CAP general experiences

[baqqqia]

I've been looking at CAP and I saw a lot of information around, however I sill did not find a satisfactory answer to what CAP is in practice. I'm asking about the senior membership. Here's a few things that I'm wondering about:
- It's a voluntary program and I assume many (most?) people in CAP have a daily job. How "devoted" are you to CAP? I would like to join CAP in a symbiotic way (doing something good + flying at the same time), but I certainly would not like that to have unwanted influence on my own life.
- Does CAP interfere with your regular life? This is quite broad, but anything that bothers you? E.g. are there some predefined things you have to do, even though you have something planned for this weekend? If so, how often does this happen? Maybe what I'm asking is - is this something you can control (yeah, I know you can quit CAP, but then that's not really controlling, it is more quitting - don't want that) or is most of it out of your control?
- Do you answer the call or are you summoned to it? E.g. if there's a rescue mission, is it your obligation to answer and be there? Just wondering - if something happens 6am in the morning on Wednesday (a working day), can you say "I cannot do it today as I have to go to work" or is it "you have to come" type? If latter, I'd have to pass on this, which I would not like to.
- What kinds of jobs do you do? E.g. what were your last three things you did? Mostly interested in pilot stories, as this is my main interest
- I see there a lot programs offered by CAP that you can chose to do. I am not sure I understood, so wanted to clarify. Most intriguing to me are pilots and aerospace education. So what do you do if you are one of these?
- I'm not a pilot, but I am seriously thinking about becoming one. Is CAP a good symbiosis for this? E.g. is there a way to join CAP and become a pilot through it or at least have some help along the way (of any kind) or anything along these lines? Did you have any such experience?
- After I become a pilot, I would like to join CAP to do two things at once - possibly help somebody when needed and fly at the same time. Does this sound reasonable?

Wow, that's a lot of questions... Well, I will appreciate all answers that shed any light on the above! Your other thoughts also welcome!

[RADIOMAN015]

I think most adults join Civil Air Patrol because they want to volunteer in an organization that performs "Missions for America" as well as aids in youth development.

Regarding the aerospace education specialty, ideally CAP is looking with someone with an instructional type background (with an interest in aerospace subject material) and/or some aviation type experience.  There's a fair amount of school teachers that are in aerospace education.

As an adult member, CAP does not provide instruction for you in getting your initial private pilots license.

Adult volunteers can choose really how much time they want to give to the program.   Generally meetings are  2 1/2 to 3 hours long, likely on weekday evenings.   Usually there's some weekend activities, and depending upon your skills and interests e.g. emergency services, it might be required that you attend some of these activities in order to get fully qualified.   Even as an aerospace education officer it is likely that things like launching rockets, visiting air museums, tour AF/FAA facilities would be on weekends.

Your best way to find out more about CAP is to visit a squadron nearest to you.  You can find this out by going to:
http://cap.findlocation.com/

RM     

[baqqqia]

Thanks RM!

So what you are saying is basically:
- My concerns about influencing daily life and "required" job time are not warranted - it's mostly weekday evenings/weekends (that's not a problem - if I'm to volunteer, then non-job time is something I'm counting on filling with volunteering activities)
- Unless you that stops you from advancing in CAP ranks, you are not required to be there if something else stops you from doing that at the time. But again, given the above point, that should not be an issue anyway

I was thinking about going to a CAP squadron, however thought I'll first clear a few misunderstandings I had before I go there (as some of them would stop me from going anyway).

[Major Carrales]

One get's out of CAP what they put into it.  I, for example, put in a lot of time to CAP.  That is my choice and I don't expect others to do that unless they want to.  It is a unique form of community service.

I would say this, if you promise some specific service, such as take on a program, you should "marry it."  Meaning,  if you committed to making some program successful you should make is so since you set up the situation where people will count on you.

Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence and Respect are the core values of the Civil Air Patrol...in as much, you have to do what you say you will do for the good of your unit to the best of your abilities in a way that shows you know your brother and sister CAP members have worth.  If you can't...then you need to acknowledge that and let people know what can and cannot be done. 

