http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/cadet_programs/?new_ideas_on_the_free_cadet_uniform_program&show=entry&blogID=1195#comments (http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/cadet_programs/?new_ideas_on_the_free_cadet_uniform_program&show=entry&blogID=1195#comments)
I don't frequent the blog enough, but didn't see any chatter on it here either.
Any thoughts?
I'd be interested to see how the money is spent. I've seen many comparisons here of CAP costs compared to other activities (school sports, martial arts, boy scouts, etc).
Personally? I think we could come up with a compromise where a cadet can be outfitted in uniforms at a reasonable first year cost under $200, then leading to the normal annual rate from there. We'd still be one of the most affordable options out there.
No means testing, but I like the BDU option, and agree nothing free until Curry.
Some brought up encampment graduation. Any reason these can't be done in BDUs?
Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 02, 2014, 04:10:37 AM
Some brought up encampment graduation. Any reason these can't be done in BDUs?
Because they generally look like crap after a week of being worn at encampment.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 02, 2014, 04:10:37 AM
Some brought up encampment graduation. Any reason these can't be done in BDUs?
By the end of a week long encampment the BDUs are thoroughly trashed in most cases. Blues are worn infrequently so chances are the Blues will be in better condition. Graduation is a formal ceremony and should not look like a grungy gaggle.
So.....no there is no reason why we can't do encampment completely in BDUs.
Personally I would hold off on the FCU until Wright Brothers myself.
At my squadron we have a big drop off before WB as far as ROI waiting until then would get the most bang for the buck.
Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2014, 04:53:49 AM
So.....no there is no reason why we can't do encampment completely in BDUs.
+1.
Wash them, iron them, graduate in them.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 02, 2014, 08:29:11 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2014, 04:53:49 AM
So.....no there is no reason why we can't do encampment completely in BDUs.
+1.
Wash them, iron them, graduate in them.
But...but...they're dirty and they've been
used!
Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2014, 04:53:49 AM
So.....no there is no reason why we can't do encampment completely in BDUs.
Personally I would hold off on the FCU until Wright Brothers myself.
At my squadron we have a big drop off before WB as far as ROI waiting until then would get the most bang for the buck.
Never mind that the blues uniform is the "minimum required uniform" for the cadet program?
Or that BDUs cannot be "required" unless supplied (yeah, like thats ever stopped anybody?)
Quote from: NIN on April 02, 2014, 11:15:29 PMNever mind that the blues uniform is the "minimum required uniform" for the cadet program?
Easily changed.
Let's take some of that "support to the wings" money and put cadets in BDUs-only during Phase I,
and then allow them to wear blues only >after< an encampment during Phase II.
Would save a lot of people a lot of money and hassle.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 02, 2014, 08:29:11 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2014, 04:53:49 AM
So.....no there is no reason why we can't do encampment completely in BDUs.
+1.
Wash them, iron them, graduate in them.
You're making assumptions about the facilities that some wings have available to them to run encampment. Bringing 200 sets of BDUs to the laundromat, and providing a place for cadets to iron them upon their return, isn't going to work everywhere.
I've yet to see a justified reason to get the BDUs so filthy.
Quote from: dwb on April 02, 2014, 11:48:34 PM
You're making assumptions about the facilities that some wings have available to them to run encampment. Bringing 200 sets of BDUs to the laundromat, and providing a place for cadets to iron them upon their return, isn't going to work everywhere.
Yes, I am. But a lot of them have laundry facilities or machines, bring two, or just don't get them too dirty.
Treat the ones that don't as exceptions. I've seen the reverse issue as well with cadets wearing their
blues for inspections mid-encampment and graduating with a stained shirt, etc.
Soldiers wear the same uniforms for days and weeks at a time in austere environments, cadets should be
able to survive a week in barrack, etc., and not be covered in mud by graduation.
With proper undergarments, BDUs hold up pretty well.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 02, 2014, 11:57:16 PM
Quote from: dwb on April 02, 2014, 11:48:34 PM
You're making assumptions about the facilities that some wings have available to them to run encampment. Bringing 200 sets of BDUs to the laundromat, and providing a place for cadets to iron them upon their return, isn't going to work everywhere.
Yes, I am. But a lot of them have laundry facilities or machines, bring two, or just don't get them too dirty.
Treat the ones that don't as exceptions. I've seen the reverse issue as well with cadets wearing their
blues for inspections mid-encampment and graduating with a stained shirt, etc.
