Who has been the youngest wing commander?

Started by Cindi, February 21, 2014, 10:22:03 PM

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mdickinson

Quote from: Storm Chaser on February 22, 2014, 01:38:23 PM
With those stats, it makes you wonder why Rhode Island is a wing at all. I mean, my squadron is half the size of their entire wing!  :o
So since their wing has 12 vans and 2 aircraft... your squadron should have 6 vans and 1 plane!

QuoteDo they really need their own Col wing commander? ...  Perhaps small CAP wings like Rhode Island should have a Lt Col as wing commander.
Each wing commander is a voting member of the CAP Command Council. It's probably important to have everyone in that council on equal footing.

It's kinda like the senate. The two senators from Rhode Island each represent about 1% as many people as the two senators from California... but they have the same number of votes!

Eclipse

#21
Quote from: mdickinson on February 23, 2014, 01:47:20 AM
Each wing commander is a voting member of the CAP Command Council. It's probably important to have everyone in that council on equal footing.

It's kinda like the senate. The two senators from Rhode Island each represent about 1% as many people as the two senators from California... but they have the same number of votes!

This is not universally viewed as "a good thing" because it provides an equal "voice" to an unequal group.
One can certainly understand why the framers went this way, but at the time of the "Big 13", the spread between
the largest and the smallest colonies wasn't nearly as large.

I'd argue this is an issue in CAP as well as the US Senate.

A Wing CC with less members in the entire Wing, then some Wings have members on staff, is not likely to
to have any idea what the challenges and requirements are to run a wing the size of Texas or California, nor
most of the other wings, and therefore is not going to be able to vote knowledgeably on much beyond his borders.
He doesn't have the critical mass of membership to run encampments of proper scale (thus the ever-popular Tri-Wing),
nor provide PD training or opportunities on the generally accepted "proper" scale of a CAP wing.

As noted, just about any member could fast-burn from slick-sleeve to wing staff since there isn't much in the
way of a staircase to climb, and multi-echelon staff-posting would have to be the norm just to fill the mandated
positions.

A "Wing" with 97 members is a unitgroup not a wing.
Edit: RIWG has 211 members, or did as of Legislative day 2012. So that's a Group, though filtered for
empty shirts, the number is likely less by at least 1/3rd.


Edit 2: Actually, they have 164 members

And for the record, there's no 19 year old I've ever met who is ready to run a squadron, fast-burner or not.
CAP knowledge is not enough to direct adults, especially adults who aren't compelled to stick around.
Anyone who has ever seen a minty-fresh Spaatz-Captain try to herd adult cats knows how painful that
can be for all involved.

Also, interestingly, at the time he assumed command, he'd been in CAP 5 years but had not attained Spaatz.
I have no idea what grade he attained as a cadet, but any cadet destined to be the "youngest wing CC"
should have left cadet life with 3 diamonds, or at least 2 and a strike-out going down swinging.

Assuming he was a fast-burner / high-speed cadet, then whoever thought it was a good idea for him to dark-side at 19 did him,
and CAP, a big disservice not having him reach for Spaatz.

"That Others May Zoom"

Storm Chaser

Quote from: mdickinson on February 23, 2014, 01:47:20 AM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on February 22, 2014, 01:38:23 PM
With those stats, it makes you wonder why Rhode Island is a wing at all. I mean, my squadron is half the size of their entire wing!  :o
So since their wing has 12 vans and 2 aircraft... your squadron should have 6 vans and 1 plane!

No, we don't quite have six vans; only one. But we do have one airplane and 98 members, as of today. Maybe our squadron commander should be a Col as well.  >:D

Eclipse

Once could also ask what a wing that is only 37 miles wide and 48 miles long is doing with 12 vehicles.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Correcting the corrections:

Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/RI_Newsletter_12528B4C69F45.pdf

RIWG has

82 Senior Members
82 Cadets

10 vehicles
2 Planes

"That Others May Zoom"

mdickinson

#25
Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2014, 04:12:32 AM
Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter
RIWG has
82 Senior Members
82 Cadets
10 vehicles
2 Planes
Wow. If both the 2012 and 2014 numbers are accurate, that means they lost 22% of the wing's membership in just two years. Ouch.

At least they still have plenty of vans. They've got, let's see... one van for every 16 members.

(Imagine how many vans your wing would have if there was one for every 16 members! Where would you put them all?!)