If you have a work, family or school conflict, let it be known...but, if I may submit, if you find a good squadron you may find you can develop a kinship with them that will be a part of your life.

If its just that you want to support the CAP financially, may i suggest Patron Status.

One's CAP "career" really is an open slate where one devises the characters.

[coudano]

You can always turn down a mission tasking or training, however it should be understood that over time the people who give the call outs get a general idea of who is willing to go and who typically says no.  Sometimes they will start to favor the people who frequently say yes.

That said, real life always carries priority over CAP...  it would be a terrible choice on your part to lose your job or lose rep with your boss, in order to go fly a grid search that turns up nothing, or just orbit in a comm relay...  Other people may have the flexibility to get a day off work for search and rescue;  It's up to you to balance your stuff...

You can't use CAP planes to get your initial private pilot certificate, but once you have that, and you qualify to fly CAP airplanes, you can use CAP's plane at a cheaper rate than your local airport rental, and if you can find a willing instructor, you can use CAP airplane and instructor to pursue further ratings.  It's something that can be done, but it's not guaranteed to you or anything.

[baqqqia]

Major Carrales, completely agree with you. I don't expect I can put much into CAP, so I don't expect much out of CAP. Maybe if I rephrase what I was asking - I was asking whether I can rest assured that my personal life and my job won't suffer because of this. Anything after that is a complete different game. If I put 1h, I get what 1h is "worth" in CAP context and that's it. If I put 100h, then I get 100x more and again that's it.

I also agree CAP should not be considered an auxiliary thing, more a part of life. Other people do depend on others and if you commit to something and then don't live up to that, that's not good on a greater scale - not only you, but others that then have to rely on somebody else (if they even have that options after you fail).

coudano - thanks, that's exactly the answer I was looking for on some of my questions. Of course - if you say no to all missions, then I guess what's the point joining in the first place?! As I wrote in the previous paragraphs - I don't want to say "no", I just want to be sure that I can say "no" when I want to due to different things - most notably my job and my other commitments.

When you say "people who give the call outs" - what are these typically (if there is something as a typical call-out anyway)? When do they happen usually? I'm just trying to get a feel of how CAP functions in general.

[fyrfitrmedic]

 I'd be lying if I said that CAP doesn't frustrate the hell outta me on a regular basis of late.

We seem to be trying to regulate ourselves out of existence and the BS just seems to be piling up faster and deeper in a lot of ways.

In many ways CAP isn't the organization I joined three decades ago... and not always in a good way.

What keeps me here? I have promises to keep and a number of things to "pay forward".

[Nilsog]

I have never been part of an organization that is so understanding of personal finances and home issues. I'm constantly told by my commander to make sure everything at home is taken care of before coming to my Squadron's meetings. Being a firefighter I work a lot of hours, and a lot of extra hours (especially recently where we're not fully staffed). I have never made a SAREX because I work a lot of Saturdays, and so I have not been able to do much of the scanner training that I want, but I have excelled in other areas. I am the Health Services Officer at my Squadron, and also the Asst. DCC. I coordinate with the DCC in the event that he cannot attend so that there will always be senior leadership present for the cadets. I was able to attend the full week of Airman Academy this year, serving as Medical Officer and TAC officer and I was given an Achievement Award for my duty performance.

Having said that, I have also taken at least two leaves of absence, once because I was taking Fire Instructor I/II which was on my regular meeting nights, and another time when I purchased my house. My commander was very understanding and supportive the both times.

I have an hour travel time to my squadron and cannot always attend, whether due to financial or work obligations. This has never affected my status at the squadron, but I always try to put in 110% when i am there.

Firefighting used to make me feel warm and fuzzy, but long gone are those days- politics has ruined the love I once had for it, though it is still the career I plan on working until I die or retire. Civil Air Patrol is by far the most rewarding thing I have done in my life. My fiancee is often upset because of the long hours I put into it, but she is very supportive as well and understands my desire to do more than the bare minimum for my community and country.

Even if you can only meet the bare minimum, I encourage you to join. CAP has a way of giving back everything you put into it and more, you just have to be willing.

