Wow! CAP orders 36 New Airplanes

[etodd]

Page 8 of today's Volunteer. Nice article:

https://www.cap.news/volunteer-spring-2023/

2021 the AF sponsored research into CAP's needs and this year approved 36 new planes.

21 - 172
9 - 182T
4 - T182T
2 - T206

Excited about the 172s, as they are best as a Primary Trainer. Maybe more CAP CFIs will step up and help start training Cadets in their squadrons.

[heliodoc]

Being a former 1970s cadet who had to buy his tickets on the economy AKA FBOs after solo encampment 1975...we might want to consider more seriously,  buying some more CFIs in Wings that are sorely in need gor them. The new CAP might want to assist those in CAP who desire their CFI tickets a more streamlined operation in gaining that. There was a survey a year ago withe question "would i become a CFI if CAP was initiate a program?" I'm more worried about the CFIs and the about to retire CDIs in CAP....it would benefit BOTH cadets and SMs. CAP may want to cater to both worlds and assess those Wings with staffing issues. CAP cadets don't become pilots without adult CAPers

[etodd]

.... CAP might want to assist those in CAP who desire their CFI tickets a more streamlined operation in gaining that.....

That was me about 5 years ago, a CAP private pilot. Lucky enough to be in a great squadron with 3 CFIs. Renting the CAP 172S/G1000, and free instruction, I ripped through IFR, Commercial, CFI, and CFII in about 3 years time, all in the same 172. It can be done.  And very economical, by comparision.

Now its payback time. I started teaching a Cadet in our squadron last year, and this month he passed his private checkride.

Its a very rewarding feeling to pass it along. I hope we have more and more  CFIs that will as well.

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

One of the things Gen Phelka spoke of during conference this weekend was a plan to pay for pilots to get their CFI in order to instruct cadets, with the expectation that they'll donate their time for two flight academies to repay the training. Very cool idea. He also specifically indicated that those new 172s are being purchased with flight training in mind.

[heliodoc]

Haven't heard much about this as of late. Has there been any movement?

It s a good to great idea.....Phelka probably gets it, prior NHQ CCs?

[Fubar]

Moving to 172s seems to suggest CAP is giving up on the "emergency services" type flight hours. A 172 is a great training platform, but they won't have direction finding equipment in them and they generally can't carry three average sized aircrew members for SAR and photo missions. They work OK for o-flights.

That's a lot of money to spend just so we can compete with flight schools.

[etodd]

Moving to 172s seems to suggest CAP is giving up on the "emergency services" type flight hours. A 172 is a great training platform, but they won't have direction finding equipment in them and they generally can't carry three average sized aircrew members for SAR and photo missions. They work OK for o-flights.

That's a lot of money to spend just so we can compete with flight schools.

My squadron has done quite a bit of SAR and photo missions in our 172 with three onboard. But ... our members are a bit slimmer than the average CAP senior member.   IOW ... its not always the airplane.

[etodd]

One of the things Gen Phelka spoke of during conference this weekend was a plan to pay for pilots to get their CFI in order to instruct cadets, with the expectation that they'll donate their time for two flight academies to repay the training. Very cool idea. He also specifically indicated that those new 172s are being purchased with flight training in mind.

Good idea, but, That would have left me out. I could not have taken off work to teach at an academy. I taught our Cadet locally. Lessons on weekdays after school and then some on weekends. Got it done. Hopefully CAP programs will also encourage local teaching. Better scheduling opportunities, and a Cadet can go from start to finish with a CFI.

[heliodoc]

Good Idea, Handsome

But I venture to say:  Most of the cadet flying probably happens AFTER a 7-10 run at an NFA

So to "assign/confine to make a cadet shine" usually happens at the local level after solo encampment!!

[coudano]

Moving to 172s seems to suggest CAP is giving up on the "emergency services" type flight hours. A 172 is a great training platform, but they won't have direction finding equipment in them and they generally can't carry three average sized aircrew members for SAR and photo missions. They work OK for o-flights.

That's a lot of money to spend just so we can compete with flight schools.

I'm not sure i've ever flown or crewed a CAP C172 that wasn't DF equipped.
Infact I can't remember the last time I saw one that wasn't becker equipped, with my own eyes (at least a decade?)

I have definitely been in C172's that were capable of 3 'average sized' CAP members (and by that, I mean I just ran w&b in foreflight at 240, 220, and 200).   On the other hand that particular airplane isn't a G1000 equipped airplane, and doesn't have some of the heavier hardware that is probably standard these days.  I don't know what sort of package CAP would order for a crapton of 172's, but one would think that useful load would be a fairly precient concern.

