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HWSNBN and Harwell

Started by Archer, March 05, 2014, 07:44:58 AM

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rugger1869


Eclipse

#261
Quote from: FW on March 16, 2014, 11:57:13 AMHe said we have documents in the archives that are clear cut.

Then they should be published - hopefully the FOIA accomplishes that.

Quote from: FW on March 16, 2014, 11:57:13 AM
Kind of like cutting off the discussion about the "CSU" after reading the letter from the SECAF's office saying the uniform was acceptable. 

Funny how the "OK" letter exists, but the "great purge letter" doesn't.

CAP is many things, but a shadow organization it is not, and with the exception of a very narrow
lane for a few specific missions, there's simply no reason to make things up or play games with
decisions that affect the membership as a whole.

Standing up and saying "I (or we) decided this was wrong for CAP and therefore made the decision."
is leadership, sets the standard for behavior downstream, and ends discussions about "why".

Leaving things as "We heard and they might have said and we thought, so they did, and then this one time a SrA
didn't like us so we blah, blah, blah..." just perpetuates the Condo-Association mentality of the whys and hows things
get done, or don't, in CAP.

Credibility gap?  Yeah, we have issues, and they have nothing to do with the uniforms, they are primarily due to
having the curtains drawn back and people seeing us in the light of day.

Make a choice, live with it and by it, adjust if necessary.  If that is too much to ask, step aside and let others have their
chance.

"That Others May Zoom"

The CyBorg is destroyed

Exiled from GLR-MI-011

AlphaSigOU

Quote from: Cindi on March 16, 2014, 01:06:12 AM
I wish we had a distinctive uniform more along these lines:


RAF Flight Lieutenant  -ahem - Leftenant William Wales, KG, the Duke of Cambridge.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

AlphaSigOU

Quote from: rugger1869 on March 16, 2014, 05:18:33 PM
Quote from: NIN on March 16, 2014, 02:16:15 AM
So lets see it.

What audit? Who did the audit? HAF? CAP-USAF? 

An email from NHQ, sorry to say, reflecting an action that took place 25 years ago, is not what I would call "conclusive."

What does HAF mean? I saw this recently in another USAF context and I can't seem to find a definition.

Headquarters, U.S. Air Force.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: AlphaSigOU on March 17, 2014, 12:09:54 AM
Quote from: Cindi on March 16, 2014, 01:06:12 AM
I wish we had a distinctive uniform more along these lines:


RAF Flight Lieutenant  -ahem - Leftenant William Wales, KG, the Duke of Cambridge.

No, it's "Flight Lieutenant," not "Leftenant." The pronunciation doesn't change the spelling.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

Fubar

Quote from: Eclipse on March 16, 2014, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: FW on March 16, 2014, 11:57:13 AMHe said we have documents in the archives that are clear cut.

Then they should be published - hopefully the FOIA accomplishes that.

I know Eclipse isn't stating otherwise, but the Civil Air Patrol doesn't believe it falls under the FOIA:

https://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/233/kw/FOIA

And the historical foundation, who I think the aforementioned archives belong to is a separate private organization and also doesn't feel it falls under FOIA (even though it's run by CAP for CAP).

Just to clarify, anything we get will have to come from CAP-USAF.

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on March 17, 2014, 04:22:34 AM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on March 17, 2014, 12:09:54 AM
Quote from: Cindi on March 16, 2014, 01:06:12 AM
I wish we had a distinctive uniform more along these lines:


RAF Flight Lieutenant  -ahem - Leftenant William Wales, KG, the Duke of Cambridge.

No, it's "Flight Lieutenant," not "Leftenant." The pronunciation doesn't change the spelling.

I believe AlphaSigOU was just doing that as a pronunciation aid for Americans who don't know otherwise.

I've interacted with many members of the Canadian military (who also say "leftenant") so I've heard it many times...in fact, I often use it at my unit just to get a rise. ;D

When a cadet hears me say it, sometimes it's a teachable AE moment about the air forces of our allies.


Exiled from GLR-MI-011

SarDragon

Quote from: Fubar on March 17, 2014, 05:34:01 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 16, 2014, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: FW on March 16, 2014, 11:57:13 AMHe said we have documents in the archives that are clear cut.

Then they should be published - hopefully the FOIA accomplishes that.

I know Eclipse isn't stating otherwise, but the Civil Air Patrol doesn't believe it falls under the FOIA:

https://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/233/kw/FOIA

And the historical foundation, who I think the aforementioned archives belong to is a separate private organization and also doesn't feel it falls under FOIA (even though it's run by CAP for CAP).

Just to clarify, anything we get will have to come from CAP-USAF.

The KB statement is correct. CAP is not an instrumentality of the federal government. Organizationally, it is, first and foremost, a corporation.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

AlphaSigOU

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on March 17, 2014, 04:22:34 AM
No, it's "Flight Lieutenant," not "Leftenant." The pronunciation doesn't change the spelling.

That was intentional on my part... :)


KG - Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

Brit_in_CAP

#270
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on March 17, 2014, 12:09:54 AM
Quote from: Cindi on March 16, 2014, 01:06:12 AM
I wish we had a distinctive uniform more along these lines:


RAF Flight Lieutenant  -ahem - Leftenant William Wales, KG, the Duke of Cambridge.
Nice - spelling and pronunciation correct!
..and you should be jealous...it's a very fetching uniform!  I still have mine...can't get into it but still have it! 

That is...except the KG and the wings... ::)



Private Investigator

Quote from: Brit_in_CAP on March 17, 2014, 11:25:17 AM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on March 17, 2014, 12:09:54 AM
Quote from: Cindi on March 16, 2014, 01:06:12 AM
I wish we had a distinctive uniform more along these lines:


RAF Flight Lieutenant  -ahem - Leftenant William Wales, KG, the Duke of Cambridge.
Nice - spelling and pronunciation correct!
..and you should be jealous...it's a very fetching uniform!  I still have mine...can't get into it but still have it! 

That is...except the KG and the wings... ::)

Thank you sir for your expert opinion. Being honest, I am jealous, that is really sharp  :clap:

AlphaSigOU

Brit_In_CAP will probably correct me, but if I remember that's the RAF's "No. 1 Dress" uniform (equivalent to our service dress).
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

NIN

Quote from: Brit_in_CAP on March 17, 2014, 11:25:17 AM
Nice - spelling and pronunciation correct!
..and you should be jealous...it's a very fetching uniform!  I still have mine...can't get into it but still have it! 

Its cuz you boys are thin as racing snakes.  I have a set of #1s hanging in my closet that I can't fit into and it annoys me that after having lost > 50lbs, I STILL can't fit something.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
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Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Brit_in_CAP on March 17, 2014, 11:25:17 AM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on March 17, 2014, 12:09:54 AM
Quote from: Cindi on March 16, 2014, 01:06:12 AM
I wish we had a distinctive uniform more along these lines:


RAF Flight Lieutenant  -ahem - Leftenant William Wales, KG, the Duke of Cambridge.
Nice - spelling and pronunciation correct!
..and you should be jealous...it's a very fetching uniform!  I still have mine...can't get into it but still have it! 

That is...except the KG and the wings... ::)

The KG is a tough nut, but the wings can be had for 40 hours. At least, that's what they cost this particular FltLt. A lot of WWII vets who had to do a year in Canada or Rhodesia or elsewhere to get theirs were pretty steamed about it.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.