CAP Budget Cut?

[BattagliaK]

  Hello,


I was notified at my last squadron meeting that CAP has had a budget cut due to our poor economy, and that only SAR, and Drug Reduction programs will continue to be funded for now, but other events, such as encampments will all be cancelled, and also how uniforms/binders will not be issued to new cadets? I was a little confused, but very shocked to hear this. I could not find any other post about this. Is there any other information we know about this, such as how long the budget cut will take place for? I am extremely curious about this event, and if it will effect the future of CAP.

[Eclipse]

We're basically back to normal from an ES and Flight Ops perspective.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14063.0

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays_features.cfm/additional_missions_authorized_during_budget_uncertainty?show=news&newsID=12016

The actual "all stop" lasted about 1 week, during a period when funding is traditionally slow, anyway.

[♠SARKID♠]

Its not a permanent cut back.  The gov't is still tustling over who gets what money and until they finish we're working with the money that's already in the coffers from the current budget.

[Perez]

As long as there's O-flights for the newbies, ES missions from the Air Force, and encampments; then I'm all set.

[RADIOMAN015]

No one really knows what the final budget cuts are going to be and what areas will be affected.   Regardless of what some on this list think CAP will get their fair share of budget cuts and will have to make appropriate adjustments.

IF congress can't come up with cuts on their own, than the automatic withholding/cuts will take place.   The entire Department of Defense will take a significant reduction.  IF this happens with the exception of CAP's ES flying type missions, say goodby to the rest of the program unless the membership self funds it.   So the Come And Pay aspect of the programs might involve even more outlay of members' (or members' parents)  money, especially for cadet uniforms.
RM

[Eclipse]

No one really knows what the final budget cuts are going to be and what areas will be affected.   Regardless of what some on this list think CAP will get their fair share of budget cuts and will have to make appropriate adjustments.

For starters, these aren't budget cuts.

[RADIOMAN015]

No one really knows what the final budget cuts are going to be and what areas will be affected.   Regardless of what some on this list think CAP will get their fair share of budget cuts and will have to make appropriate adjustments.

For starters, these aren't budget cuts.

Please refer to the following recently published article:

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20111105/NEWS01/111050316/Maxwell-cut-97-positions?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7Cp

CAP-USAF is specifically mentioned in the employee staff reduction.   Note that a fair amount of positions were not filled in anticipation of this "budget" cut.

IF no agreement by congressional deficit reduction committee (no real surprise there), than automatic $500 billion in DOD cuts, FY2013 to FY2021.  Hopefully National HQ is planning for the reduction, cause it's coming and personally I see no reason why CAP should be spared from any budget cuts.

Again, I'm wondering how much the membership is going to have to pay additionally to keep some of these programs going.  As an example the wing banker program, will units see assessments based upon total dollar balances, check written, etc.     Will we need to get local sponsorship to have are own SAR training exercises?   How will all of this in the end affect retention of members 
RM   

[Eclipse]

Hopefully National HQ is planning for the reduction, cause it's coming and personally I see no reason why CAP should be spared from any budget cuts.

We're shocked.

For the record, CAP provides way more back to the government and country than is appropriated each year - probably by a factor of ten.
Feel like doing math?  Figure out the simple cost of providing 24x7 national response manpower to fulfill the mission of the ELT's alone.

What happened this week was not a "budget cut", and further, while it affects us, it isn't directly related to us, we're just one of the thousands
of agencies and offices effected.

[PHall]

As an example the wing banker program, will units see assessments based upon total dollar balances, check written, etc.     
RM

You have a source for this or are you just wondering out loud? (i.e. Trolling, again...)

[NCRblues]

No one really knows what the final budget cuts are going to be and what areas will be affected.   Regardless of what some on this list think CAP will get their fair share of budget cuts and will have to make appropriate adjustments.

For starters, these aren't budget cuts.

