are also contributing and working, but tend not to have the national historical group give them any recognition. 

Perhaps recognizing and acknowledging the national effort overall instead of just harping upon yourself would provide a more comprehensive answer in response to inquiries here on CAPTalk asking about what the CAP historical program is doing.

James Shaw

Quote from: MisterCD on August 15, 2012, 04:04:28 PM
Presumably you all do know what the wing and squadron level historians are doing, yes? I see some recognition of what people are doing in NER and MER, but what about NCR, GLR, PCR, RMR, SER, or SWR? Last time I checked, they are also contributing and working, but tend not to have the national historical group give them any recognition. 

There are alot of efforts all around CAP and I only mentioned a few not all.

The Wings have to submit the individual historians in their respective wings for any sort of recognition or award. We send out these requests every year just like any other program would such as PAO or CP. This is the same for Historian of the Year, they have to go through the Wing and Region first. This is no different than any other program.

Quote from: MisterCD on August 15, 2012, 04:04:28 PM
Perhaps recognizing and acknowledging the national effort overall instead of just harping upon yourself would provide a more comprehensive answer in response to inquiries here on CAPTalk asking about what the CAP historical program is doing.

If you look at the description you will see just that. I mention several times about others efforts and not mine alone. It is a team effort. I can only speak of my specific efforts and not the specifics of others.

Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

RiverAux

Quote from: caphistorian on August 15, 2012, 03:11:17 PM
The Historical Pamphlet that is referred to has been updated and was released about 6 weeks ago.
Actually, I was referring to was CAPP5 not the Historian Specialty track handbook.  The updated specialty track is an improvement.

QuoteThere are interactions between the various Historical folks more than you see on paper.
Based on what I hear from our Wing Historian he hasn't heard from either the regional or national historian in over a year (actually has never heard from the region historian).  In fact, he was very surprised to learn of the updated specialty track pamphlet because no one had told him about it. 

AdAstra

Jim:

Both BillB and RiverAux's questions dealt with the unit historian and unit histories, and you did not address that. CAPP 5 (22 years old!) deals with the annual wing history. The new CAPR 210-1 also only addresses national, region and wing histories. To echo BillB, there is no guidance for unit-level historians.

It is indeed daunting for an unit-level historian (and even wing historian!), and I admit to slamming the book several times and giving up before I ever put pen to paper. In fact, an annual unit history is not required. According to  CAPR 210-1, para 6b: [Wings should] Encourage the preparation of periodic histories at the group and squadron level.

Should we write unit histories? Of course! To be practical, all the unit historian needs to include are a short narrative of significant events, personnel authorizations, milestone awards, calendar of activities, newsletters, newspaper articles, and a few photos of members or events. When I was Wing Historian, one unit simply stapled and submitted their bi-monthly newsletters. One unit sent a one-sentence letter: we didn't do anything last year (by the time I read it, it was too late to send a note to the Wing Commander suggesting that he de-activate that unit).

Since unit and group historians (and I suspect, many wing historians) are not writing and submitting annual histories, then the National Historical Staff does not know what we're doing out here in the field. In addition to the annual histories, I keep finding very interesting innovations started by local members out beyond the pale.

Each year, I do look for the National Historian's Report. Several accomplishments and projects have been reported over several years. I thank all of the National Historical Staff for their time and efforts. But I have questions:
     > When will we see the inventory of the CAP Collection?
     > When will we see the collection of old catalogs and monographs you mentioned? (I have a complete set, so please let me know what you are missing and I will scan them for you)
     > 2-3 years ago, a history CD (artwork? documents?) was supposedly sent to each wing historian. How can we can a copy?
     > When will the annual CAP Histories be made available?
     > When will Bill Schell's insignia catalog be made available?
     > When will Bill Schell's insignia display be brought out of storage and displayed again?

Suggestions:
    > Create a CAP pamphlet "Guide for Unit Historians"
    > Make widely available the notes and slides from the history workshops at the Annual Conference
    > Scan and share copies of the old "Hysterical Newsletter"
    > Scan and share copies of the sundry short historical articles written by Col Blascovich. I've found quite a few (history of IACE, drill comp, emblems, etc.), but they are undated and un-numbered, so I have no idea how may there are.

There are more suggestions, but I offer that there a number of us willing to assist on one or more of these projects.
Charles Wiest

James Shaw

#7
Quote from: AdAstra on August 15, 2012, 06:04:37 PM
Jim:

Both BillB and RiverAux's questions dealt with the unit historian and unit histories, and you did not address that. CAPP 5 (22 years old!) deals with the annual wing history. The new CAPR 210-1 also only addresses national, region and wing histories. To echo BillB, there is no guidance for unit-level historians.

It is indeed daunting for an unit-level historian (and even wing historian!), and I admit to slamming the book several times and giving up before I ever put pen to paper. In fact, an annual unit history is not required. According to  CAPR 210-1, para 6b: [Wings should] Encourage the preparation of periodic histories at the group and squadron level.

Thanks for the response and I will address as many as I can within my lunch time.

I have presented a historical guide for suggestions at many of the conferences I have been to. This is not an official publication just some suggestions for Units as well as higher levels. I would be more than happy to send or attach for anyone to use. I have done this for several years in a row. I do actively encourage every historian to do unit level research and go from there. 

Quote from: AdAstra on August 15, 2012, 06:04:37 PM
     > When will we see the inventory of the CAP Collection?
     > When will we see the collection of old catalogs and monographs you mentioned? (I have a complete set, so please let me know what you are missing and I will scan them for you)
     > 2-3 years ago, a history CD (artwork? documents?) was supposedly sent to each wing historian. How can we can a copy?
     > When will the annual CAP Histories be made available?
     > When will Bill Schell's insignia catalog be made available?
     > When will Bill Schell's insignia display be brought out of storage and displayed again?