Soldiers wear the same uniforms for days and weeks at a time in austere environments, cadets should be
able to survive a week in barrack, etc., and not be covered in mud by graduation.
With proper undergarments, BDUs hold up pretty well.
All this will take is some prescience on the part of the organizer. One set for daily use, one set for down n dirty activities.
I'm in favor of requiring Curry, OTOH, the way things work, that's about what happens anyway, before the thing would show up.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 02, 2014, 11:53:10 PM
I've yet to see a justified reason to get the BDUs so filthy.
Follow this link to pages 8-9 . To add to it remember that in CAWG we don't have green in the Summer only varying shades of brown and with no rain a lot of dust.
http://www.cawgcadets.org/Activities/Encampment/08%20Weekbook/EncampmentWeekBook2008small.pdf (http://www.cawgcadets.org/Activities/Encampment/08%20Weekbook/EncampmentWeekBook2008small.pdf)
So wear PT gear in the dirt instead.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 02, 2014, 11:57:16 PM
Quote from: dwb on April 02, 2014, 11:48:34 PM
You're making assumptions about the facilities that some wings have available to them to run encampment. Bringing 200 sets of BDUs to the laundromat, and providing a place for cadets to iron them upon their return, isn't going to work everywhere.
Yes, I am. But a lot of them have laundry facilities or machines, bring two, or just don't get them too dirty.
Treat the ones that don't as exceptions. I've seen the reverse issue as well with cadets wearing their
blues for inspections mid-encampment and graduating with a stained shirt, etc.
Soldiers wear the same uniforms for days and weeks at a time in austere environments, cadets should be
able to survive a week in barrack, etc., and not be covered in mud by graduation.
With proper undergarments, BDUs hold up pretty well.
NJ Wing used to hold our week long ES training in the field. Two sets of utes with field sanitation. And we wore our BDU at graduation, and still managed to look sharp. There is no valid reason to not be able to use the BDU at graduation.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 03, 2014, 02:49:02 PM
So wear PT gear in the dirt instead.
Run 250+ cadets through a dirt O Course in shorts and T shirts? I wouldn't suggest it. You will spend the rest of the day taking care of all the skinned knees, scratches, small cuts etc. Look, if you want to play the contrarian great but at least give people some warning.
Quote from: THRAWN on April 03, 2014, 02:52:58 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 02, 2014, 11:57:16 PM
Quote from: dwb on April 02, 2014, 11:48:34 PM
You're making assumptions about the facilities that some wings have available to them to run encampment. Bringing 200 sets of BDUs to the laundromat, and providing a place for cadets to iron them upon their return, isn't going to work everywhere.
Yes, I am. But a lot of them have laundry facilities or machines, bring two, or just don't get them too dirty.
Treat the ones that don't as exceptions. I've seen the reverse issue as well with cadets wearing their
blues for inspections mid-encampment and graduating with a stained shirt, etc.
Soldiers wear the same uniforms for days and weeks at a time in austere environments, cadets should be
able to survive a week in barrack, etc., and not be covered in mud by graduation.
With proper undergarments, BDUs hold up pretty well.
NJ Wing used to hold our week long ES training in the field. Two sets of utes with field sanitation. And we wore our BDU at graduation, and still managed to look sharp. There is no valid reason to not be able to use the BDU at graduation.
Graduation is a formal ceremony. IMO BDU's are not appropriate for formal occasions such as Encampment graduation. No one is arguing if you can . But why would you want to? For an ES activity I can see it, just not for Encampment graduation. To say there is no valid reason is quite a stretch. That is just your opinion like mine.
Quote from: PA Guy on April 03, 2014, 10:04:34 AMFollow this link to pages 8-9 . To add to it remember that in CAWG we don't have green in the Summer only varying shades of brown and with no rain a lot of dust.
I'd put it down that quite a bit of the states in the land were terrestrial radio station call letters begin with K .. fit this description..
Quote from: PA Guy on April 03, 2014, 03:31:49 PMGraduation is a formal ceremony. IMO BDU's are not appropriate for a formal occasions such as graduation. No one is arguing that . But why would you want to? For an ES activity I can see it, just not for Encampment graduation. To say there is no valid reason is quite a stretch. That is just your opinion like mine.
So that we can adjust the FCU to make sense for day-to-day cadets.