Eclipse

Quote from: mdickinson on February 23, 2014, 04:21:55 AM
Wow. If both the 2012 and 2014 numbers are accurate, that means they lost 22% of the wing's membership in just two years. Ouch.
In their defense  a lot of wings are seeing program shrinkage.  After a few years of growth, or at least relative stability, the line
is starting to face South again.  I know we're seeing that in my wing.

Recruiting is simply not a national priority.

"That Others May Zoom"

Storm Chaser


Eclipse

Quote from: Storm Chaser on February 23, 2014, 04:29:42 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2014, 04:25:20 AM
Recruiting is simply not a national priority.

It should be.

I agree completely, and continue to ring the bell, both here and locally, to little avail.

I assert that CAP needs to do a National "ALL STOP" and concentrate on recruiting for a 6-month period.
Real, focused, results-based (and required) recruiting.  Mandating every squadron add "x" members or
grow by "x" percentage (grow is probably better then add, since that entails some attention to retention.

Few members are much value to CAP in the first 6-months to a year, and most take 1-3 months
from first contact to full membership, which means if we started tomorrow, we see no results until
next year, and that's conservative.

That doesn't mean we stop looking for people, or hold up cadets, but every moment wasted on
anything but status quo is directed at recruiting, and that includes putting empty shirts in
a separate category so we can see the real numbers.

It takes a year to grow a new member, literally.  How much longer do we put this off?

"That Others May Zoom"

ProdigalJim

Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2014, 04:12:32 AM
Correcting the corrections:

Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/RI_Newsletter_12528B4C69F45.pdf

RIWG has

82 Senior Members
82 Cadets

10 vehicles
2 Planes

Um...my squadron has

77 Senior Members
65 Cadets
1 Plane
2 vehicles (temporarily)

Wow, I had no idea. And I can't imagine myself trying to command a Wing; I'm durn near twice Maj Emerick's age. I think that guy got a bad deal...with the right progression and mentoring and so forth he might have been able to stay and be active for a long time.
Jim Mathews, Maj., CAP
Commander, VAWG Group 3
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

PHall

Quote from: ProdigalJim on February 23, 2014, 05:16:39 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2014, 04:12:32 AM
Correcting the corrections:

Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/RI_Newsletter_12528B4C69F45.pdf

RIWG has

82 Senior Members
82 Cadets

10 vehicles
2 Planes

Um...my squadron has

77 Senior Members
65 Cadets
1 Plane
2 vehicles (temporarily)

Wow, I had no idea. And I can't imagine myself trying to command a Wing; I'm durn near twice Maj Emerick's age. I think that guy got a bad deal...with the right progression and mentoring and so forth he might have been able to stay and be active for a long time.

He was "used" by a Region Commander who wanted somebody who wouldn't cause him trouble.

MSG Mac

Not as bad as the PAWG Commander making a freshly turned 21 year old a Group/CC with the grade of Major in the mid 90's.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

SarDragon

Quote from: Storm Chaser on February 23, 2014, 04:29:42 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2014, 04:25:20 AM
Recruiting is simply not a national priority.

It should be.

NO!

We're doing OK recruiting.

We're NOT doing OK keeping the people we're recruiting - RETENTION.

Every time I  go to a CAWG Conference, the wing commanders gives us the same story - we recruited X number of people, and Y number of people didn't stick around past the first year. The usual statistic is that if we kept half of those members who went away, we would grow by 2-3 percent, each and every year.

The other telling statistic is that half of the cadet population has been in CAP less than a year.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

ColonelJack

Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2014, 03:39:54 AM

Also, interestingly, at the time he assumed command, he'd been in CAP 5 years but had not attained Spaatz.
I have no idea what grade he attained as a cadet, but any cadet destined to be the "youngest wing CC"
should have left cadet life with 3 diamonds, or at least 2 and a strike-out going down swinging.

Assuming he was a fast-burner / high-speed cadet, then whoever thought it was a good idea for him to dark-side at 19 did him,
and CAP, a big disservice not having him reach for Spaatz.

The not-so-sharply-focused picture of then-Col Emerick in this thread shows his highest cadet award was ... Mitchell.

Not Spaatz, Eaker, or even Earhart.  Mitchell. 