Suggestions:
    > Create a CAP pamphlet "Guide for Unit Historians"
    > Make widely available the notes and slides from the history workshops at the Annual Conference
    > Scan and share copies of the old "Hysterical Newsletter"
    > Scan and share copies of the sundry short historical articles written by Col Blascovich. I've found quite a few (history of IACE, drill comp, emblems, etc.), but they are undated and un-numbered, so I have no idea how may there are.

There are more suggestions, but I offer that there a number of us willing to assist on one or more of these projects.

1) We will have part of the collection for viewing at the NB, we cant bring the entire collection but it will be a good sampling of the items.

2) I need three more of the hard copies to complete the collection. The copies I have are more than likley 30th generation and look terrible to scan. I requested that any member that had a copy to send to me on CAPTalk many months ago. I did not receive any responses or offers.

•Cat. No. 416A CIVIL AIR PATROL UNIT PATCHES -VOLUME I
•Cat. No. 416B CIVIL AIR PATROL UNIT PATCHES - VOLUME II
•Cat. No. 416C CIVIL AIR PATROL UNIT PATCHES - VOLUME III

3) The CD's were given to the respective Wing Commanders at the NB along with a CD with the PDF of the Flying Minute Men. They were also handed out to those folks that showed up for the Historians Sessions at several conferences.

4) Are you talking about the Annual Reports to Congress for the Annual Reports?

5) The catalog I speak of is being written by Lt Col Todd Engelman, he is not done with it. The last count was at 300 pages I believe.

6) Again we are going to have some of the colleciton at the NB.

7) We don't have a Guide for Unit Historians but perhaps I can modify mine for that purpose or as you stated get input from other historians. I have no quams with that.

8) I will share what I have from the conference with no problems.

9) This is current project I am working on after Col Blascovich sent me the entire collection of them. I could take the easy road and do high pass on the copier in B/W but I want to do color on the ones that have color and it takes longer to do that.

10) Good idea, Col Blascovich is working on the very thing now.

I have attached a few of the tools that I offered at the conferences for those that attended.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

BillB

Jim Shaw addressed most of the points I originally made. But what I see is a total roadblock of information up AND down the chain of command for Historians. How many knew of the efforts of the National staff in the Catalog Todd Engelman is working on or the list of unit citations. (Florida Wing has no idea how many clasps on the ribbon since they are not sure of both their and Regions Commendations)
Perhaps a column in THE VOLUNTEER in each issue of what National Staff is working on, or updates from Wings would open the lines of communictions. I saw a post by Jim Shaw several months ago asking if people had copies of some materials. And according to his recent post, nobody offered to send copies.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

RiverAux

Agree about the total lack of communication from the national historical staff.  Way more stuff has been discussed here than has made it through official channels.

GroundHawg

I have a BA in History. I submitted a monthly report to my wing historian for 14 months. I never recieved any type of feedback or even an acknowledgement of receipt. So I quit. I still write it up, and print it out, and put it in my file.

I also have some CAP Patches Ive collected and earned since 1990 that I have not seen anywhere else. I tried to submit these pics and go nowhere fast.

As far as NHQ Historian staff, I will state that Im not pleased with at least one of you over the whole squadron patch approval drama that Ive dealt with recently. I know that some of NHQ types read this, and what ever new procedures you have to approve patches, you need to put it in writing, as in a ICL or reg of some type.


RiverAux

NHQ has nothing to do with squadron patch approval. 

BillB

Squadron patches are appoved by the Wing Commander, Not region or National
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Eclipse

Quote from: BillB on August 15, 2012, 11:01:34 PM
Squadron patches are appoved by the Wing Commander, Not region or National

+1 There's been a lot of people who misinterpret the requirement to send a patch to NHQ as meaning there is any approval authority
in this regard.

"That Others May Zoom"

ol'fido

I would like to see a guide on archival techniques, document/photo preservation, storage and media rotation, etc. I feel that too many of our unit historians have no real idea how to store their history materials properly. This need not be a full conservatory manual but more along the lines of a geneaologist's guide.

Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

AdAstra

There are quite few resources readily available from National Archives and Records Administration, Society of American Archivists, and others. A number are free or low cost (and a number are in the $100 plus range). There's really no reason for CAP to re-write this book.

I can PM you tomorrow, or post a list here if others are interested.

Remember, the job of the unit historian is very, very short-term and they really shouldn't be too concerned about long-term archival storage. The first and most important challenge for the unit historian is to make sure this year's records aren't summarily condemned to the dustbin!
Charles Wiest

MisterCD

It is worthwhile to also talk with a state archive (if a wing historian at least) to arrange for the donation of records and photographs to them. This ensures their long-term preservation and security, and (if space is a factor), they free up room at headquarters.  Should anyone need to look at the records again, people will know exactly where to find what.  This keeps the records in state, secure, and accessible to CAP and the general public who might want to research CAP and publish about them. 

This nonsense about "we're the best kept secret" is largely self-inflicted, but it doesn't have continue in perpetuity. Publish and make sure archives and libraries have copies, and the CAP story will reach a larger audience, if not now then down the road.

GroundHawg

Quote from: RiverAux on August 15, 2012, 10:16:57 PM
NHQ has nothing to do with squadron patch approval.

Yeah, not according to NHQ.

The following is from an email about this situation from a member of NHQ Staff.

"At the winter 2012 National Board we established the office of CAP heraldry, this will appear in upcoming regulations that the office of heraldry will review all patches and submit their recommendations to the approving authority.