[lordmonar]

As has been stated before.....You get out of CAP what you put in.

CAP does expect a certain amount of particpation.  But everyone is flexible.  No one is required to do anything....but internal squadron politics may dictate who get scheduled on the SAREX for training......and sometimes you have to put in your dues to work you way up.

Not saying this is righ.....just that it does exist in some squadrons.

I have been active CAP for about seven years now....and I am very active in the cadet and ES.....but I make an effort to free up the time.

Others who contribute a lot of CAP may only show up for 1-2 meetings per quarter. 

Find a good squadorn near you....find a mentor/friend who will show you the ropes and get you through the BS I mean initial training and get you started flying.

[baqqqia]

fyrfitrmedic - sorry to hear that. Though, I don't think that's CAP - I see this all around. It seems that as the society grows, the need for formalization grows, otherwise it would probably end up a great mess. It's always good without rules, until you need them. It's a tradeoff - more rules, "safe" world, less rules, "free/interesting" world.

Nilsog - thanks for the encouraging words - they are, as when I hear nothing is obligatory, it gives me freedom of mind that I can go into it without thinking that later I'll regret because I may not be able to do both (my life and CAP). Also glad you like it - what you put into CAP is certainly a tremendous help to those receiving it.

lordmonar - another confirmation, thanks! Cool, this seems like a viable option!

Can you give me insight what you do at CAP? For example, can you describe some of your recent days or something along these lines? I still don't think I understand what CAP does exactly - I read about this and that missions, but I still did not find anything concrete. What missions are something that you were a part of? I mean, there's a mention of a "rescue mission", but I somehow don't think that's happening everyday to most of CAP members. Or am I wrong about that?

[Flying Pig]

I'd be lying if I said that CAP doesn't frustrate the hell outta me on a regular basis of late.

We seem to be trying to regulate ourselves out of existence and the BS just seems to be piling up faster and deeper in a lot of ways.

In many ways CAP isn't the organization I joined three decades ago... and not always in a good way.

What keeps me here? I have promises to keep and a number of things to "pay forward".

I am a recent former member.  You wont hear me bash CAP in the slightest.  I had about 20 yrs between cadet and senior.  Mission Pilot, CD Pilot, Squadron Commander.  I tried to be very involved, tried to be involved with things that mattered, and it never really happened.  I felt I had a lot to offer CAP in the way of specific expertise but was never tapped for anything really.  CD was/is a good program.  But the two guys who knew how to actually run the program in CAWG have since resigned from CAP out of the same frustrations I had as well.  When I saw those guys leave, I decided I had had enough.  I just got tired of waiting to be part of something that I considered worthwhile.   My son decided CAP was not for him and quite to be more active in sports.  When he joined, I had already decided I was finished with the Senior side of CAP and was going to just focus on cadets.  But with him leaving, that was all that I had left as far as motivation to stay in.  However, everyone in CAP is looking for something different.  I had fullfiled my obligations and promises.  Once those were satisfied, I bowed out before I ended up with another multi year promis to keep.  I may come back someday, but I probably wont.  I imagine over time, my presence here will fade as well.  However, even since leaving CAP, I have still referred others to it who I think would enjoy it.  Its a great program, its just that in my life I think its run its course.  But with your being a new member, keep in mind, I enjoyed it deeply for 20 years before I decided the flame had died.
Those are my thoughts.

[Stonewall]

CAP can be addictive.  I had 23 years in (5 as a cadet) before walking away.  Like my brother, Flying Pig, it was just time for me to go.  I too still refer people to the program because it truly is a great organization for the right people.  Whether you join for symbolism (doing something good) or join because you genuinely have something to offer the cadet program, you can truly get hooked.

I was hooked for several years, mostly through the 90s, but as administrations and policies changed, as did I, it just wasn't worth my time.  Perhaps I'll explore being a member again when my oldest child is 12.  If he's interested, then maybe I'll re-join as a new member, starting from the bottom, or perhaps join as an enlisted member with my military retired rank.

Go for it. If you don't find what you're looking for then cut your losses and seek service elsewhere.

[flyboy53]

General experience...good and bad...with lots of contradictions.

