Joing as a Lieutenant?

[Bear Walling]

I have been out of CAP for years, and currently on a committee to reactivate a squadron in my area now that I am home from Iraq. Someone was telling me that since I am a certified Firefighter and EMT-B that I can join in as a Lieutenant. Is there any truth in that or are they just trying to make me feel better about being the second in charge and Emergency Services Officer?

[arajca]

You can join as a 2d Lt because of your EMT-B cert. If you want an easy promotion track, sign on as Health Services Officer - promotions are based solely on length of service as HSO.

[Bear Walling]

As generous as that sounds, I think I will stick with the Emergency Services track. I like a challenge...

[Flying Pig]

Basically, in CAP, everyone joins as a 2Lt.

[DNall]

You can do both with VERY little extra effort. Basically you just have to stay listed as the Sq HSO & you'll get promoted based on time served versus having to do lots of professional development stuff that's not related to what you want to do - that's the way I understand it anyway.

Now, is that a good idea to miss out on those courses that are there to make you more educated and effective as a CAP member/staff officer? Probably not, but it's your call.

Also, you said you'd been out of CAP for years. If you were previously an adult officer, we should be able to bring you back at your previous grade. If you were a cadet officer then we should be able to jump you up based on that achievement. Other then that, yeah you're tracking the right route for promotion based on the EMT.

[Bear Walling]

I was just your basic run of the mill cadet back in the day... And I might serve a dual role as ESO and HSO if asked. But I would rather earn my promotions because I earned it, not just because I have sat in the seat the longest. As I stated, I like a challenge. Plus a couple professional development courses never hurt anyone.

[arajca]

Good attitude.

[Rangercap]

I was just your basic run of the mill cadet back in the day... And I might serve a dual role as ESO and HSO if asked. But I would rather earn my promotions because I earned it, not just because I have sat in the seat the longest. As I stated, I like a challenge. Plus a couple professional development courses never hurt anyone.

Sign up for the ES ECI course, too (02130D). I'm taking the test tonight. If it's anything like the ECI 13 test... it should be a piece of cake.

Send me a PM.. I'm interested to hear about how you plan to restart your old unit. We're sort of in the same boat.

Brian
PAWG

[EMT-83]

Advancement within the HSO Specialty Track may not be an option. CAPR 35-5 states that the Wing HSO will review promotions, and not all Wings are in the position to do so. I had a squadron HSO who was unable to progress past Level 1 without signing up for another Specialty Track, according to the Wing PDO.

[DNall]

Good attitude.

Agreed.

Advancement within the HSO Specialty Track may not be an option. CAPR 35-5 states that the Wing HSO will review promotions, and not all Wings are in the position to do so. I had a squadron HSO who was unable to progress past Level 1 without signing up for another Specialty Track, according to the Wing PDO.

In what way was the WG "not in a position to do so?" Was there not a WG HSO or was there an issue with the WG doing their job?

I really don't like EMT being lumped in with that HSO advancement policy. The point of the policy is for us to retain doctors that would otherwise not be able to complete the PD requirements due to work commitments. Not that it's innately fair to everyone else, but we need doctors more (in theory anyway).

[EMT-83]

No Wing HSO. My situation was with a nurse who had a SAR background.

[davedove]

Just a quick technicality to point out here.  No one joins as a Lieutenant.  Everyone joins as a SMWOG.

Now, once Level I is completed, advance promotion is very possible and perhaps likely, but not automatic.

[arajca]

I really don't like EMT being lumped in with that HSO advancement policy. The point of the policy is for us to retain doctors that would otherwise not be able to complete the PD requirements due to work commitments. Not that it's innately fair to everyone else, but we need doctors more (in theory anyway).

I would say we need doctors less than EMT's. Doctors are great if you're runing a field hospital or major medical operation, but, with limited exceptions, they are clueless about field operations. When I was on the local fire department, we had a three page document for any doctor that showed up on scene wanting to give directions to read and sign written by a medical lawyer (lots of very big words - need I say more...). Usually by the time they finished, we had our medical control on the phone and let the doc's fight it out discuss who's responsible for the patient. By the time that was done, the patient was usually loaded in the ambulance and the point was moot.

[DNall]

I really don't like EMT being lumped in with that HSO advancement policy. The point of the policy is for us to retain doctors that would otherwise not be able to complete the PD requirements due to work commitments. Not that it's innately fair to everyone else, but we need doctors more (in theory anyway).

I would say we need doctors less than EMT's. Doctors are great if you're runing a field hospital or major medical operation, but, with limited exceptions, they are clueless about field operations. When I was on the local fire department, we had a three page document for any doctor that showed up on scene wanting to give directions to read and sign written by a medical lawyer (lots of very big words - need I say more...). Usually by the time they finished, we had our medical control on the phone and let the doc's fight it out discuss who's responsible for the patient. By the time that was done, the patient was usually loaded in the ambulance and the point was moot.

EMTs aren't supposed to provide care as CAP members in the field either. We need doctors (in theory) to design & oversee health & wellness programs above the Sq level.

In the more practical sense, we're trying to develop the HSO career field. We know at some point we're moving to FEMA standards for GSaR teams, which at a certain incident level requires an EMT in the command & control section of a 4-6 team (4-man tms) element. However, our EMTs can't operate in the field w/o SOP & oversight from doctors, and those Docs have to be backed up by a chief physician on the AF side, and a liability structure. Point being it's a lot easier to recruit a bunch of EMTs for field work than it is to recruit senior physicians for administrative & oversight mgmt type work. It also requires a lot more time to get that physician competent to do that role versus an EMT to do what they're actually trained for. Obviously, the liability issue is the chief hold up, but we'd like to build up our personnel so we're even capable of that activity if/when we could get the authority/protections to execute. 

[arajca]

This is an interesting digretion, but I think the OP's question was answered.

The future of the HSO track has been beaten to death at least once here. I have heard a rumor that the legal folks and HSO folks at National have reached an agreement of some sort, but I haven't seen or heard of anything official or even seen a current draft document.