We are trying to reestablish like the Air Force and like CAP prior to 2002 that National Headquarters has input and possibly the final approval on all unit patches. As discussed at the National Board what we wear on BDU uniforms reflects and must fit the same profile as worn by CAP – Air Force blue uniform. "


BillB

As one of the former National Historian Staff told me, we are dealing with volunteers. I agree and in the majority of cases a Historian that has no knolwedge of archives or document storage and cataloging. There currently is little to guide a new Historian in Oral History interviewing, methods of  researching early Squadron history, in other words an effective history program. There is one regulation CAPR 210-1, plus CAPP 5 and CAPP 223 to provide guidance to a historian who chances are has no kowledge of a historical program. Chances are he/she doesn't even know when their Squadron was organized if it has been in existance for over 25 years. The records don't exist. As a volunteer with job and family they don't have the time to learn what amounts to an Associate Degree in History to develop a Squadron history program.
There needs to be more guidance from Wing and National levels and annual one day or weekend Wing level conferences for Historians outside of Wing general Conferences. Mostly there needs to be better communications up and down the COC, keeping in mind a Squadron Historian is in a support position and can go directly to Wing, Region or even National Historian staff. 
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

ol'fido

This is somewhat my situation. I knew my squadron dated from the 60's, but I had only anecdotal stories and information to support that until I got what a box of old scrapbook pages with photos attached, loose photos, and a few letters and documents. It had been passed down from a previous commander. Other stuff I had started collecting long ago for my own interest.

I have a BA in History myself but I have never worked in the field professionally. I like to feel that I have a better appreciation for what is historically significant. Plus, I tend to save things anyway as I am a bit of a pack rat. But, I have literally cringed at hearing what some people(who should know better) have thrown away because it was "old records and junk" or "the regs say to destroy it after 5 years".

I would like to see more guidance to the historians on what is important to keep, what SHOULD be destroyed, and how to store it. Moreover, what to do with it if they leave, are reassigned, or the unit folds.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

RiverAux

I couldn't agree more with forgetting about trying to store historical materials at the squadron or wing levels -- they WILL GET TOSSED OUT OR LOST.  They should go directly to real archives for storage by real archivists where they would actually be available for use by real historians. 

MisterCD

I have already encountered this situation, but does not have a monopoly on poor organizational history.  This problem has been constant in every organization with whom I have provided my historian services.  I have support behind me to organize a massive donation of older wing records to the state archive with the intention of creating a CAP collection. The records will be digitized with a copy at wing HQ (and probably online), but the originals safely in the hands of professionals with the financial resources and trained personnel to manage things. 

No, I am not a formally trained archivist (I am as a historian), but as Charlie Wiest noted previously, the resources are out there to learn and acquire a degree of skill and knowledge.  I luckily have the fall back of a network of professional archivists and museum curators to turn to information when facing a dilemma or two.

Eclipse

I would say the whole lot of it should be collected and stored at the wing or higher level.

They will be the only ones with the resources to store it properly, and are going to be the lowest echelon with enough continuity
to avoid "Frank's basement" and "Mary's attic".

The answer is probably something akin to the WBP (WHP?) for historical artifacts.  Unit could check it out, display it, whatever, but everything would
be tracked by wing and collected later.  You could just add it to ORMS.

As to the attention History gets, it's just a matter of manpower and time.  For every unit with a Historian, there are 20 without, and
when the wing is working to keep the planes flying and the members engaged, not to mention trying to find commanders to serve now, it's hard to be too concerned about who the CC was 30 years ago.

"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux

You're forgeting that in many cases "Wing" IS Frank's basement in terms of their ability to store old records, photos, or artifacts. 

Eclipse

Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 03:07:58 AM
You're forgeting that in many cases "Wing" IS Frank's basement in terms of their ability to store old records, photos, or artifacts.

Granted, but wing is most likely to have the more permanent, larger facilities, and be the least transient.
Though I know in some wings Wing HQ moves when the CC changes.

"That Others May Zoom"

Private Investigator

Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 03:07:58 AM
You're forgeting that in many cases "Wing" IS Frank's basement in terms of their ability to store old records, photos, or artifacts.

Any Wing in that situation should get guidance from Region. 

Every Wing is in a different situation so if Wing HQ is not a good storage site is a Group or Squadron facility a better choice? Some Units are in a better situation than Wing or Region HQ.

Private Investigator

Quote from: BillB on August 16, 2012, 01:16:44 AMThere is one regulation CAPR 210-1, plus CAPP 5 and CAPP 223 to provide guidance to a historian who chances are has no kowledge of a historical program.


There needs to be more guidance from Wing and National levels and annual one day or weekend Wing level conferences for Historians outside of Wing general Conferences. Mostly there needs to be better communications up and down the COC, keeping in mind a Squadron Historian is in a support position and can go directly to Wing, Region or even National Historian staff.

Two good points. The one thing about our Professional Development program is that Squadron's have a wide range of ability. A Squadron Historian with a Tech rating may really know a lot compared to another Squadron Historian with a Master rating. It was not only Historians, when I was an IG it was obvious in some Squadrons they gave away Master ratings to people/volunteers who really did not know their assignment, IMHO.

Their should be workshops for Historians similar to those for PAOs.

Cliff_Chambliss

I believe the University of Texas started a program a few years ago encouraging Vietnam Veterans to record their personal stories.  I do not know if the program is still ongoing but seemed to be a wonderful living history project from actual participants.

In my own squadron we have a member, who if CAP used Navy terms, could be considered a "Plank Owner" as he was a CAP Cadet the day CAP came into existance.  We have another member who has been active in CAP since 1946, 2 Fifty Year Members, and a senior member who started as a cadet in the same Squadron in the early 1960's.

