Is 'Day of Infamy' fading from our memories?

Started by Eclipse, December 07, 2007, 08:00:55 PM

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mikeylikey

Quote from: flyguy06 on December 08, 2007, 03:25:50 AM
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on December 07, 2007, 11:01:38 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 07, 2007, 10:41:26 PM
Just curious why you guys put so much emphasis on this day. People dont think about Martin L. King day either and nobody seems to make an issue of it. Guess it depends on who you are talking to.

Umm... apples and oranges.

My point is this is a post abouthow people have forgotten about a certain day in history. My point is that a lot of important days in the history of America are not as emphasised as others. That just goes with time

That is because past and current leaders of American Government don't want to offend certain groups, choose sides, or make any kind decision that may hamper their political desires and dreams.  I read an article that said Lincoln's birthday, Washington's birthday once were celebrated, until "Presidents Day" was invented.  I believe it has to do with apeeasing certain groups in this country.  "don't want to tip the boat" mentality often comes up in our Political arena's.
What's up monkeys?

Monty

#21
As alluded to earlier, "Day of Infamy" will pass into history as nothing more than a history mention.

But as also alluded to earlier, there's a LOT of emphasis on the World War 2 History Channel, as it seems like every time I flipped past that channel it was another story about storming this beach or taking that island, etc.

I honestly can't recall ever hearing anybody make any sort of specific comment on Veterans' Day about the American servicemen who died during the War of 1812, or the Mexican American war.  "It's a Long Way to Tipperary" means jack squat to the common John and Jane Q. Public....sadly, just like "a day that will live in infamy" will soon be.

For example, in the rare case we recall the Civil War (generally considered the most deadly conflict), it's normally remembered by direct descendents or otherwise, relegated to the "all the rest who gave their lives" pile when thinking about veterans - can't recall anybody remembering or celebrating the day the Yanks walked in to Richmond; can you?  Folks don't get emotional about Andersonville, or with regard to other conflicts, few stop and think about Fort McHenry...most don't know where Fort Ticonderoga is or what it is....

And this also includes many folks who are "long in the tooth" too, in the event that some folks think the sole reason why "them dang kids" don't know history is because of America's ever-increasing infatuation with "skin deep" exposure to most things of the past.

America (legitimately, in many cases) does much better at remembering when names are put with faces.  When the days of "My Grandpa was at..." pass, I'd expect WWII to be relegated to the same book section as the War of 1812, Civil War, Span/Am War, etc.

I do better than most Americans (even without the history channel) because I am lucky enough to have the documentation, which ties my people to history.  BUT.....the majority of old and young will only be in touch with that which television pipes into their brains.

-Monty

GGGGG Grandson of Robert Montgomery, NC Militia (service did not exceed 6 mos)
GGG Grandson of John C. Montgomery, 41st Al. Vol. Inf. Rgt. Co. G., '62-'65
GGG Grandson of James R. McCormick, 104th Ill. Vol. Inf. Rgt. Co. B. '62-'65
Grandson of Korean War Vet (Name withheld, still alive)
Nephew of Vietnam War Vet (Name withheld, still alive)
Husband of an OIF Vet (Name withheld, still alive)

JCW0312

Quote from: flyguy06 on December 08, 2007, 03:25:50 AM
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on December 07, 2007, 11:01:38 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 07, 2007, 10:41:26 PM
Just curious why you guys put so much emphasis on this day. People dont think about Martin L. King day either and nobody seems to make an issue of it. Guess it depends on who you are talking to.

Umm... apples and oranges.


My point is this is a post abouthow people have forgotten about a certain day in history. My point is that a lot of important days in the history of America are not as emphasised as others. That just goes with time

Well, MLK day is a "holiday", but 07 Dec is not (I guess Veterans day will have to suffice). I see your point though - to too many people, MLK day is just an extra day off work with no reflection given to the reason for it.

Back to topic - I was proud of the military channel today - shows pertaining to 07Dec1941 almost all day. Most of us would expect it from the military channel anyway, but still, kudos to them.
Jon Williams, 2d Lt, CAP
Memphis Belle Memorial Squadron
SER-TN-144

flyguy06

So, I guess this beckons another question I have.

Is it the assumption that MLK day is for a certain group of people in America?

Cobra1597

#24
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 08, 2007, 03:54:06 AM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 07, 2007, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 07, 2007, 10:32:13 PM
Now, Hollywood makes anti-American films depicting the terrorists as heroes and G.I.'s as villains

Name one that has come out in recent years. I cannot think of a SINGLE movie that did that.

I can name a lot of movies that portray terrorists as the villains, and GI's as the heroes, Blackhawk Down, for example.

"Redacted"

Also, some movie with the uber-leftists Robert Redford and Tom Cruise, I forget the name of it.

"Munich" that depicted the Black September terrorists that attacked the Olympics in 1972 as heroes and ultimately victims of the evil Israeli Mossad.

