Who has been the youngest wing commander?

Started by Cindi, February 21, 2014, 10:22:03 PM

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ZigZag911

Why turn NER into one wing?

We're one of the larger regions, in terms of personnel!

There is an argument to be made for combining some of our wings, but that's an uphill battle.

LSThiker

Quote from: MSG Mac on February 26, 2014, 05:51:01 AM
Not since the new governance went into effect last year.

Okay, must have missed that.  I thought they were still corporate officers discretionarily appointed by the Board of Governors as a "field level" corporate officer as opposed to a national corporate officer (i.e. NH/CC, CV, COO).  Meh, does not exactly shift anything in my life really.

Eclipse

Quote from: ZigZag911 on February 26, 2014, 01:51:27 PM
Why turn NER into one wing?

We're one of the larger regions, in terms of personnel!

Not if you drop out the 1-2 physically larger states.

The 4-5 smallest ones should be combined.  The take up less then 1/2 the geographic area
of most other wings, which means there's plenty of waste in terms of the economies of scale.

"That Others May Zoom"

Private Investigator

From the outside looking in.

Why not have one decent SQ in RIWG and if distant is a concern have a Flight for those who can not drive 10 miles. Or where ever you stage an corporate aircraft make that a Flight.  8)


Eclipse

If you can't drive 10 miles, you're in the wrong organization.

Rhode Island Composite is a good solution.

"That Others May Zoom"

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Eclipse on February 26, 2014, 04:51:07 PM
If you can't drive 10 miles, you're in the wrong organization.

Rhode Island Composite is a good solution.

That's just making RI jokes.

Part of being so small with a high population density is that people don't have to travel far for much of anything. And if that's the attitude of a cadet's parents we can't do much to change that.

I'd be open to a combined wing (RI / CT, RI / MA, RI / MA / CT). The devil would be in the details. Changes to the CAP Constitution, by-laws and who knows how many regulations would be required.

Eclipse

Rather then re-inventing wheels already spinning to zero gain, we should have resources
focused on these types of issues which go to the heart of CAP's viability and ROI.

The military does it on an ongoing basis through the BRAC and other draw-downs.

When I was a Group CC I was constantly assessing the viability of my units, and more then once
a couple came close to being shut down.  My wing has also been doing with GRACs and charter
retirements.

These are common-sense, objective business decisions which should be made outside the
cloud of "home field" or other irrelevant allegiances.

When you start adding up the cost savings in CI's, WAs, redundant infrastructure, and other
expenses, the numbers start to be pretty big.

"That Others May Zoom"

flyboy53

#87
I think the tragedy of the RI command situation was that it would fall on the shoulders of someone who might have been considered for a staff position at best.

I was aware of other issues with the wing because I have personally known a couple of the previous wing commanders -- one of which completely dropped out of CAP and now focuses his time with the USCG Aux.

As far as combining small wings into one larger unit, that's an interesting idea, but I though the organization of a wing was based on state boundaries. Before someone should even consider something like that, I would hope they would consider span of control.

NYW, after all, one of the largest wings in the Region, and one of the larger wings in the organization,  is so large that it takes about seven hours of driving time to get from one end off the state to the other. Some of the groups are so geographically large that it takes about two hours in a car to travel to different units. Try managing something like that as part of a larger wing.

Finally, although it's great to always look back and see how great it was to have an AF Officer as a national commander -- with the AF participation -- perhaps the issue in the future is to do what Gen. Johnson did in World War II, and that being that the ranking CAP officer should be able to pursue some sort of AF appointment or commission process. Sure would be impressive for some junior cadet.

The whole issue here is not the size of a wing but how that individual motivates his subordinates to excel in their duties and delegates to get the job done.

Private Investigator

Quote from: Eclipse on February 26, 2014, 04:51:07 PM
If you can't drive 10 miles, you're in the wrong organization.

Rhode Island Composite is a good solution.

I agree, that does make sense. Pretty awesome to be a Squadron Commander with Wing Commander status.  8)

Private Investigator

Quote from: flyboy1 on February 27, 2014, 01:17:31 PM
I think the tragedy of the RI command situation was ...

Other Wings have the same problem. Make a plan "A", plan "B", etc, etc. Remembering failure is not an option.

Wings, Groups and Squadrons have the same problem. Somebody needs to say who is going to be the next Commander and then who after that one. Waiting to the last minute for a change of command, an SUI or a CI is always a disaster awaiting the perfect storm.  8)

Eclipse

Quote from: flyboy1 on February 27, 2014, 01:17:31 PM
I was aware of other issues with the wing because I have personally known a couple of the previous wing commanders -- one of which completely dropped out of CAP and now focuses his time with the USCG Aux.