There are tales (some maybe even true), and photos of people and activities of days gone by.  However, people are a finite resource and have an "expiration date", and when that happens unless their history has been captured it is lost forever.

I am sure there are many other squadrons with equally interesting members, and wouldn't it be nice if the CAP made an effort to contact and record these living histories before they are lost?
 
11th Armored Cavalry Regiment
2d Armored Cavalry Regiment
3d Infantry Division
504th BattleField Surveillance Brigade

ARMY:  Because even the Marines need heros.    
CAVALRY:  If it were easy it would be called infantry.

AdAstra

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
I believe the University of Texas started a program a few years ago encouraging Vietnam Veterans to record their personal stories.  I do not know if the program is still ongoing but seemed to be a wonderful living history project from actual participants.


Take a look at the Library of Congress Veterans History Projecthttp://www.loc.gov/vets/. I had a change to drop by their office last year and was very impressed. This year, an acquaintance who works in the LOC came across an oral history by an early CAP member. As a result, she successfully requested the addition of "CAP" in the list of categories. That will make it easier for us to search the catalog. I know that one of the local university libraries has an extensive and very well-regarded oral history program; I've search their on-line catalog for "CAP", but no luck so far.

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
wouldn't it be nice if the CAP made an effort to contact and record these living histories before they are lost?
 

But Cliff, CAP does have an oral history program. To quote from the Book of Pogo: It is Us. Use CAPP 6, CAP Oral History Self-Study Guide. "CAP" is certainly not going to send someone down from the National historical staff to do it. Grab a tape recorder, prepare a list of "lead-off" questions, and sit down with these members. What about getting a couple of history-minded cadets involved? Or go to you local college and find an interested history major to conduct the oral interviews.

I know that CAP has collected oral interviews, but I haven't heard anything about the program in years and don't know what the current status is. Any comment from Jim Shaw? I have a list of Call Numbers for several interesting-sounding CAP interviews at the AF Historical Research Agency, but so far they're somewhere on my "To Do List"....
Charles Wiest

BillB

Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

AdAstra

Quote from: caphistorian on August 15, 2012, 07:41:29 PM

4) Are you talking about the Annual Reports to Congress for the Annual Reports?


The Annual Reports to Congress (which I've always assumed were prepared by the National Headquarters Staff, not the volunteer historical staff) are all available online. I was referring to the Annual Histories prepared by the National Historian. I found one two-volume set (cannot remember for what year) in the Air University's Fairchild Library, a tantalizing taste of what's in the history from other years.
Charles Wiest

Eclipse

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM...wouldn't it be nice if the CAP made an effort to contact and record these living histories before they are lost?


"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux

The oral history guide is fairly good, but again storage of the information is the issue. 

Eclipse

Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 08:42:16 PM
The oral history guide is fairly good, but again storage of the information is the issue.

Disk space is essentially free, and MP3s are small.  A Dropbox account or Google Drive would store a whole unit's history, with a few copies on DVD
for good measure.  Same goes for the "documents".  I suppose people see value in holding actual paper, but to share and exhibit,
scans are just as good.

"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux

Yes, but maintaining control of online storage space at the squadron or wing level is just as problematic as paper documents.  You can not trust volunteers with permanent maintenance of anything.

Eclipse

#35
Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 08:49:07 PM
Yes, but maintaining control of online storage space at the squadron or wing level is just as problematic as paper documents.  You can not trust volunteers with permanent maintenance of anything.

True enough - perhaps the ultimate control should be at NHQ.  You have to draw the line somewhere, and the local unit is probably the least preferred choice.

The other thing is standards - when I said ".mp3" above, 4 people immediately said "Proprietary!, they should be .ogg!".

That would be the next "war".  Common sense would have everything in .mp3, .pdf, and .jpg, but we'll have all sorts of "opinions" about using proprietary
formats, commercial software, and non-free encoders.

"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич


MisterCD

Quote from: AdAstra on August 16, 2012, 07:32:15 PM
Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
I believe the University of Texas started a program a few years ago encouraging Vietnam Veterans to record their personal stories.  I do not know if the program is still ongoing but seemed to be a wonderful living history project from actual participants.


Take a look at the Library of Congress Veterans History Projecthttp://www.loc.gov/vets/. I had a change to drop by their office last year and was very impressed. This year, an acquaintance who works in the LOC came across an oral history by an early CAP member. As a result, she successfully requested the addition of "CAP" in the list of categories. That will make it easier for us to search the catalog. I know that one of the local university libraries has an extensive and very well-regarded oral history program; I've search their on-line catalog for "CAP", but no luck so far.

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
wouldn't it be nice if the CAP made an effort to contact and record these living histories before they are lost?
 

But Cliff, CAP does have an oral history program. To quote from the Book of Pogo: It is Us. Use CAPP 6, CAP Oral History Self-Study Guide. "CAP" is certainly not going to send someone down from the National historical staff to do it. Grab a tape recorder, prepare a list of "lead-off" questions, and sit down with these members. What about getting a couple of history-minded cadets involved? Or go to you local college and find an interested history major to conduct the oral interviews.

I know that CAP has collected oral interviews, but I haven't heard anything about the program in years and don't know what the current status is. Any comment from Jim Shaw? I have a list of Call Numbers for several interesting-sounding CAP interviews at the AF Historical Research Agency, but so far they're somewhere on my "To Do List"....