CAP gives them a "free" uniform and then most units only wear that combo once a month or so, and
the cadet still has to go out and buy a uniform for the rest of the month, most activities, etc.
Quote from: a2capt on April 03, 2014, 03:37:43 PM
Quote from: PA Guy on April 03, 2014, 10:04:34 AMFollow this link to pages 8-9 . To add to it remember that in CAWG we don't have green in the Summer only varying shades of brown and with no rain a lot of dust.
I'd put it down that quite a bit of the states in the land were terrestrial radio station call letters begin with K .. fit this description..
What is your point? You think I should have said west of the Miss. River instead of CAWG? Again, what is your point?
Now you're all wound up.
I missed where, where I have were, and otherwise actually tried to broaden your point. California is not the only desert and dust state.
Quote from: a2capt on April 03, 2014, 04:55:19 PM
Now you're all wound up.
I missed where, where I have were, and otherwise actually tried to broaden your point. California is not the only desert and dust state.
::) ::) ::) ::)
I'd really support a free BDU option. My unit has a ton of blues that have been handed down & acquired over the years. Our BDU supply is starting to dwindle, and as others have posted, the cadets wear BDUs more often the Blues (only once a month).
This is a pipe dream, I know, but I wouldn't mind NHQ being able to sell uniforms at a major discount. If new BDUs from BDU.com go for around $29.99 for each piece, NHQ uses some of that FCU money to allow us to buy them for $15 a piece or something. They could probably source directly for bulk pricing and then offer an even bigger discount. I know the Vanguard issue throws that idea completely out the window, but like I was saying...a pipe dream.
Quote from: NIN on April 02, 2014, 11:15:29 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2014, 04:53:49 AM
So.....no there is no reason why we can't do encampment completely in BDUs.
Personally I would hold off on the FCU until Wright Brothers myself.
At my squadron we have a big drop off before WB as far as ROI waiting until then would get the most bang for the buck.
Never mind that the blues uniform is the "minimum required uniform" for the cadet program?
Or that BDUs cannot be "required" unless supplied (yeah, like thats ever stopped anybody?)
That's a simple reg change.
Quote from: Walkman on April 03, 2014, 08:08:56 PM
I'd really support a free BDU option. My unit has a ton of blues that have been handed down & acquired over the years. Our BDU supply is starting to dwindle, and as others have posted, the cadets wear BDUs more often the Blues (only once a month).
This is a pipe dream, I know, but I wouldn't mind NHQ being able to sell uniforms at a major discount. If new BDUs from BDU.com go for around $29.99 for each piece, NHQ uses some of that FCU money to allow us to buy them for $15 a piece or something. They could probably source directly for bulk pricing and then offer an even bigger discount. I know the Vanguard issue throws that idea completely out the window, but like I was saying...a pipe dream.
Speaking of, we had a major cleaning of our unit a couple weeks ago and I uncovered boxes upon boxes of nearly brand new BDU blouses. Unfortunatley, all were X-small/short. And no pants. Trying to see about working out a trade someplace. We are talking well over 100 shirts.
I like the FCU BDU argument but it would also mean fewer FCUs to give out, since they would have to be sourced commercially instead of through AAFES.
I'm a big fan of field expedient graduations. Then again, I'm a ground pounder.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on April 06, 2014, 11:21:09 PM
I like the FCU BDU argument but it would also mean fewer FCUs to give out, since they would have to be sourced commercially instead of through AAFES.
Fewer? How?
If anything, commercial sources will more readily have the sizes we need, especially the smaller ones.
Fewer .. cadets over all that get something, if BDUs cost more than short sleeve blues.
White paper states BDUs are cheaper by about $20/ cadet.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 07, 2014, 12:20:52 AM
White paper states BDUs are cheaper by about $20/ cadet.
Let's not let facts get in the way of tasty conjecture.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 06, 2014, 11:43:55 PMQuote from: Spaceman3750 on April 06, 2014, 11:21:09 PM
I like the FCU BDU argument but it would also mean fewer FCUs to give out, since they would have to be sourced commercially instead of through AAFES.
Fewer? How?
If anything, commercial sources will more readily have the sizes we need, especially the smaller ones.
Fewer, as in BDUs are (at least I believed to be) more expensive, and assuming that the money bucket for FCUs is not bottomless, higher cost per cadet = fewer cadets served. I'm not great at math but even I'm able to do division.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 07, 2014, 12:20:52 AM
White paper states BDUs are cheaper by about $20/ cadet.