This.

Needs to be in the top ten, if not five, things to be addressed in CAP before we spend time reinventing wheels
already spinning.

The number of members I have known, or or known of, who invest 10+ years rising to silver oaks and then literally disappear overnight.

In some case it is because they didn't deserve them to start with, so fair enough, but it shouldn't take 10 years to realize that.

But in far too many others, it is because by the time they rise to a position of influence, the responsibilities and weight
of doing the job(s) correctly without the commensurate support and authority, not to mention resources,
is more then they can stomach on zero salary.  Some people have no issue just checking a box f it means they
can have a cool business card.  The ones you actually want on your team don't cotton to that.

At the unit level you can either ignore or dissolve the fiefdoms, cliques, and nay-sayers, but above that, you're dependent on
dragging a lot of people along kicking an screaming, with little in the way of a stick to force action.  Plenty of smoke, little fire,
lot's of whining both about change, and "then why nothing is changing".

Make no mistake, volunteer or otherwise, CAP has made a significant investment in anyone who earned their oaks organically,
gold or silver, and this knowledge drain should be considered unacceptable and a huge organizational liability.

"That Others May Zoom"

Private Investigator

^ I agree.

One thing I think is the first 10 years in you are a hard charger. In 10 years a few change of commands happen and you are no longer the "flavor of the month" or you are too old and the 'new breed' has a different agenda.

Then you have former Commanders who want to move up, they just can not be the former Commander and want a Group or Wing job for their imaginary resume or I.C.V.  8) 

MSG Mac

Quote from: Eclipse on February 26, 2014, 04:38:21 PM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on February 26, 2014, 01:51:27 PM
Why turn NER into one wing?

We're one of the larger regions, in terms of personnel!

Not if you drop out the 1-2 physically larger states.

The 4-5 smallest ones should be combined.  The take up less then 1/2 the geographic area
of most other wings, which means there's plenty of waste in terms of the economies of scale.

CAP, Like the Air Force, USN, and USCG,  is a T/E organization. This means that a Wing is organized based on mission and not with a standardized organizational structure. 1 Wing could have 100 aircraft, another 15 and still be a Wing. A T/O organization (Army and Marines) says that a unit will have X number of people in specified grades and MOS's. RI wing still has the same missions as TXWG or CAWG, so having a COL as Commander is appropriate. 
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

rustyjeeper

Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2014, 04:41:03 AM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on February 23, 2014, 04:29:42 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2014, 04:25:20 AM
Recruiting is simply not a national priority.

It should be.

I agree completely, and continue to ring the bell, both here and locally, to little avail.

I assert that CAP needs to do a National "ALL STOP" and concentrate on recruiting for a 6-month period.
Real, focused, results-based (and required) recruiting.  Mandating every squadron add "x" members or
grow by "x" percentage (grow is probably better then add, since that entails some attention to retention.

Few members are much value to CAP in the first 6-months to a year, and most take 1-3 months
from first contact to full membership, which means if we started tomorrow, we see no results until
next year, and that's conservative.

That doesn't mean we stop looking for people, or hold up cadets, but every moment wasted on
anything but status quo is directed at recruiting, and that includes putting empty shirts in
a separate category so we can see the real numbers.

It takes a year to grow a new member, literally.  How much longer do we put this off?


CAP needs to focus on not just recruitment but also retention of members. Many like myself quit out of frustration. I allowed my membership to lapse yesterday and yet another is dropped from the rolls.
My final act before expiration was to hit the big red button (aka- ask the National Commander) and to suggest that NHQ conduct exit surveys of members. In my case frustrations at Local and Wing levels were my reason for leaving.  Sadly in NER the region seems to do nothing at all- not even enforce its own policies

Private Investigator

Quote from: rustyjeeper on March 01, 2014, 09:59:02 PMCAP needs to focus on not just recruitment but also retention of members. Many like myself quit out of frustration. I allowed my membership to lapse yesterday and yet another is dropped from the rolls.
My final act before expiration was to hit the big red button (aka- ask the National Commander) and to suggest that NHQ conduct exit surveys of members. In my case frustrations at Local and Wing levels were my reason for leaving.  Sadly in NER the region seems to do nothing at all- not even enforce its own policies

Sorry that you left. When I moved I had to change Squadrons and the new unit was sorry. Just a flying club, no missions in 5 years. Now I got a long drive but for the camadrie it is worth it.  8)