Even Blackhawk down and United 93, which were sympathetic to Americans, chose to emphasize American battle losses.  I'd like to see a movie about the succesful operation to insert SF troops in with the Northern Alliance when they ran the Taliban out of town.  How about a movie about the FBI stopping a terrorist attack (Which has happened several times) or the Battle of Fallujah where the Marines had to fight house-to-house?

As far as I know, that new Cruise and Redford movie depicts a senator as a villain, not a single US G.I. The GIs are depicted as victims of an uncaring government fighting to stay alive, or at least that is what I gather from the previews.

Munich is about Moussad, not US GIs, fail again. Not to mention the fact that the movie most definitely did not depict the terrorist as heroes. Not in the *expletive* least. The movie was by Spielberg, a Jew.

Recognizing US casualties that happened is making GIs villains? I suppose you would prefer we lie, and say no one died. Oh yeah, you didn't seem to notice the dead Somalis on every street corner. If anything emphasizing the emotion regarding the American's dying was to make the point that it is tragic when Americans die. You don't think it is sad when a GI dies? Have you had any family die in war? My cousin, an LTC in the Marines and a Cobra pilot, died in Iraq, I went to a funeral where I was brought to tears, and have two young cousins growing up without a father. It is tragic when a GI dies.

I'm getting the point of saying you are nearing madness.
Harrison Ingraham, Capt, CAP
MAWG External Aerospace Education Officer, ADY
Spaatz #1597

Eclipse

Quote from: mikeylikey on December 08, 2007, 04:24:12 AMI read an article that said Lincoln's birthday, Washington's birthday once were celebrated, until "Presidents Day" was invented.  I believe it has to do with apeeasing certain groups in this country.  "don't want to tip the boat" mentality often comes up in our Political arena's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidents'_Day_(United_States)

It appears it was as much a situation with businesses as anything else....

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: Active Monty on December 08, 2007, 04:41:12 AM
I honestly can't recall ever hearing anybody make any sort of specific comment on Veterans' Day about the American servicemen who died during the War of 1812, or the Mexican American war.  "It's a Long Way to Tipperary" means jack squat to the common John and Jane Q. Public....sadly, just like "a day that will live in infamy" will soon be.

For example, in the rare case we recall the Civil War (generally considered the most deadly conflict), it's normally remembered by direct descendants or otherwise, relegated to the "all the rest who gave their lives" pile when thinking about veterans - can't recall anybody remembering or celebrating the day the Yanks walked in to Richmond; can you?  Folks don't get emotional about Andersonville, or with regard to other conflicts, few stop and think about Fort McHenry...most don't know where Fort Ticonderoga is or what it is....alive)
From a public consciousness standpoint, WWII still has a lot "going for it".

It was the last "good" war.

Many fighters, some in positions of power in the world (or recently in power) are still alive.

There is plenty of clear movie footage.

We are still dealing with some of the ramifications of the conflict daily.

1812, the civil war, and even WWI do not share these traits, and have been legit history for a couple of decades.

Not saying its right, just that it is....

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: JCW0312 on December 08, 2007, 04:55:42 AM
Well, MLK day is a "holiday", but 07 Dec is not (I guess Veterans day will have to suffice). I see your point though - to too many people, MLK day is just an extra day off work with no reflection given to the reason for it.

MLK day celebrates the man for who he was.

However to "celebrate" 7 Dec, just as "celebrating" Patriot Day would be wrong, these were not bright spots in our history. They shoudl be commemorated, but not celebrated with a day off work, etc.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 08, 2007, 03:54:06 AM
I'd like to see a movie about the succesful operation to insert SF troops in with the Northern Alliance when they ran the Taliban out of town.  How about a movie about the FBI stopping a terrorist attack (Which has happened several times) or the Battle of Fallujah where the Marines had to fight house-to-house?

You will, just give it a little time.

Since we have real-time video every day (unlike WWII), we don't need propaganda films from Hollywood to keep us fired.  These days I think its appropriate to let things cool a bit and get the full story before rolling cameras.

"That Others May Zoom"

mikeylikey

Quote from: Eclipse on December 08, 2007, 07:36:17 AM
Quote from: JCW0312 on December 08, 2007, 04:55:42 AM
Well, MLK day is a "holiday", but 07 Dec is not (I guess Veterans day will have to suffice). I see your point though - to too many people, MLK day is just an extra day off work with no reflection given to the reason for it.

MLK day celebrates the man for who he was.

However to "celebrate" 7 Dec, just as "celebrating" Patriot Day would be wrong, these were not bright spots in our history. They should be commemorated, but not celebrated with a day off work, etc.

Although I enjoy the day off from work on MLK Day, How long will this country celebrate that day.  I would rather celebrate the "civil rights remembrance day" than celebrate a day attributed to any one man.  That pretty much says "he did everything for the movement, he is the only one we will remember.  If we celebrate his day, why are we not celebrating anything for the womens suffrage movement?  Some of them are still alive. 