That's interesting, I did not see that. I'd be interested in how that works. Commercially-available BDUs run about $30 per piece. So that's about $65 for blouse, trousers and a web belt, plus shipping to the cadet or unit. A SS blues shirt from MCSS is $14.47, trousers are $38.74, and a belt is $2.50, leading to a $10 savings over BDUs.Vanguard's BDU pricing seems to be better than the BDUs/BBDUs that I buy, most likely because I buy Propper and they buy Rothco/Tru-Spec/Genuine Gear. That does provide an advantage over blues pricing.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 07, 2014, 12:24:15 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on April 07, 2014, 12:20:52 AM
White paper states BDUs are cheaper by about $20/ cadet.
Let's not let facts get in the way of tasty conjecture.
Oh come on, I think you know me better than that. It wasn't conjecture, it's fact depending on your supplier and quality preference, and their supplier of choice beat mine.
EDIT: Nothing says "I love the Air Force" like this guy on the Exchange site:
(https://images.aafes.com/wsICSImage/clsShowImage.asmx/ShowImage?id=M204H.jpg&type=custom&width=140&height=140)
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on April 07, 2014, 12:51:06 AM
Oh come on, I think you know me better than that. It wasn't conjecture, it's fact depending on your supplier and quality preference, and their supplier of choice beat mine.
That wasn't directed at you, but the reality is that NHQ would have to do an RFP on this, and
guarantee a quantity, or add some other incentive, which would drive the price down.
So odds are any prices we can find openly for normal consumer channels isn't going to be the price NHQ would pay.
though I know the blues pants are about the same as BDU pants, OTOH, the issue shirt is half the price, hence the "probably more expensive" since there isn't any DLA dealings in BDUs anymore.
As usual, CAP was looking the other way at something shiny...
http://www.dla.mil/dla_media_center/Pages/newsarticle201401130100.aspx (http://www.dla.mil/dla_media_center/Pages/newsarticle201401130100.aspx)
"Defense Logistics Agency Troop Support provided excess uniforms to the 25th Infantry Division's Jungle Operations Training Center in Hawaii, saving that organization money and reducing DLA's inventory."
"About 17,000 woodland camouflage battle dress uniforms, valued at nearly $1.2 million, will include coats, trousers and caps. Deliveries are scheduled to be completed by March, C&T Plans and Integration Chief Dave Farrell said."
Seriously, where is our NHQ contact with DRMO / DLA calling everybody to find out about excess inventory?
You don't even want to know how many base DRMO facilities sent BDUs to the shredder because they got no hits while in the facility .. due to the screener approval mess with the loss of the CAPRAP support. Requests for screening of all kinds just languished. ..and if interest is not show in stuff for a certain period, off it goes.
I know it's sickening...
Apathy is the death of a thousand cuts.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 07, 2014, 01:29:03 AM
Seriously, where is our NHQ contact with DRMO / DLA calling everybody to find out about excess inventory?
Your mistake is assuming that there
is a NHQ contact with DRMO/DLA. ::)
Quote from: PHall on April 07, 2014, 02:03:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 07, 2014, 01:29:03 AM
Seriously, where is our NHQ contact with DRMO / DLA calling everybody to find out about excess inventory?
Your mistake is assuming that there is a NHQ contact with DRMO/DLA. ::)
Yeah, I know. Crazy.
We now return you to developing an NCO program.
Quote from: Eclipse on April 07, 2014, 02:33:15 AM
Quote from: PHall on April 07, 2014, 02:03:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 07, 2014, 01:29:03 AM
Seriously, where is our NHQ contact with DRMO / DLA calling everybody to find out about excess inventory?
Your mistake is assuming that there is a NHQ contact with DRMO/DLA. ::)
Yeah, I know. Crazy.
We now return you to developing an NCO program.
A uniform thread...that is devolving into...something....else...must...control...fist...of...death...black is white up is down left is right nothing makes sense anymore error error exterminate exterminate you will be deleted
Quote from: PHall on April 07, 2014, 02:03:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 07, 2014, 01:29:03 AM
Seriously, where is our NHQ contact with DRMO / DLA calling everybody to find out about excess inventory?