I have published two CAP oral histories this year.  They are posted online, in an OHWG version (only difference is I added in images as the regs do not have a provision for this) and you can download the PDFs. 

http://www.ohwg.cap.gov/wing-historian/oralinterviewwithohwgcoastalpatrolveterancarlejividen

http://www.ohwg.cap.gov/wing-historian/oralinterviewwithohwgcoastalpatrolveteranrobertearn

MisterCD

Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 08:49:07 PM
Yes, but maintaining control of online storage space at the squadron or wing level is just as problematic as paper documents.  You can not trust volunteers with permanent maintenance of anything.

Digital is nice, but the hard copy (paper) documents are a more viable format for long term storage.  You usually don't have to update your software to read a piece of paper.  What about the different media of storage?  I reiterate my view that since squadron and wing headquarters can be transient and records can take up valuable space, that people look to their state archives.  Keep the history in the state. If they go to a state archive, they will be logged into databases which are often online.  Nothing is more frustrating than receiving emails asking for specific information only to tell them "wing threw away the records," "rain destroyed them," "someone claims to have the records but they are unavailable," or "they are in storage in another state and they cannot be accessed."  The latter I direct to the response about sending the records to region or NHQ.  Keep them in the state, and then you can access them with a greater efficiency than if deposited hundreds of miles away.

BillB

Digital vs hard copy.....Look at the history of visual communications. For 50 years, 16mm film was the standard of home movies and early television presentation and news. Then came 8mm for home while 16mm remained for professional use. In the early 1970's a change started for TV production with TV stations using 2 inch video tape for production and 3/4 inch video tape for news. In the late 1980's TV switched to Betacam formats in many areas while others retained 3/4 inch video tape for production. Also in use was 8mm video tape and the start of digital memory. Today you will not find a TV station with 2 inch, 3/4 inch, 8mm players to even be able to transfer their old video libraries. So how can a CAP Squadron maintain their visual materials. It requires transferring old materials to the current recording systems.
CAP has most all of the original USAF films on CAP to be transferred. But to what medium? With still photograph negatives there is the same problem. The old Kodachrome film colors fade.. The same applies to AgfaColor, Ektachrome and the other films from the last century if you can't find a paper to make prints since the papers haven't been made for 20 years. So hard copies of photos in a file cabinet is best way to maintain a visual record of a Squadron.
While this post may ramble, you can see that the technology of 1945 can't to a great extent carry over to 2012. A continuing effort to upgrade visual material of historic value should be conducted at all levels.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

flyboy53

Touting edcuational backgrounds is taking this post off context, so I'm not going to bother boring people.

I have a senior rating as a historian and currently serve at Group level....but I was also an assistant group historian and later subordinate unit historian on active duty and in the Air Force Reserve.

And yes, I did file a two volume document, according to regulation, this year for the group I'm assigned to.

I find the problem with the history program is that it is overwhelming for anyone under wing level and a lot of stuff goes unreported. NHQ needs to come up with a standard form or report format that a surbordinate unit historian can complete annually and submit to higher headquarters. Air Force subordinate unit historians used to file a two-page written report quarterly to the wing historian that is filed as an attachment with the formal wing history.

I also don't know who many times, the historian is never copied in any reports or records are just shredded before the historian gets a chance to see if it's important.

The other thing that drives me nuts is that squadrons are really teritorial about historical archives. I don't know how many times I've learned of a WW II unit scrap book or some other historial piece that gets taken home and is "guarded" by someone who won't share it with others. Then when that person passes away or quits, that document is lost forever...or something shows up on public display that nobody knew about. I have known of two squadrons -- one in New York and the other in Pennsylvania that are just that way. And there seems to be relative arrogance between NHQ History or Foundation people and subordinate units. Try to get one of them to return an e-mail.

tarheel gumby

Also another problem faced by unit historians is that the wings don't have any idea of what to do with an active Historian.
Joseph Myers Maj. CAP
Squadron Historian MER NC 019
Historian MER NC 001
Historian MER 001

ol'fido

How many times have historically significant photos been destroyed or deleted by over-eager PAOs who didn't want to put out a photo that wasn't "acceptable" for their use because of "uniform issues" or other reasons. At our recent encampment, I told the PAOs that I wanted a copy of all their photos: edited and unedited. Our PAOs there got it and readily agreed.

Just another example of a "roadblock" to an effective history program.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Private Investigator

Quote from: ol'fido on August 17, 2012, 11:58:02 PM
How many times have historically significant photos been destroyed or deleted by over-eager PAOs who didn't want to put out a photo that wasn't "acceptable" for their use because of "uniform issues" or other reasons. At our recent encampment, I told the PAOs that I wanted a copy of all their photos: edited and unedited. Our PAOs there got it and readily agreed.

Just another example of a "roadblock" to an effective history program.

How about the new member who wants to clean house. We had a Group Admin Officer (2 1/2 years in CAP) that was filling up a large trashcan. I saw the yearbook from last year's Encampment in the trash so I asked him about it and he was indifferent. He basically purged everything that was not important to him.

We do need to educate the membership about historical value.

Eclipse

#44
An encampment yearbook would not be a random Group Historian's responsibility, that would fall on the wing being encampments are wing activities.

A unit or group keeping every scrap of paper from every activity one of its members attends is going to be under a pile no one will ever look at. Something I've had to deal with more than once.

There's a weird phenomena in CAP that some members think anything they are done with that is remotely related to aviation, anything ever printed or produced with the English language letters "P", "C" or "A" included, and anything they have ever done in life, CAP related or not, should end up at a squadron HQ or in their member file.

The result is generally a dumpster full of stuff no one cares about, not related to CAP, and dustier then the martian surface, with a wailing and gnashing of teeth when you suggest that 10 year old "Flying" magazines can be tossed (etc.).