Please refer to the following recently published article:

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20111105/NEWS01/111050316/Maxwell-cut-97-positions?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7Cp

CAP-USAF is specifically mentioned in the employee staff reduction.   Note that a fair amount of positions were not filled in anticipation of this "budget" cut.

IF no agreement by congressional deficit reduction committee (no real surprise there), than automatic $500 billion in DOD cuts, FY2013 to FY2021.  Hopefully National HQ is planning for the reduction, cause it's coming and personally I see no reason why CAP should be spared from any budget cuts.

Again, I'm wondering how much the membership is going to have to pay additionally to keep some of these programs going.  As an example the wing banker program, will units see assessments based upon total dollar balances, check written, etc.     Will we need to get local sponsorship to have are own SAR training exercises?   How will all of this in the end affect retention of members 
RM

How many units even KNOW who the state director is? How many units even KNOW who the cap-usaf reservist is for them?

I don't know about your alls wing, but mine hardly even sees the SD. Some of the wing staff is not even sure what he does, if anything, for us.

I have no problem with the cutting of cap-usaf and SD's. Seems to me, a waste of money as is. Many units (ill guess 96%) will go years without anything from the SD or cap-usaf reps.

3 wings to a SD? Sure, why not?

[Eclipse]

NCR - you may not know who your SD is, or your wing may have "issues" in this regard, but he's in the background on everything.

All ES missions and expenditures, all property, anything to do with the aircraft, approval and oversight of the encampments, and 100 other things
that members may not see directly but affects their activities and response ability.

Wings that do not have a strong relationship with their SD and CAP-RAPS are usually the ones challenged in other areas as well.

Any unit who doesn't get anything from the SD's or CAP-RAPs isn't doing anything but marching in circles.

[Thom]

<snip>

How many units even KNOW who the state director is? How many units even KNOW who the cap-usaf reservist is for them?

I don't know about your alls wing, but mine hardly even sees the SD. Some of the wing staff is not even sure what he does, if anything, for us.

I have no problem with the cutting of cap-usaf and SD's. Seems to me, a waste of money as is. Many units (ill guess 96%) will go years without anything from the SD or cap-usaf reps.

3 wings to a SD? Sure, why not?

Wow, I'm not sure how you guys manage to do business without an actively involved SD. Our SD is a permanent presence at pretty much all Wing activities, most every SAREX that involves more than one squadron, and every Academy and Conference. Not to speak of Encampment, which just wouldn't happen on a military base without his assistance.

We depend on him to push through our funding requests and permission requests to CAP-USAF. He routinely get things approved for us that are well past the '30 day lead time' requirement. Recently he's been ferrying the Audit folks around from squadron to squadron.

Honestly, from the sound of your experience, either we are very lucky, or you are very unlucky. The experience just doesn't sound at all similar.



Thom

[RADIOMAN015]

<snip>

How many units even KNOW who the state director is? How many units even KNOW who the cap-usaf reservist is for them?

I don't know about your alls wing, but mine hardly even sees the SD. Some of the wing staff is not even sure what he does, if anything, for us.

I have no problem with the cutting of cap-usaf and SD's. Seems to me, a waste of money as is. Many units (ill guess 96%) will go years without anything from the SD or cap-usaf reps.

3 wings to a SD? Sure, why not?

Recently he's been ferrying the Audit folks around from squadron to squadron.

Thom

Why would audit folks need to be visiting squadrons   Doesn't the wing banker program centralize all documentation, and shortly all documentations will actually be scanned in the computer, so the auditors may not even have to visit a wing
RM

[NCRblues]

Eclipse, I understand what he is supposed to do, what he does and what the wing king forces him to do is a different story.

Thom, I believe you are very lucky, my wing on the other hand, unlucky. At every commanders call wing staff wonders if he will be there. When he does show (once or twice a year) all he wants to do is talk about how much money we (cap) waste and demand to use CAP aircraft to get to meetings.

We as wing staff and with the wing king have asked several times to get him replaced with no avail.