Unless (as is stated) the region CC wanted to make sure he would have no dissent or trouble out of RIWG, there is absolutely no reason to ruin a young CAP officer's career by promoting him beyond his maturity and capabilities as quickly as this happened.  Whatever bad tidings befell RIWG during Emerick's term as CC, the ultimate responsibility for them should be laid at Col Hayden's doorstep.

And then, of course, there's the drama of the relieved/terminated RIWG CC to make room for Emerick, and the ruin of another - more mature - officer's career.

This is, of course, my personal and humble opinion.  Your mileage may vary.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

Elmer

Quote(I also find it amazing he was able to amass 2000 flight hours by age 24.)

I had a young SM (under 21) that had acculumiated about this many hours.  He had found a job ferrying aircraft.

FW

At the time of Maj. Emmerick's appointment, the RIWG was in tremendous turmoil.  He was probably chosen because he was one of the few senior members willing to take the job. Unfortunately, he was not really qualified to handle it.

Being the wing commander of the smallest wing in the country (4 squadrons and wing HQ) is an almost impossible task. It requires all the staff and administrative burdens of larger wings; without the manpower.  It also requires the leadership skills of a mature and experienced person to handle such a position.  It was an unfortunate situation for all concerned. IMHO the, then, region commander was put in a difficult place.

Private Investigator

Quote from: FW on February 23, 2014, 03:58:22 PM
At the time of Maj. Emmerick's appointment, the RIWG was in tremendous turmoil.  He was probably chosen because he was one of the few senior members willing to take the job. Unfortunately, he was not really qualified to handle it.

Being the wing commander of the smallest wing in the country (4 squadrons and wing HQ) is an almost impossible task. It requires all the staff and administrative burdens of larger wings; without the manpower.  It also requires the leadership skills of a mature and experienced person to handle such a position.  It was an unfortunate situation for all concerned. IMHO the, then, region commander was put in a difficult place.

It depends on what is the benchmark of a good Wing Commander is. Talent is just that, talent and talent goes a long way. Some people you meet you know will be a Wing Commander and maybe a National Commander one day. Others are just that. "Others".

Two ways to approach the Wing King job, one is to continue with the staff you have and express your "Commanders Intent". Two, is fire everyone and for example if you were SQCC of SQ4, bring your SQ4 Staff in as your 'new' Wing Staff.  8)

NIN

Quote from: mdickinson on February 23, 2014, 04:21:55 AM
At least they still have plenty of vans. They've got, let's see... one van for every 16 members.

(Imagine how many vans your wing would have if there was one for every 16 members! Where would you put them all?!)

If they're 12 pax vans, and figuring on retention/active numbers, sounds like they have a seat for everybody in the wing in one go! :)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
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Private Investigator

Quote from: Cindi on February 21, 2014, 10:39:25 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 21, 2014, 10:34:31 PM
^ He was indicated at the time as the youngest.

His tenure was challenged and he office after about two years.

He did not retain his grade of Col and now serves as a Major.

It does not appear he has been active since stepping down.



Thanks for the information Eclipse. So 24 it is! It must of been tough for him at that age to be a wing commander. Kudos to him for giving it a shot!

From what I heard, the average tour for a CAP Wing Commander is 23 months. So he did average.   8)

ZigZag911

During Col Hayden's tenure as NER CC he always relied on his wing CC review board...to the best of my knowledge, in every instance he presented the board's recommendations to the National CC in the order he was given them (top 3).

He also spoke to the top 3 candidates (per the review board's ranking) personally before bringing the matter to the National CC.

All of this is public knowledge in NER, at least for those who had any reason to know or care (wing & region staff folks).

He instituted these practices when he took over in August 2009...in the immediate aftermath, as you may recall, of Pineda's shenanigans in appointing wing and region commanders.

All that the sad case of the former RI wing CC, Maj Emerick, really shows is that any system, however well intentioned, is subject to human error. Evidently Emrick really impressed the review board (or at least a majority of it)...so much so that they decided, erroneously in hindsight (which of course is 20/20!) that his youth and inexperience would be more than balanced by his energy and enthusiasm.

Unfortunately for the wing, the wing commander and CAP, it did not work out that way.

Finally, I have it on good authority that, during Emerick's tenure as wing CC, RI WG and its wing commander were repeatedly offered mentoring, including the temporary assignment of experienced personnel to guide their own people.

These offers were made by NER and several of RI's neighboring wings.

In every instance, the response was, as I understand, "No thanks, we can handle it".

In fact, they could not.

Pride goeth before a fall.