[PHall]

Moving to 172s seems to suggest CAP is giving up on the "emergency services" type flight hours. A 172 is a great training platform, but they won't have direction finding equipment in them and they generally can't carry three average sized aircrew members for SAR and photo missions. They work OK for o-flights.

That's a lot of money to spend just so we can compete with flight schools.

You assume you need three on board for an AP mission, why?
A MP in the left seat and the AP in the right seat works just fine.

[Fubar]

You assume you need three on board for an AP mission, why?
A MP in the left seat and the AP in the right seat works just fine.

The photo window typically is in the back, plus less obstructions for taking photos. I dunno if this should be a factor or not, but there's also member retention - the more people who get to be involved the better.

[PHall]

You do know the primary mission of the 172's is supposed to be for flight training, right?
ES is a secondary mission for these aircraft. CAP's flying mission is changing and the fleet is changing to support the flying we do today.

[etodd]

The photo window typically is in the back, plus less obstructions for taking photos.

Never liked shooting out the small photo window. I open the right front window, wind keeps it up, and is much easier to shoot.

[etodd]

I don't know what sort of package CAP would order for a crapton of 172's, but one would think that useful load would be a fairly precient concern.

Our 2015 172s/G1000 with 40 gallons of fuel, gives us about 550 lbs for people. Three normal size people easy.

We always refuel just to 40 gallons for this reason. Which is plenty. Fly for 3 hours and land with an hour reserve. (My bladder limits is 3 hours as well. LOL)

[Larry Mangum]

C172's work fine east of the Rockies, but not so much to the west. Most wings out west are heavy on C-182 variants and C-206's when they can get them. C-172's were few and far between and only used for cadet training.

[NIN]

One of the things Gen Phelka spoke of during conference this weekend was a plan to pay for pilots to get their CFI in order to instruct cadets, with the expectation that they'll donate their time for two flight academies to repay the training. Very cool idea. He also specifically indicated that those new 172s are being purchased with flight training in mind.

This^^ (HandsomeWalt & I were at the same conference, heard the same words out of the General's mouth).

The only concern about fleet mix that I have is that 172s are, by and large, not super great platforms for other missions (ie. photography) besides training or cadet orientation flights. If we're committing to Cadet Wings/RPP and other "produce pilots" programs, those 172s should largely be a slight increase to our fleet, not a net-negative by taking mission-capable airframes out of the mix and replacing them with "training-specific" airframes.  (Example: in my wing, we have 2 172s, one of which is about to be sold in the next 5 months or so. For our mission mix, replacing the departing 172 with another 172 doesn't make sense: we're not doing so much flight training that we're even taxing either of the 172s we have now, let alone both. But we're always short on planes during our missions due to mx and such)

[PHall]

One of the things Gen Phelka spoke of during conference this weekend was a plan to pay for pilots to get their CFI in order to instruct cadets, with the expectation that they'll donate their time for two flight academies to repay the training. Very cool idea. He also specifically indicated that those new 172s are being purchased with flight training in mind.

This^^ (HandsomeWalt & I were at the same conference, heard the same words out of the General's mouth).

The only concern about fleet mix that I have is that 172s are, by and large, not super great platforms for other missions (ie. photography) besides training or cadet orientation flights. If we're committing to Cadet Wings/RPP and other "produce pilots" programs, those 172s should largely be a slight increase to our fleet, not a net-negative by taking mission-capable airframes out of the mix and replacing them with "training-specific" airframes.  (Example: in my wing, we have 2 172s, one of which is about to be sold in the next 5 months or so. For our mission mix, replacing the departing 172 with another 172 doesn't make sense: we're not doing so much flight training that we're even taxing either of the 172s we have now, let alone both. But we're always short on planes during our missions due to mx and such)

Actually we need to take a hard look at our current aircraft fleet. Many of those airframes were acquired back when we were flying lot and lots of ELT searches which isn't the case today.
We need to first figure out what is our current flying mission today is and then we can shape the fleet to meet those needs.

[Shuman 14]

Maybe we should order some AT-802's. Then we can help train future USAF SPEC-OPS pilots. 

[Fubar]

Actually we need to take a hard look at our current aircraft fleet. Many of those airframes were acquired back when we were flying lot and lots of ELT searches which isn't the case today.

We need to first figure out what is our current flying mission today is and then we can shape the fleet to meet those needs.

Hopefully that's what the Air Force study did (I haven't seen it and I don't know if it's been published). That's why I find it interesting that the order is so focused on flight training, it's almost as if the study thinks we don't have missions to fly anymore and should focus on training kids to fly for the Air Force.