Your mistake is assuming that there is a NHQ contact with DRMO/DLA. ::)
We wouldn't be having a discussion about an FCU program if the blues that the AF DRMOs every month went to us first.
If wings got a couple tri-walls of blues a year, this would be a non-issue.
Speaking of "a BDU" option:
(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10155818_524650640980617_170153149_n.jpg)
BDUs at a region conference banquet where the specified *minimum* uniform was Service Dress (or corp equiv).
Really? Why don't we just not bother with uniforms at all and let everybody come to CAP in flip flops and torn jeans?
What direction, angle, and length of tear?
What shade of jeans?
I don't have any.
Quote from: NIN on April 07, 2014, 04:59:35 PM
Speaking of "a BDU" option:
(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10155818_524650640980617_170153149_n.jpg)
BDUs at a region conference banquet where the specified *minimum* uniform was Service Dress (or corp equiv).
Wondering if those were brand new cadet basics, waiting for their free blues uniform to arrive. >:D
Quote from: Walkman on April 07, 2014, 09:14:53 PM
Wondering if those were brand new cadet basics, waiting for their free blues uniform to arrive. >:D
Maybe. What were they doing at a region conference? Where is their unit leadership on this? Who from the unit said "The UOD as specified is mess dress or service dress. So, yeah, wear your BDUs, it'll be _fine_...totally appropriate..."?
Quote from: NIN on April 07, 2014, 09:46:38 PM
Quote from: Walkman on April 07, 2014, 09:14:53 PM
Wondering if those were brand new cadet basics, waiting for their free blues uniform to arrive. >:D
Maybe. What were they doing at a region conference? Where is their unit leadership on this? Who from the unit said "The UOD as specified is mess dress or service dress. So, yeah, wear your BDUs, it'll be _fine_...totally appropriate..."?
And here I was worrying about whether my wings were straight. Silly me...
Quote from: NIN on April 07, 2014, 09:46:38 PM
Quote from: Walkman on April 07, 2014, 09:14:53 PM
Wondering if those were brand new cadet basics, waiting for their free blues uniform to arrive. >:D
Maybe. What were they doing at a region conference? Where is their unit leadership on this? Who from the unit said "The UOD as specified is mess dress or service dress. So, yeah, wear your BDUs, it'll be _fine_...totally appropriate..."?
More than likely Cadet Highspeed and Cadet Lowdrag just chose to ignore the directive and attended because that was the only uniform they had, and didn't think to wonder if a formal event MIGHT mean nice clothes. I mean, kids go to church in rags these days, so what's their guideline?
Quote from: Garibaldi on April 08, 2014, 12:08:15 AM
Quote from: NIN on April 07, 2014, 09:46:38 PM
Quote from: Walkman on April 07, 2014, 09:14:53 PM
Wondering if those were brand new cadet basics, waiting for their free blues uniform to arrive. >:D
Maybe. What were they doing at a region conference? Where is their unit leadership on this? Who from the unit said "The UOD as specified is mess dress or service dress. So, yeah, wear your BDUs, it'll be _fine_...totally appropriate..."?
More than likely Cadet Highspeed and Cadet Lowdrag just chose to ignore the directive and attended because that was the only uniform they had, and didn't think to wonder if a formal event MIGHT mean nice clothes. I mean, kids go to church in rags these days, so what's their guideline?
Dude, their squadron commander had to sign the Form 31 for them to come and the flyer was pretty specific about what to wear.
I don't blame the cadets, I blame their "leadership" for failing these cadets.
Quote from: PHall on April 08, 2014, 12:24:45 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on April 08, 2014, 12:08:15 AM
Quote from: NIN on April 07, 2014, 09:46:38 PM
Quote from: Walkman on April 07, 2014, 09:14:53 PM
Wondering if those were brand new cadet basics, waiting for their free blues uniform to arrive. >:D
Maybe. What were they doing at a region conference? Where is their unit leadership on this? Who from the unit said "The UOD as specified is mess dress or service dress. So, yeah, wear your BDUs, it'll be _fine_...totally appropriate..."?
More than likely Cadet Highspeed and Cadet Lowdrag just chose to ignore the directive and attended because that was the only uniform they had, and didn't think to wonder if a formal event MIGHT mean nice clothes. I mean, kids go to church in rags these days, so what's their guideline?
Dude, their squadron commander had to sign the Form 31 for them to come and the flyer was pretty specific about what to wear.