"That Others May Zoom"

AdAstra

Quote from: tarheel gumby on August 17, 2012, 11:00:30 PM
Also another problem faced by unit historians is that the wings don't have any idea of what to do with an active Historian.

My first reaction was to give you comfort and consolation: yes, we historians are ignored and.... But looking at your signature block, you're also working at wing and region levels. So what do you do with active unit historians?
     > Acknowledge that you've received their annual unit history?
     > Respond to questions and inquiries?
     > Actively seek them out and introduce yourself?
     > Encourage and mentor them?
     > Offer a seminar at the wing conference?
     > Write guidelines for the annual unit history?
     > Ask for their assistance in research or writing projects?

Just a few ideas off the top of my head. Any other suggestions to add?
Charles Wiest

AdAstra

Quote from: ol'fido on August 17, 2012, 11:58:02 PM
How many times have historically significant photos been destroyed or deleted by over-eager PAOs who didn't want to put out a photo that wasn't "acceptable" for their use because of "uniform issues" or other reasons. At our recent encampment, I told the PAOs that I wanted a copy of all their photos: edited and unedited. Our PAOs there got it and readily agreed.

Just another example of a "roadblock" to an effective history program.

My mantra with PAOs is: you successfully recorded and shared our unit's activities, awards and accomplishments during the year. Thank you. On 1 January it becomes "history" and the unit historian is responsible for preserving it.

Warning to CAP historians: CAPR 10-2 (Files Maintenance and Records Disposition) is our enemy! We've all known the zealots who toss out files the very day they "expire". And as Eclipse pointed out, those zealots who save everything.

CAPR 10-2 only mentions "records of historical significance" without offering any guidance whatsoever.

Early in this thread, the talk turned to offering our "archives" to some state-level institution to lovingly preserve and watch over. The term "archives" connotes something of value to be treasured. But it's just "stuff", something that we may treasure but others may not. So, Private Investigator, it's OK to toss out that extra copy of the encampment yearbook, right? I'll waffle: maybe.

So what do we save? Remember, every archive is limited by physical storage space available; area of of interest; manpower; and of course, the cost to organize, maintain and store it. We all acknowledge CAP's limited resources in these areas: small, local, one, and none.

Focusing on the unit historian, what tells the story of our unit, its accomplishments, activities and members? Personnel authorizations and org charts, promotions and awards, newsletters, newspaper articles, photographs, after action reports, and yes, maybe that encampment yearbook if it highlighted unit members. Ask yourself what you would like to know about your unit 10 or 20 years ago. It may not be much different than what unit members would like to know 10-20 years from now. That's what you save.
Charles Wiest

Eclipse

Quote from: AdAstra on August 18, 2012, 11:25:09 PM
So what do we save? Remember, every archive is limited by physical storage space available;

Virtualization negates physical space. 

Scanning and photographing things preserves the information and memory without taking any physical space - we've taken
to doing that with the kids' schoolwork and art projects.  A few gems are kept, the rest is scanned or photographed and then tossed.

They will have lots of memories, few of which will be in our attic.

"That Others May Zoom"

MisterCD

#48
Quote from: AdAstra on August 18, 2012, 11:25:09 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 17, 2012, 11:58:02 PM
How many times have historically significant photos been destroyed or deleted by over-eager PAOs who didn't want to put out a photo that wasn't "acceptable" for their use because of "uniform issues" or other reasons. At our recent encampment, I told the PAOs that I wanted a copy of all their photos: edited and unedited. Our PAOs there got it and readily agreed.

Just another example of a "roadblock" to an effective history program.

CAPR 10-2 only mentions "records of historical significance" without offering any guidance whatsoever.

Early in this thread, the talk turned to offering our "archives" to some state-level institution to lovingly preserve and watch over. The term "archives" connotes something of value to be treasured. But it's just "stuff", something that we may treasure but others may not. So, Private Investigator, it's OK to toss out that extra copy of the encampment yearbook, right? I'll waffle: maybe.

So what do we save? Remember, every archive is limited by physical storage space available; area of of interest; manpower; and of course, the cost to organize, maintain and store it. We all acknowledge CAP's limited resources in these areas: small, local, one, and none.

Focusing on the unit historian, what tells the story of our unit, its accomplishments, activities and members? Personnel authorizations and org charts, promotions and awards, newsletters, newspaper articles, photographs, after action reports, and yes, maybe that encampment yearbook if it highlighted unit members. Ask yourself what you would like to know about your unit 10 or 20 years ago. It may not be much different than what unit members would like to know 10-20 years from now. That's what you save.

Value is subjective to the person then who selects items, versus the researcher years or decades later who attempts to piece together what was.  At the moment, the bulk of CAP history trends to antiquarian aspects such as uniforms, insignia, and personalities.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, but then come the aspects of policies, plans, operations, funding, government relations (state and federal).  How much information on the latter is saved?  Seemingly very little record-wise that does not find its way into a newspaper article or unit newsletter. The records pertaining to these aspects of CAP are not necessarily the records that a PAO would save, but a unit historian should. 

Hence the matter of becomes fighting the battle of "access" to convince staff members that it is important to cut the squadron/group/wing historian in on the decision making so it can be properly documented.  It took writing an annual wing history and letting people know that their decisions and actions in essence never happened in record unless they provide the historian with something to write about and record for various staff members to finally share information with me. 

One cannot save anything, but an important consideration is what you as a historian would use to write a history of an event or organization, and then what primary sources pertinent to this written secondary document can and should be saved.  The annual wing histories provide one outlet for this, with the second volume including the source records.  If facing matters of space and storage of records, publishing a block of primary documents in a white paper and then distributing this tome to an archive or certain members of the organization (taking OPSEC into account), this provides an orderly and hopefully accessible means to record the past. More importantly, this provide a demonstrable example for fellow members to learn what is considered important to the unit historian so they have a guide for what to funnel to the historian.

