Flight Officer Advanced Promotions

[Always Ready]

Whoa! I came in late on this one. But I'm still going to say a few things.

Insignia problem: How many Brigadier Generals and Major Generals are there in CAP? I don't know and I don't feel like looking it up. But I would assume that there are more FOs than 1 and 2 star Generals in CAP. Then why don't they make all the different types of insignia for FOs? Well according to the person I talked to at Vanguard, NHQ tells them what to make. Requests for grade insignia (like plastic covered) need to be made through NHQ, not Vanguard. For once Vanguard isn't the problem. (While I've gotten to the point I don't care about grade insignia anymore, I may go through official channels this summer to see if I can get this to happen.)

Tracking FO grades by NHQ: See this thread (linky) For those of you who hate to read my rants, here's the short story: NHQ doesn't think there is enough people in the FO grades to track at the National level. If you have a problem with this, use your chain of command to recommend that they change this.

FO Program complaints: If you really want to do something about this, use your chain of command to request NHQ to change the policy. Be professional about it and don't make your proposal look like a *insert word that rhymes with 'witching'* session.

I'm currently a TFO. (If you want to know what I think of the FO program read my previous posts or PM me.) I've been in three different units in three different wings as a FO. I've been with my current unit for eight months. Some people treat me like I am still a cadet officer and some people treat me like they treat every other adult. Most of the pilots don't know what to think of me. My SQ/CC treats me like everyone else (and he's over triple my age). Another person, my parents' age, thinks I should have stayed a cadet, and treats me like a cadet. The cadets think I am the AE god

Here's my advice to FOs who are having problems with people: Act like an adult! Go to all the meetings, do your job, progress in the PD stuff, and learn some tact. If you do all of these things, people will take care of you. What I mean is, you will have less problems during your stint as a FO. Certain problems will not go away anytime soon. Try to stay positive and don't get burnt out on CAP.

[USADOD]

Be nice people.

[BrandonKea]

I think Always Ready about summed it up...  :clap:

[USADOD]

Here's my advice to FOs who are having problems with people: Act like an adult! Go to all the meetings, do your job, progress in the PD stuff, and learn some tact. If you do all of these things, people will take care of you. What I mean is, you will have less problems during your stint as a FO. Certain problems will not go away anytime soon. Try to stay positive and don't get burnt out on CAP.

Agreed.

[Hawk200]

Tracking FO grades by NHQ: See this thread (linky) For those of you who hate to read my rants, here's the short story: NHQ doesn't think there is enough people in the FO grades to track at the National level. If you have a problem with this, use your chain of command to recommend that they change this.

I'm curious as to how many Spaatz recipients we have opposed to Flight Officers. I've met a couple dozen FO's (of various grades). I've only met a handful of cadet Colonels.

[Always Ready]

Tracking FO grades by NHQ: See this thread (linky) For those of you who hate to read my rants, here's the short story: NHQ doesn't think there is enough people in the FO grades to track at the National level. If you have a problem with this, use your chain of command to recommend that they change this.

I'm curious as to how many Spaatz recipients we have opposed to Flight Officers. I've met a couple dozen FO's (of various grades). I've only met a handful of cadet Colonels.

Good question. In my experience, I find that there about as many current Spaatz Cadets as there are FOs, usually less though. But, it doesn't really matter since it is a Cadet promotion. They track all Cadet and Senior promotions (including NCO grades) in eServices except Flight Officers.

A better question to ask would be, "How many SM NCOs are there in CAP compared to FOs?" A friend of mine is a CAP SM NCO and I have met maybe two others.

[BrandonKea]

Tracking FO grades by NHQ: See this thread (linky) For those of you who hate to read my rants, here's the short story: NHQ doesn't think there is enough people in the FO grades to track at the National level. If you have a problem with this, use your chain of command to recommend that they change this.

I'm curious as to how many Spaatz recipients we have opposed to Flight Officers. I've met a couple dozen FO's (of various grades). I've only met a handful of cadet Colonels.