I don't blame the cadets, I blame their "leadership" for failing these cadets.
Point taken, but don't forget they're kids and sometimes a directive doesn't mean much. It is a failure from them on up. If I were their unit CC and saw them there dressed like that parents would be called.
You know..
It could also have been that those cadets were -working- at the conference, providing support to the IT sector, or other kind of behind the scenes help and someone thought .. "hey, let them eat..".. Anyhow.. not really related to the thread topic otherwise ;)
Quote from: NIN on April 07, 2014, 04:59:35 PM
Speaking of "a BDU" option:
BDUs at a region conference banquet where the specified *minimum* uniform was Service Dress (or corp equiv).
Really? Why don't we just not bother with uniforms at all and let everybody come to CAP in flip flops and torn jeans?
Wow! Way to publicly pick on a pair of 12 or 13 year-olds behind their back in a way wherein they can't possibly defend themselves! It must make your oak leaves feel extra silvery to be able to stand up to a bunch of children and point out their faults so well!
And while you're being all super-internet lawyer-y with your oh-so-powerful copyright disclaimer ™©, I hope you had clear permission from the people in that picture to publicly post it in an unofficial forum. This actual lawyer here recognized a Cadet and Senior Member in the picture, will be contacting them and the Cadets' parents to let them know, and will gladly serve you with a cease-and-desist notice pro bono.
Quote from: Garibaldi on April 08, 2014, 12:08:15 AMMore than likely Cadet Highspeed and Cadet Lowdrag just chose to ignore the directive and attended because that was the only uniform they had, and didn't think to wonder if a formal event MIGHT mean nice clothes. I mean, kids go to church in rags these days, so what's their guideline?
Same goes for you, Garibaldi, I'm sure the people of GAWg are sooo proud that one of their company grade "Officers" publicly calling children derogatory names. Probably just as proud as when you finally figured out how to use polysyllabic words!
You both represent the worst of CAP and CAPTalk. I pray that some day the fates provide you with an opportunity to atone to the Cadets you've wronged.
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
You both represent the worst of CAP and CAPTalk. I pray that some day the fates provide you with an opportunity to atone to the Cadets you've wronged.
I think you're supposed to use supplemental O2 when your horse is that high.
Quote from: NIN on April 08, 2014, 08:11:05 PM
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
You both represent the worst of CAP and CAPTalk. I pray that some day the fates provide you with an opportunity to atone to the Cadets you've wronged.
I think you're supposed to use supplemental O2 when your horse is that high.
It's sad you don't realize how pathetic you are by picking on children.
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:18:04 PM
Quote from: NIN on April 08, 2014, 08:11:05 PM
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
You both represent the worst of CAP and CAPTalk. I pray that some day the fates provide you with an opportunity to atone to the Cadets you've wronged.
I think you're supposed to use supplemental O2 when your horse is that high.
It's sad you don't realize how pathetic you are by picking on children.
Nobody is picking on children.
If you walk into a Region conference banquet, in a hosed up or incorrect uni, somebody is gonna snap of photo of it and use it in a "what to avoid" lesson. If you're that concerned about it, how about using all of your special lawyery powers and have all photographic equipment banned from the conferences. That way, nobody can be "picked on"....Could it have been presented differently? Mebbe. Bad, NIN, bad...As for your comment to Garibaldi, you do know what high speed/low drag means, right? Since you have the finger on the pulse of the organization...
Get over yourself. There are bigger issues than this.
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:18:04 PM
It's sad you don't realize how pathetic you are by picking on children.
It's sad you don't get that I'm not picking on those two cadets, but rather the leadership that allowed two cadets to attend a region conference in a uniform that wasn't the specified uniform of the day.
That photo and those uniforms are not those cadet 's fault. Not did I say it was.
But I'm sure it feels good to anonymously snipe at people on the internet.
I agree with most of what Ratatouille wrote in his pointing out that some here have, intentionally or not, been too pointed with their criticism in this matter where brand new, young cadets are involved. Ratatouille got on a high horse, true, but he's right on substance.
Let's try to do two things here in the future.
(1) If using a photo to remark about uniform stuff, photoshop the identifying info out of the picture. Blur the phases and wing patches, etc.
(2) Moderate the discourse a bit and offer posts with a bit more nuance and less generalization. BDUs are not ordinarily acceptable banquet attire, but there are plausible explanations here.