What's up monkeys?

JCW0312

Quote from: mikeylikey on December 08, 2007, 02:07:20 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on December 08, 2007, 07:36:17 AM
Quote from: JCW0312 on December 08, 2007, 04:55:42 AM
Well, MLK day is a "holiday", but 07 Dec is not (I guess Veterans day will have to suffice). I see your point though - to too many people, MLK day is just an extra day off work with no reflection given to the reason for it.

MLK day celebrates the man for who he was.

However to "celebrate" 7 Dec, just as "celebrating" Patriot Day would be wrong, these were not bright spots in our history. They should be commemorated, but not celebrated with a day off work, etc.

Although I enjoy the day off from work on MLK Day, How long will this country celebrate that day.  I would rather celebrate the "civil rights remembrance day" than celebrate a day attributed to any one man.  That pretty much says "he did everything for the movement, he is the only one we will remember.  If we celebrate his day, why are we not celebrating anything for the womens suffrage movement?  Some of them are still alive. 



I agree. Even within the civil rights movement there were others who were very instrumental in the movement. Why not make the date "civil rights memorial day"?

[Topic Drift]
Jon Williams, 2d Lt, CAP
Memphis Belle Memorial Squadron
SER-TN-144

JCW0312

Quote from: Eclipse on December 08, 2007, 07:36:17 AM
Quote from: JCW0312 on December 08, 2007, 04:55:42 AM
Well, MLK day is a "holiday", but 07 Dec is not (I guess Veterans day will have to suffice). I see your point though - to too many people, MLK day is just an extra day off work with no reflection given to the reason for it.

MLK day celebrates the man for who he was.

However to "celebrate" 7 Dec, just as "celebrating" Patriot Day would be wrong, these were not bright spots in our history. They shoudl be commemorated, but not celebrated with a day off work, etc.

I'm not saying we should celebrate Dec 7 as a holiday. I was just commenting that MLK day is a holiday and people don't even reflect on its reason half the time.
Jon Williams, 2d Lt, CAP
Memphis Belle Memorial Squadron
SER-TN-144

mikeylikey

Quote from: flyguy06 on December 08, 2007, 06:58:58 AM
So, I guess this beckons another question I have.

Is it the assumption that MLK day is for a certain group of people in America?

Yes!  The American People.  Who were you thinking?
What's up monkeys?

JCW0312

^The rights protected for any people helps to ensure the rights for all people.
Jon Williams, 2d Lt, CAP
Memphis Belle Memorial Squadron
SER-TN-144

FlyingTerp

I think this topic is drifting and becoming more of a comparison between certain holidays and historic days in our nation's history.

That being said, 12-7 and 9-11 are synonymous in my opinion.  They are days in history that warn us what happens when our guard is down, and when they fade from our memories, events like them are more likely to occur again.

Here's a picture from my trip last year to the Arizona Memorial:



God Bless the fallen and thank you to those that serve...

flyguy06

Quote from: mikeylikey on December 08, 2007, 03:26:25 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 08, 2007, 06:58:58 AM
So, I guess this beckons another question I have.

Is it the assumption that MLK day is for a certain group of people in America?

Yes!  The American People.  Who were you thinking?
Oh, I agree . But you know what most people wil think. Or do you?

Flying Pig

Lets get off the race issue.   Your trying to bait people into an argument.   This thread started with asking about Dec. 7th and suddenly goes to "What about Martin Luther King Day?"  Huh?  If you want that discussion, then post it somewhere else, preferrably another site, and those who are interested can choose to discuss it with you.

Back on topic, where I am, there was almost no mention of Dec 7th.  It was pretty sad.

flyguy06

With all due respect Flying Pig (cause you know you are my boy) its not a race issue at all. I wasnt even going there until you mentioned it. Just because someone mentions the name of an African American does not mean it HAS to be a race issue. Your statement in itself made it a race issue because I honestly wasnt even thinking about that. It is possible to mention the name of a Black person without thinking race.

"Now back to our regularly scheduled program" ;D

Eclipse

Hickam commemorates 66th anniversary of attack on Hickam Field

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123078710



Airmen from the Professional Military Education Center at Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii, presented a U.S. flag that was flown over Atterbury Memorial Park to each of five survivors and one widow of a survivor of the Dec. 7, 1941, attack on Hickam Field. The ceremony, an annual tradition, was held in the Courtyard of Heroes lobby in the Pacific Air Forces headquarters building. (U.S. Air Force photo/Oscar Hernandez)

"That Others May Zoom"

SAR-EMT1

December Seventh will forever be a day etched on my heart.
Not just for the attack on Pearl Harbor (I had a great uncle there), but also because of something more personal.

Friday December 7, 2007 a friend I grew up with was laid to rest after losing his life in Iraq. His name was Cpl Allen Roberts, USMC
C. A. Edgar
AUX USCG Flotilla 8-8
Former CC / GLR-IL-328
Firefighter, Paramedic, Grad Student