1949 Problems - CAP Uniforms, Grade and Saluting

Started by sardak, October 29, 2014, 04:58:49 pm

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: Eclipse on November 05, 2014, 10:09:17 pm
Motivation, personality, comfort zones, & behavioral experience are essentially irrelevant, and frankly a lot of that is what people trot out as excuses.


Your opinion of course, and based on your personal experience, which I will not try to discredit.  However, I believe the adage "unless you've walked a mile in another's shoes..." applies.  However, you seem to contradict your earlier statement:

"Or related, the made-up, subjective bar is different for almost every member so things get denied when they should be approved?"

A former commander of mine in another wing told me (verbatim) "You should have been a Major 10 years ago, and you will be once you finish out your TIG here."

Unfortunately, that was the unit where an IG I initiated went down, the GOBN at Wing fired my CC for supporting me and countersigning the IG complaint I lodged, and I left, as we were going to be moving soon anyway.

JeffDG, I respect your opinion as well, but I do not agree with it, nor do I believe that I have the "entitlement mentality" that Private Investigator noted.  I was a hardscrabble kid who came from a background where you got nothing for nothing and often nothing for something.  If I hadn't fought out of that, I wouldn't be here today, and, without trying to sound arrogant, was a hell of a lot harder than trying to meet an arbitrary CAP promotion standard that is going to be different depending on who is applying it.

Hier stehe ich.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

Storm Chaser

I don't mean to question your experience, which is very personal and not necessarily a reflection of CAP as a whole. But there are many with ISFJ personality traits who are very successful in business, government, the military and non-profit organizations such as CAP. Your example of Sir Hugh Dowding is proof of that.

Maybe you got a bad deal and maybe other members have as well. But that's true in the government and private sectors as well. Life is not always fair. But to suggest that because you or others experienced a setback, that anyone who has been able to succeed in this system had to play politics or be part of the GOBN is an unfair generalization. And it's just not true.

While I don't know all the details of your particular situation, it's obvious by your own posts that you're unable (or unwilling) to participate in CAP beyond the unit level. You've mentioned health issues and personality traits (being an introvert) as reasons for not being able to do more. Fair enough. But from a commander's perspective, it's hard to recommend or approve a promotion to a level in which, by your own admission, you're not performing.

I'm sure you're a fine officer and gentleman. But if you want a promotion to major, you need to be able to perform as a major. Promotions should not be merely a reward for what you've done in the past, but recognition of what you can and will do now and in the future.

flyboy53

November 07, 2014, 09:23:28 am #62 Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 09:54:01 am by flyboy1
Quote from: Eclipse on November 05, 2014, 10:09:17 pm
Motivation, personality, comfort zones, & behavioral experience are essentially irrelevant, and frankly a lot of that
is what people trot out as excuses.

If you are unwilling or unable to participate at a scope larger then the squadron level, then promotion above Major is inappropriate.
There's nothing wrong with staying at the squadron, those contributions are important and necessary to CAPs
operations, and if the pyramid was treated properly in CAP (i.e. NHQ's job is to serve the member, because it's the
members who execute the missions, not vice versa), then this would be understood better.

There's no way around that, and it's consistent with similar scope in the military.  For some reason there is resentment
about people who do more and are recognized for it.  On a personal level, that's your private right, but when you've
got your CAP shirt on, you should be thankful there are people who have the circumstances that enable them to
run encampments, NCSAs, flight academies, etc., or put in full-time-type hours, because without them, CAP grinds to
a halt. (With that said, if you're putting in full-time hours at the squadron level, your unit is broken.)

The problem is that without tying promotions to assignments, they are treated as rewards for work done instead
of the mantle of responsibility.

Quote from: CyBorg on November 05, 2014, 09:58:44 pmAt the same time, politics does play a part...if one has a commander who is insensitive to such things, instant brick wall.  If one has a commander willing to work with those who are not glad-handing "HEY HOWYA DOIN?!" extraverts, there are more possibilities.


If your unit of record is appropriate for the promotion expected, this is not an issue.

It's only when it isn't, and members expect a commander to advocate something they don't agree with that the hurt feelings
start.

Rare is the member who is assigned at the Group or wing level denied Major, or Wing or Region level denied Lt Col.
In cases where someone is assigned to a unit but serving ADY at a larger scope such as a Group/Wing/Region staff position,
significant contributor of a wing-level activity, or perhaps a major player in ES training, then it is short work for a commander
to justify the field grade promotions.

But if you're parked at a unit with limited ability to participate for personal reasons, then Captain is an appropriate
grade, and any further work on PD or projects should be recognized by PD levels and decorations.


True.

But I have seen situations were people were largely frozen at a certain rank and just languished, getting bitter, as the years passed. Some times it IS purely political. Early in my CAP career I watched as a highly confident engineer and pilot was denied getting his captain's rank back because he was perceived to be a threat to the squadron and group commanders. That individual was one of the original CAP organizers and a personal friend of Gil Robb Wilson. He was that unit's wartime first commander and had done active CAP service in WWII as a flight instructor to the AAF. There was a break in service. It took going over the group CC directly to NHQ to correct the issue. To see what unfolded was amazing even by today's standards because that individual had the proof to show that his promotion to captain came directly from Gen. John F. Curry.

Also, I have been in those situations were promotions were given out as rewards, only to get very frustrated because those same individuals only got in the way at missions or during the general process of running units.

I am as far as my CAP career will take me. As an officer, I think I had 10 years as a first lieutenant before it took a special appointment by a region commander to get me beyond lieutenant to captain, and that was largely because I held an AF assignment at base level (base liaison and I was responsible for the building) that directly impacted on the Region, the Wing, the Group and the Squadron on base.

Beyond that, however, it has been largely as you stated, meaning that I have moved up through the command ranks (I'm a former group commander with several wing assignments in different wings) to get me to where I am now.

My personal suggestion to Cyborg would have been to catch the eye of someone at group or wing level, and then accept the responsibility that goes with that assignment. You might have been surprised where that led.

The promotions system of this organization isn't perfect. You have to fill the squares and accept the responsibility. It takes time and patience...and you don't burn bridges along the way.

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: Storm Chaser on November 06, 2014, 07:23:25 pm
I don't mean to question your experience, which is very personal and not necessarily a reflection of CAP as a whole. But there are many with ISFJ personality traits who are very successful in business, government, the military and non-profit organizations such as CAP. Your example of Sir Hugh Dowding is proof of that.

Maybe you got a bad deal and maybe other members have as well. But that's true in the government and private sectors as well. Life is not always fair. But to suggest that because you or others experienced a setback, that anyone who has been able to succeed in this system had to play politics or be part of the GOBN is an unfair generalization. And it's just not true.

While I don't know all the details of your particular situation, it's obvious by your own posts that you're unable (or unwilling) to participate in CAP beyond the unit level. You've mentioned health issues and personality traits (being an introvert) as reasons for not being able to do more. Fair enough. But from a commander's perspective, it's hard to recommend or approve a promotion to a level in which, by your own admission, you're not performing.

I'm sure you're a fine officer and gentleman. But if you want a promotion to major, you need to be able to perform as a major. Promotions should not be merely a reward for what you've done in the past, but recognition of what you can and will do now and in the future.


PM sent.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

Private Investigator

I wonder if my grandchildren will ask me about the "Problems of 2007"?  8)