As for those people talking about scanning, I just spent 6 hours last night scanning several years of wing histories.  Scanning is all well and good, but when trying to cover decades of backlogged material and a program devoid of a history for almost two decades that it can drive someone batty.

Quote from: tarheel gumby on August 17, 2012, 11:00:30 PM
Also another problem faced by unit historians is that the wings don't have any idea of what to do with an active Historian.

A solid observation. I tend to take the offensive, shifting from what the wing can do for me, and more of what I can do for the wing.  The Congressional Gold Medal effort has thus been my focus.  The histories I have written, web-work, insignia, etc. are all oriented to bringing attention to the fact that yes, the wing has a historian again, but also working with the PAO and Government Relations to bring attention to the CGM effort.  Documents tailored specifically for the wing's involvement in World War II brought both senators to co-sponsor the legislation in Congress and brought a slew of current and former wing members to contact me with records, artifacts, and information to further document the past and promote the wing to the general public.  This has brought me into contact and interaction with Cadet Programs and Recruiting and Retention to bring in new members and keep others in the program.  I haven't touched on AE, but I pass information on to them as well for their work.  The more I publicize what I have and can do with the past, the more the aspects of the present see the utility and capability that a historian can provide.

ol'fido

I like the idea of a unit history that is something like what Robin Olds described in his bio, "Fighter Pilot".

While serving as an exchange officer right after WWII with an RAF squadron, one of the first things they had him do was to go through the "bumpf". Basically, these were the squadron's scrapbooks that dated back to the beginnings of the unit that were even before the RAF and the RFC to when it was a balloon observation unit about the time of our Civil War.

These scrapbooks, and there were several apparently, were maintained by the squadron adjutant(admin officer in our case) and recorded the significant events of the squadron in chronological order from the beginning to the present day. They included transfers in and out, change of commands, mission reports, photos, etc. If you want to know what else, read the book.

Olds felt that these conveyed a better sense of the history of the unit than did a dry, packaged, and polished statistical report that passes for unit histories in a lot of CAP and the USAF. They also gave new members of the unit a sense that they were now a part of something larger than themselves and that they could become a part of that history. It also reminded them that they had a lot to live up to thanks to those that went before them.

That's what history should be. It should be a tool to allow us learn from and live up to. It should make us feel pride in our unit and what it has accomplished and make us want to contribute even more to its "story".
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

AdAstra

Quote from: ol'fido on August 19, 2012, 02:27:20 AM

Olds felt that these conveyed a better sense of the history of the unit than did a dry, packaged, and polished statistical report that passes for unit histories in a lot of CAP and the USAF. They also gave new members of the unit a sense that they were now a part of something larger than themselves and that they could become a part of that history. It also reminded them that they had a lot to live up to thanks to those that went before them.

That's what history should be. It should be a tool to allow us learn from and live up to. It should make us feel pride in our unit and what it has accomplished and make us want to contribute even more to its "story".

Well said! When I speak to CAP groups and when I set up my annual display, I insist on referring to "CAP Heritage." For many, "history" suggests rote memorization of dates and names, but it should be far more than that. We have a proud legacy left to us by our predecessors, and we should learn all we can. It is constantly changing even as we watch; realize that our actions and accomplishments add to this legacy. And be aware that we have an obligation to carefully preserve this heritage and pass it along to our successors.
Charles Wiest

jimmydeanno

Quote from: Eclipse on August 18, 2012, 07:22:03 PM
An encampment yearbook would not be a random Group Historian's responsibility, that would fall on the wing being encampments are wing activities.

A unit or group keeping every scrap of paper from every activity one of its members attends is going to be under a pile no one will ever look at. Something I've had to deal with more than once.

There's a weird phenomena in CAP that some members think anything they are done with that is remotely related to aviation, anything ever printed or produced with the English language letters "P", "C" or "A" included, and anything they have ever done in life, CAP related or not, should end up at a squadron HQ or in their member file.

The result is generally a dumpster full of stuff no one cares about, not related to CAP, and dustier then the martian surface, with a wailing and gnashing of teeth when you suggest that 10 year old "Flying" magazines can be tossed (etc.).

Are you sure we haven't been in the same squadron?
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

FLWG Historian

Two people assigned to the National level in history does NOT cut it. (If there are more they have taken a very low profile). I maintain the History program has been undermanned for decades. The History Program needs people that inspire and move beyond "one community projects"  to a National Program with depth and outreach. In part  the Foundation might have been the vehicle for doing that but you have to go to them which isn't exactly out reach. Yes we all excel in our little areas (mine is WWII ASW).  In my own list of personal"failures " a similar string of buried in projects is rampant. All the people that "have the most history" (at least in my WG) are burned out or 2-Bed (some with good cause some not IMHO) and have it in their closet as personal property vice community heritage. I would love to get closure on the fact that CAP provably did not sink any U-boats in WWII. I had a very Senior COL ask me incredulously "Is this really important to you?" How to answer a question I have spent decades studying and have the ground cut out just like that! :'(
In summary the problems with the history Program is that it is too big  for the limited resources it has attracted. Those of us in it up to our necks flail. But would we divert resources from a SAR/ DR mission to history, NOT IN MY LIFE!
With out a valid history program CAP will continue to move away from its routes because it has allowed them to wither in place. I am dissatisfied with myself and with where we sit today Lets all move forward and fix the known weaknesses. Reinforcing our successes is important  going further is critical.
Practically everybody in CAP is doing all they can  :clap: but are we doing it as smart as we can? ;)

James Shaw

Some thoughts: (have more but this is a few)

Recruit those that have professional training in many of the areas people are speaking about and ask them to assist the Historical group in updating much of this information. If they choose to help, request that they be allowed through their respective COC's to assist. We do have a lot of talent out there that are not CAP Historians but have the training and skills that could help move us forward more.