The jury is still out on whether the negatives outway the positives.

I sometimes believe there is too much micro management. Also, you can burn out really easy between the politics and the demands on your time and family.

Do I regret anything? In some ways, yes because I encouraged our kids to join and the way my son and daughter have been treated has left permanent damage on our family. In other ways, no.

I've been in and out of this organization since 1966, with two breaks attributed to being a CAPRAP at one point and burn-out after the first Gulf War, but I'm still here.

It is a great way to serve our County, but that is tempered by the lack of respect given the organization as a whole by Big Brother Air Force.

[baqqqia]

Flying Pig/Stonewall/flyboy1 - thanks for your experiences, I hear you. It's these things that I understand are present in any organization and I guess everyone wants to avoid. I certainly would not be able to put too much into CAP, so I don't think I can lose too much personally, but I don't want to involve myself if it just happens that I will not be able to live up to my promises. As others have noted - CAP depends on the members keeping their word more or less.

[mclarke]

I commit about 3 hours every 2 weeks for meetings. In addition to that, I also commit about 4-10 hours a week of stuff at home on the PC, and another 5-10 hours a week in recruiting, public relations, and furthering our message.

[EMT-83]

As someone who "drank the Kool-Aid" I would guess that I spend a bit more time than many members, although not as much as some here on CAP Talk.

There are politics in every organization, and the challenge is to push them aside and concentrate on what's important. Without hesitation, I can say that the positive experiences vastly outnumber the negative ones.

The most positive aspect is the friendships gained. I have CAP members who are closer to me than some family members. That's not written in any recruiting guide, but it's a huge benefit.

Others have said that you will get out of the program what you put into it, which is true. I'll take that a step further and make a potentially controversial statement: make sure that you have something to bring to the table. If you only plan on showing up once in a while when it's convenient, don't bother.

Every member has a job – we call them duty assignments. If you don't show up to do your job, someone else has to fill in. That interferes with their job. Yes, we're all volunteers. That only refers to the status of our paycheck, not the level that we perform our duties.

I would encourage you to visit a squadron or two, and check them out.

[Eclipse]

Do I regret anything? In some ways, yes because I encouraged our kids to join and the way my son and daughter have been treated has left permanent damage on our family. In other ways, no.

I've been in and out of this organization since 1966, with two breaks attributed to being a CAPRAP at one point and burn-out after the first Gulf War, but I'm still here.

Why are you still part of an organization you allege "permanently damaged your family"?

This is either over-dramatization, or your priorities are a bit askew...

[sneakers]

I'd be lying if I said that CAP doesn't frustrate the hell outta me on a regular basis of late.

We seem to be trying to regulate ourselves out of existence and the BS just seems to be piling up faster and deeper in a lot of ways.

In many ways CAP isn't the organization I joined three decades ago... and not always in a good way.

What keeps me here? I have promises to keep and a number of things to "pay forward".

I enjoy CAP in the extreme, yet I have to agree with this. For clarification, it is because I think CAP is so great that I just get frustrated at stuff like this. It takes away from an awesome program. I've noticed changes that (for the most part) detract from the program just over the several years I've been a member.

[necigrad]

Just like EMT-83 said, go to some meetings.  The folks here (and many are VERY experienced in CAP) have some great perspectives.  The bottom line, however, is what's available to you.  Go to squadron meetings as a visitor.  I know here in Las Vegas the squadrons all welcome guests.  Visit some different squadrons, get a feel for their personality.  When you go talk to some of the members, see what they think.  If you like what you hear and it works for you go for it!  I'm personally a fan of visiting for a few meeting first; between National, Wing, and Squadron dues the first year will be around $100 and that's a lot IMO to put in without checking it out.  If you find a squadron you like join and enjoy the new fulfilling experiences you will have!

[flyboy53]

Do I regret anything? In some ways, yes because I encouraged our kids to join and the way my son and daughter have been treated has left permanent damage on our family. In other ways, no.

I've been in and out of this organization since 1966, with two breaks attributed to being a CAPRAP at one point and burn-out after the first Gulf War, but I'm still here.