Sometimes CAPTalk is great. Too often, well, it brings out the worst, even among our best.
Quote from: SamFranklin on April 08, 2014, 08:32:43 PM
(1) If using a photo to remark about uniform stuff, photoshop the identifying info out of the picture. Blur the phases and wing patches, etc.
Public photo, public comment.
Well, since you don't know even what wing it is because there are no visible wing patches, nor are there any visible name tags, it's really kind of tough to determine who those cadets are anyway.
Its not like I said "Check out Cadet Schmuckatelli and his brother here at the Idaho Wing Conference on January 28th, 2014"
Does anybody here know who those two cadets are? Doubtful.
The point remains however, that we can't get people to show up to activities in appropriate uniforms. Commanders don't enforce the concept of appropriate uniforms. Nobody seems to understand which uniform is "appropriate" even when a specific uniform has been deemed to be the one to wear.
Instead, we are happy with "Well, at least you are in -a- uniform."
(ETA: BTW, that photo was from a wing's Facebook page, so yeah, you can bug them about the PAO process, while you're at it)
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
And while you're being all super-internet lawyer-y with your oh-so-powerful copyright disclaimer ™©, I hope you had clear permission from the people in that picture to publicly post it in an unofficial forum. This actual lawyer here recognized a Cadet and Senior Member in the picture, will be contacting them and the Cadets' parents to let them know, and will gladly serve you with a cease-and-desist notice pro bono.
I was on my phone earlier and quoting is just a royal pain, but this should be addressed in any case:
1) If you'd been around for any length of time, you'd get the joke behind that copyright disclaimer. I'm not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV, and the last night I spent in a hotel wasn't even at a Holiday Inn Express, so I'm clearly not the legal beagle you are. For the record: the disclaimer in my sig was due to a post of mine here on CAP-Talk winding up on a blog someplace and being misquoted and misrepresented. Would it stop anybody? Probably not. It became a bit of a tongue-in-cheek joke, however, and it stayed.
2) As a super high powered pro-bono legal beagle, you ought to be aware (or should soon familiarize yourself with the appropriate case law, so you can correctly frame your cease-and-desist demand) that photos taken in a public place and posted on a public website (in this case, a Wing's Facebook page) basically hold little or no expectation of privacy. You should look closer: that photo is embedded from Facebook. I didn't take it.
3) I'm glad you recognized a cadet and senior member in the photo. Great skill that. Here's a cookie. (http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/cookie.gif)
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
Quote from: Garibaldi on April 08, 2014, 12:08:15 AMMore than likely Cadet Highspeed and Cadet Lowdrag just chose to ignore the directive and attended because that was the only uniform they had, and didn't think to wonder if a formal event MIGHT mean nice clothes. I mean, kids go to church in rags these days, so what's their guideline?
Same goes for you, Garibaldi, I'm sure the people of GAWg are sooo proud that one of their company grade "Officers" publicly calling children derogatory names. Probably just as proud as when you finally figured out how to use polysyllabic words!
You both represent the worst of CAP and CAPTalk. I pray that some day the fates provide you with an opportunity to atone to the Cadets you've wronged.
Counselor,
I'm going to guess that you are not prior military. If you were, you would undoubtedly know that calling someone Highspeed and/or low drag (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=high+speed%2C+low+drag) is actually a complement, and not derogatory.
Classic CT furball involving miscommunication and hypersensitivity. Add a lawyer to the mix and it has great explosive potential. I should know. 8)
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
Quote from: NIN on April 07, 2014, 04:59:35 PM
Speaking of "a BDU" option:
BDUs at a region conference banquet where the specified *minimum* uniform was Service Dress (or corp equiv).
Really? Why don't we just not bother with uniforms at all and let everybody come to CAP in flip flops and torn jeans?
Wow! Way to publicly pick on a pair of 12 or 13 year-olds behind their back in a way wherein they can't possibly defend themselves! It must make your oak leaves feel extra silvery to be able to stand up to a bunch of children and point out their faults so well!
And while you're being all super-internet lawyer-y with your oh-so-powerful copyright disclaimer ™©, I hope you had clear permission from the people in that picture to publicly post it in an unofficial forum. This actual lawyer here recognized a Cadet and Senior Member in the picture, will be contacting them and the Cadets' parents to let them know, and will gladly serve you with a cease-and-desist notice pro bono.