Receive quarterly reports of activities from all respective historians in addition to their required Unit, Wing, or Regional requirements.

Promote Historical Network from Unit level Historians and up. This would be a non-formal collection of CAP Historians from all levels that will actively share their work and support CAP through authorized activities falling with the guidelines of CAP's regulations and pamphlets. Just like PAO's and other specialty track personnel do.

Receive and provide feedback on CAP history related items from the unit level up. This will be separate from their Professional Development submissions they have to do. This would be more of an information exchange than a reporting process. All historians would have to report their work as any other person would have to do to their respective COC's, but provide a dotted line submission process for peer review.

Provide additional support to COC's in clarification and acceptance of papers from Historians for PD credit. 

Encourage and support all CAP Historians in their PD requirements as best as possible and within the scope of their respective COC's.

Provide historical guideline to all historians for their use.

Provide historical preservation guide to all historians for their use.

Establish reporting requirements for CAP Historical Inquiries from NHQ, Reg, Wing, and Unit Level.  A track able system that will help keep up with unit needs and historical support.

Consult with appropriate individuals with respect to any articles, messages, stories received or seen from internal or external resources, such as to respect CAP's status as a 501 (c) (3).

Compile and publish list of authorized and recognized CAP Member Historians. This is so people will know who they are dealing with and what they are doing as part of the historical rank and file.

Confer with CAP Squadrons and the use of related historical materials authorized for websites.

Promote the display and sharing of archive pieces and information for member use. We have many forms of technology that can be used and should utilize them more.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

spacecommand

#54
Quote from: FLWG Historian on September 15, 2012, 02:56:19 PM
Two people assigned to the National level in history does NOT cut it. (If there are more they have taken a very low profile).

According to the Winter National Board Historical Slide (page 3 of the PDF):
http://www.capmembers.com/events/cap_winter_national_board/

There are at least 12 members on the National Historical Staff doing various duties.

The National Historian spot of course now open to be filled.

A lot of work needs to be at the Wing level and the squadron level.  I spoke with the diversity officer about this (the diversity program isn't just about skin color or gender).

Recruiting members to do historical work is hard, and is generally not priority number 1 especially when it comes to Civil Air Patrol, so getting the right people who want to do it is difficult.  It's quite rare to have somone join a unit and say (I want to be a historian vs aircrew/ground team member), so working on converting current members or recruiting new members can be tough.  I pretty much accidentally became a CAP historian, but because I love history and my unit is really old it worked out great for me in the end.  I essentially (like many other unit historians I'm sure) work autonomously doing our best.   But I can understand how difficult it can be to recruit members to be historians. 

Working with Public Affairs is very important, for old and especially new units.  I tell other units to SAVE their  locally produced newsletters and not toss the extras into the trashbin.  Today's news is tomorrows history!

MisterCD

Several people claimed recruiting of myself into CAP, including members of the national historical staff, which is inaccurate.  I largely joined because I enjoy the field, am a veteran who enjoys volunteer work, and saw opportunity to work with folks to at least get the wing history program operational again.

The ideas being floated around are all worthwhile but it seems that what is lacking is a vision.  What does the history program wish to accomplish and how does it intend to integrate itself fully with the organization, on the intra and inter levels?  National historical projects are a means to do this.  There used to be an aircraft marking project, another to identify founding members, and a national historical committee which published several monographs.  There has been an effort to establish a CAP museum and archive, which is a highly commendable effort and one that would go far to benefit the organization, logistical difficulties aside.

A personal opinion I have is one involving the rebirth of the historical committee and an effort to rally people around larger history efforts.  One prominent example is planning and preparing products for the seventy-fifth anniversary.  This sort of event requires planning now, not months before the occasion.   People often inquire about heraldry but the communication on this matter is limited to the knowledge base or postings hereon CAPtalk.  A heraldry committee underneath the history office would not be a difficult undertaking.  Plenty of CAP members collect insignia or publish on the matter.  Presumably they would care to be part of a larger history project to assist in the creation and documentation of past, present, and future unit insignia.

These are just ideas.  Whoever takes up the position can chose to continue the present path, or expand the circle to bring more people into the fold and bring the program to a new level. Improved communication and a climate of nonpartisan cooperation will be paramount to this.

FLWG Historian

Great ides but the hard part is finding people to do complex history projects. We all agree! That is fantastic  :clap: Everybody that has ideas has vision (at least some vision any way :o). Why has this conversation had to come to this outside CAP media forum? IMHO because the "leadership" in the history program did not come inside CAP and ask others to perform. I blame the lapse on overwork and insufficient manpower to accomplish any but one man tasks ie no time to think nor plan, no capacity to absorb the smallest unexpected event. What ever significant progress has only occurred as one person effort and team work did NOT happen.
It would be easy to assign individuals  blame at this point, massive omissions have been made, allegations of misconduct stand resolved in format only but open to absolute suspicion of misconduct. Some mistakes and some misconduct will almost certainly happen in CAP's future.  :'(
The only valid question is where to from here? Every last one of us needs hope for a better future. Even the criminals I have had occasion to meet think towards their future.Only a George Patton could say, after slapping a shell shocked soldier "I wish I had kissed the ...." (historians can shorten the story   >:D) just as we must move on from this point, recover what we can and  move on to better things. ;D