Why are you still part of an organization you allege "permanently damaged your family"?

This is either over-dramatization, or your priorities are a bit askew...

No, my priorities aren't askew. You can find postives and negatives in any organization. You can find elation and extreme frustration even in a church.

Why do I stay involved in CAP you ask?

Because it is something that I derive a personal satisfaction from, and I am making a difference in terms of other adults and kids. Also, it is something that my wife and I did as a couple before the last of our six kids came along. It is one of the things we still do as a couple; while other things, absent of this organization, are done with our family.

Damage, you ask? I was wing staff officer at one point then a group commander at another...now I'm a wing staff officer, again. The status means that both my son and daughter were subjected to exceptionally high standards. My son, who now suffers from Bipolar I, tried twice to get back involved in the program but still had to contend with nonsense from senior ranking cadets and senior members. He dropped out three achievements short of a Mitchell and once had the distinction of being the yougest GT-3 (age 13) in our wing. Instead, he has emersed himself in his music and still asks about CAP from time to time, extremely proud and bragging up my accomplishments. I will never wear CAP ribbons again because my son's the one who deserves the award.

My daughter still contends with this exceptional standard....try seven months as a 19-year-old SMWOG with Level I not upgraded because the squadron commander thinks she needs to serve six months TIG so that her promotion isn't deemed "unfair" to other senior members. Go figure, she's been allowed to hold a staff position and enter scanner training without Level I? The latest excuse from the squadron commander is that she needs to serve six months in a position before promotion to flight officer?

IG complaints get you nowhere.

The joke is that the wing commander remarked at the annual wing conference this weekend about organizational failures in terms of the membership...you think?

[ThatOneGuy]

Like flyboy said, any organization is going to have a share of ups and down, CAP included. I can say that in my 2 years in CAP, I have thought of quitting more than once. I almost did it, but just couldn't bring myself to. Like several people have already said, you get out of CAP what you put in. It does take a large portion of your time away from you, but it is well worth it. CAP is a unique organization, as it incorporates Aerospace and Cadet Programs (NCSAs, Encampments, etc.) and ES, all in one. In addition, unlike ROTC, we have Senior Members, who are great resources to the program. It's just my opinion, but CAP it a great organization, and I do not think there is another one like it out there. It may be a pain at times, but the benefits far outweigh the costs. Just my personal opinion.

[CT074CC]

I hope I can contribute to the conversation having been both a Cadet and a Senior Member.  As a Cadet, I joined when I was 13.  It was the one thing that literally saved my life.  I won't go into too many details, but without CAP, I would not be who I am today in many ways.  As a Cadet, I learned the ins and outs of CAP.  I held every cadet position possible, including Cadet Commander of the summer Encampment.  I loved CAP, and still do!  My only regret was that I stayed a Cadet NCO for too long and didn't have time to get past Cadet Captain, but we all learn our lessons.

Now, I agree with the pay it forward statement.  I believe I can never leave CAP, I owe it to future members, Cadets and Seniors for what I have received.

I would also suggest visiting other squadrons to see what their "charism" is.  I've noticed that most squadrons have a specific speciality.  Some are really involved in flying and others are excellent and specialize in Emergency Services.  Figure out what your passion is, it sounds like it is flying, so try and find a squadron that's really involved in flying and maybe even has an aircraft.

Now I serve as the Administration Officer and ES Officer, and it truly gives me a chance to serve and give back.  I can only commit to about two meetings a month, sometimes less, sometimes more because of my work schedule, but everyone knows the deal and are happy when I can be there.  You have to have a passion for CAP, but you also have to be realistic with your own work and family commitments.

Good luck, and I hope you find a good squadron!

[Persona non grata]

This a great organization to join and I have good and bad experiences in it as both a cadet and senior member.  I made a pledge when I was a cadet that I would stick with CAP and try to make positive change when I became a Senior .  With any type of group you are going to have personality conflicts.  The bottom line is that CAP needs leadership that is no bull.  We just need some straight shooters   I would encourage any person to accept the challenge and join and bring new out look to CAP .  Make your squadron great because it is the heart of CAP!