[Eclipse]

Eclipse, I understand what he is supposed to do, what he does and what the wing king forces him to do is a different story.

The Wing CC and SD are outside each other's chains, neither can "force" the other to do anything.  The SD's primary role is oversight and
administration of funds and property, and has little authority in wing operations until something looks like it is unsafe, misappropriated,
or misused.

Some wings treat their SD's like an interloper, and then are surprised when the relationship is strained.

[RADIOMAN015]

Hopefully National HQ is planning for the reduction, cause it's coming and personally I see no reason why CAP should be spared from any budget cuts.

We're shocked.

For the record, CAP provides way more back to the government and country than is appropriated each year - probably by a factor of ten.
Feel like doing math?  Figure out the simple cost of providing 24x7 national response manpower to fulfill the mission of the ELT's alone.

What happened this week was not a "budget cut", and further, while it affects us, it isn't directly related to us, we're just one of the thousands
of agencies and offices effected.

Eclipse, you sure it isn't 20X's the amount funded :angel:  Yes, I would think that every wing could at least get one aircraft in the air fairly quickly.  Probably field at least one GT, although likely more UDF teams.
 
As far as CAP's "alleged" flying hours costs, I don't believe it's accurate.  I believe it's much higher than advertised because you do have to take into consideration the USAF allocated costs of monitoring CAP.  Also how much of the Nation HQ administrative staff cost is allocated to the flying program???  Additionally, you notice that publicly CAP has never published what the budget flying hours are for a particular year versus what was actually achieved, this also would influence the cost per hour.
   
The USAF could actually give to the states all S&R, ELT missions to perform.  There's nothing to prevent that, although it's unlikely that most states have the DF equipment for tracking down ELT's.   Also state budget cuts have reduced state aviation resources.  For example the CT state police has grounded their helicopter but still has 1 or 2 aircraft available.   HOWEVER, on the other hand, rumor is that MA state police aero wing helicopters are getting ELT DF equipment.  MA State PD do not fly helos in IMC.  CAP can fly in IMC.

it is going to be interesting to see what programs are going to get cut/reduced in CAP.  Likely candidates will be the free uniforms for cadets.  Also CAP Inc might have to self fund the entire aerospace education efforts.   
Probably see the aircraft fleet reduced ("right sized") to meet current mission requirements.  We probably won't need as many aircrew member either, so those that can show that they are available for missions will get the appropriate training, not the ones that only show up for funded training and are NEVER available for real missions -- what a waste of time & taxpayers money that is  

Every American & Government level/departments are going to need to feel some pain to help reduce the federal budget and CAP Inc is NO different than anyone else.
RM

[Eclipse]

Every American & Government level/departments are going to need to feel some pain to help reduce the federal budget and CAP Inc is NO different than anyone else.

CAP is completely different than any agency with paid employees.

[RADIOMAN015]

Every American & Government level/departments are going to need to feel some pain to help reduce the federal budget and CAP Inc is NO different than anyone else.

CAP is completely different than any agency with paid employees.

Ya think that volunteer fire departments just might see federal grants available for equipment get reduced in the future budget years    Pretty similar in my opinion to CAP.  Actually the fire department volunteers are likely providing much more emergency support to their community than CAP every will :angel:. 

I think CAP will face some funding challenges in the future.
RM   

[Eclipse]

Ya think that volunteer fire departments just might see federal grants available for equipment get reduced in the future budget years?

CAP is completely different than any agency with paid employees.

And we're not talking about local agencies, are we?

[RADIOMAN015]

Ya think that volunteer fire departments just might see federal grants available for equipment get reduced in the future budget years?

CAP is completely different than any agency with paid employees.

And we're not talking about local agencies, are we?

Perhaps you missed what I had in one of my previous posts:

Every American & Government level/departments are going to need to feel some pain to help reduce the federal budget and CAP Inc is NO different than anyone else. 

Federal budgets impact all levels of government:  Not only the fed but state, county, city/town, service areas, etc.
RM