Quote from: Garibaldi on April 08, 2014, 12:08:15 AMMore than likely Cadet Highspeed and Cadet Lowdrag just chose to ignore the directive and attended because that was the only uniform they had, and didn't think to wonder if a formal event MIGHT mean nice clothes. I mean, kids go to church in rags these days, so what's their guideline?
Same goes for you, Garibaldi, I'm sure the people of GAWg are sooo proud that one of their company grade "Officers" publicly calling children derogatory names. Probably just as proud as when you finally figured out how to use polysyllabic words!
You both represent the worst of CAP and CAPTalk. I pray that some day the fates provide you with an opportunity to atone to the Cadets you've wronged.
I had a series of lengthy retorts planned, but then I realized I had better things to do besides elevate my blood pressure and respond to such troll bait.
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:05:06 PMYou both represent the worst of CAP and CAPTalk. I pray that some day the fates provide you with an opportunity to atone to the Cadets you've wronged.
Wow, really? The worst of CAP? No hyperbole going on there?
I mean, on the Continuum of Things People Have Gotten Kicked Out of CAP For, I'm sure at least some actions are worse than what was posted in this thread.
I anticipate a letter of protest and a CAD regarding my and NIN's participation in CAP coming soon. I will hold my breath.
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
Quote from: NIN on April 07, 2014, 04:59:35 PM
Speaking of "a BDU" option:
BDUs at a region conference banquet where the specified *minimum* uniform was Service Dress (or corp equiv).
Really? Why don't we just not bother with uniforms at all and let everybody come to CAP in flip flops and torn jeans?
Wow! Way to publicly pick on a pair of 12 or 13 year-olds behind their back in a way wherein they can't possibly defend themselves! It must make your oak leaves feel extra silvery to be able to stand up to a bunch of children and point out their faults so well!
And while you're being all super-internet lawyer-y with your oh-so-powerful copyright disclaimer ™©, I hope you had clear permission from the people in that picture to publicly post it in an unofficial forum. This actual lawyer here recognized a Cadet and Senior Member in the picture, will be contacting them and the Cadets' parents to let them know, and will gladly serve you with a cease-and-desist notice pro bono.
Quote from: Garibaldi on April 08, 2014, 12:08:15 AMMore than likely Cadet Highspeed and Cadet Lowdrag just chose to ignore the directive and attended because that was the only uniform they had, and didn't think to wonder if a formal event MIGHT mean nice clothes. I mean, kids go to church in rags these days, so what's their guideline?
Same goes for you, Garibaldi, I'm sure the people of GAWg are sooo proud that one of their company grade "Officers" publicly calling children derogatory names. Probably just as proud as when you finally figured out how to use polysyllabic words!
You both represent the worst of CAP and CAPTalk. I pray that some day the fates provide you with an opportunity to atone to the Cadets you've wronged.
Good luck with that C&D. You must be a real fun guy to be around.
Quote from: Garibaldi on April 08, 2014, 11:54:35 PM
I anticipate a letter of protest and a CAD regarding my and NIN's participation in CAP coming soon. I will hold my breath.
(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003583253/1956715183_You_cant_handle_the_truth6_answer_3_xlarge.png)
Quote from: Ned on April 08, 2014, 09:37:13 PM
Quote from: Ratatouille on April 08, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
Quote from: Garibaldi on April 08, 2014, 12:08:15 AMMore than likely Cadet Highspeed and Cadet Lowdrag just chose to ignore the directive and attended because that was the only uniform they had, and didn't think to wonder if a formal event MIGHT mean nice clothes. I mean, kids go to church in rags these days, so what's their guideline?
Same goes for you, Garibaldi, I'm sure the people of GAWg are sooo proud that one of their company grade "Officers" publicly calling children derogatory names. Probably just as proud as when you finally figured out how to use polysyllabic words!
You both represent the worst of CAP and CAPTalk. I pray that some day the fates provide you with an opportunity to atone to the Cadets you've wronged.
Counselor,
I'm going to guess that you are not prior military. If you were, you would undoubtedly know that calling someone Highspeed and/or low drag (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=high+speed%2C+low+drag) is actually a complement, and not derogatory.
Classic CT furball involving miscommunication and hypersensitivity. Add a lawyer to the mix and it has great explosive potential. I should know. 8)
Coming from the Army.... We only call people "high speed" when we're being sarcastic. YMMV.