Good question. In my experience, I find that there about as many current Spaatz Cadets as there are FOs, usually less though. But, it doesn't really matter since it is a Cadet promotion. They track all Cadet and Senior promotions (including NCO grades) in eServices except Flight Officers.

A better question to ask would be, "How many SM NCOs are there in CAP compared to FOs?" A friend of mine is a CAP SM NCO and I have met maybe two others.

I'll be honest, I've never seen a CAP SM NCO, I've met 3 to 4 active C/Col's, and I think I've met 5 FO's of varying degrees in my years...

[jimmydeanno]

Hawk,

In regards to commissioning into the AF before 21, it is very feasable, although probably extremely rare.

16 year old going to college, joins ROTC (no commitment until last two years), finishes BA in 3 years would commission at 19.

That's not even some odd program like high school to flight school, etc.

[Bobble]

As illustrated, individuals who are between the age of 18 and 21 and have not participated in the CAP Cadet Program are eligible to be awarded FO status -


CAPR 35-5 21 AUGUST 2008 17

SECTION G - FLIGHT OFFICER GRADES

7-1. General. Only senior members under 21 years of age will be appointed to or promoted to the flight officer grades. This category is designed as a transition for cadets transferring to senior member status and for those senior members who are otherwise eligible for CAP officer grade except that they have not yet reached the minimum age of 21. Upon reaching age 21, the member will be appointed to an appropriate officer grade or will be classified as a senior member without grade until he or she is eligible for promotion to officer grade.


Please note the use of the word "elegible" and the phrasing "...appointed or promoted to the flight officer grades."  It appears that many cadets are under the mistaken impression that the award of FO status, after reaching the age of 18 and changing to "Senior" status, is 'automatic' if they so desire. See below -


CAPR 35-5 21 AUGUST 2008 17

SECTION G - FLIGHT OFFICER GRADES

7-4. Promotion Eligibility Requirements.

a. General.

(3) Leadership qualities. Individuals recommended for promotion to flight officer grade must be occupying positions of supervision or leadership within the unit.


Note the use of the word "must".  It is the Squadron Commander's decision as to whether or not the individual should receive FO/TFO/SFO.  Sadly, there are some (certainly not all) cadets in my squadron who are finishing or who have finished their time in the Cadet Program to the age of 18 with a whimper instead of a bang, to put it nicely.  For those individuals, I have suggested they request a transfer to a Senior Squadron, where their new Commanding Officer can evaluate their performance and determine if the award of FO grade is indeed appropriate.  They certainly wouldn't be awarded it where they are now.

I currently have a TFO as part of my senior staff.  He does a fantastic job, and he is treated with the same respect and courtesy as any other Senior Member.  As the CO, one of my jobs is to make sure that we have no issues in this regard.

As the saying goes - 'Lead, follow, or get the heck out of the way.'

[Spike]

Hawk,

Most of us here were 18 at one time.  Your experiences are vastly different than mine and others.  Don't assume that because "you know" from experience because you you were 18, that everyone acts like you, or has the same experiences.

I have met both a 39 year old 2nd Lt, and a 19 year old AIR FORCE SECOND LIEUTENANT.  How much clearer can we all make it for you.  Just because you have never run into one, does not mean they do not exist. 

You have yet to answer the question on what the negatives there would be by having an 18 year old CAP 2nd Lt.  If you say relationships with Cadets, don't even bother posting a reply, as those are so far and few between. 

Can you grasp the concept that CAP is not the Air Force??  We have no Commissions, no UCMJ, etc.  CAP rank insignia is (and I really hate to say it publicly) meaningless.  Especially when most missions are driven and controlled by people who progressed further in training than others.  Rank has very little to do in CAP.  That is why a 2nd Lt can command a Squadron full of Lt Col's. 

I now know how you think, and pity those that are volunteers with you.

PLEASE PRESS THE SPELL CHECK BUTTON!!!