CAP Member in Photo on CNN Gallery

Started by a2capt, September 09, 2012, 09:10:30 PM

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Critical AOA

Heck, they even used to salute on Hee Haw.
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw

ol'fido

All,

We are making the ASSUMPTION that this person is saluting another person. We are making the ASSUMPTION that in this one snapshot absent any other context or explanation that this person has no justification to salute in this BRIEF moment. We are making a lot of ASSUMPTIONS. >:(

Just to put in my two cents worth here on this one pic, if you will note that they are marching and passing out of frame is a gentleman holding what appears to be the regimental flag. Somebody may correct my history but most Civil War units went into battle with two flags: a distinctive regimental flag and a national flag. He may have been caught in the act of saluting the UNITED STATES FLAG.

Plus, given the size of most of the reenactor units I have seen there may well be another "regimental" unit right behind this one also with a regimental flag and US FLAG. But here again I am making an ASSUMPTION. I do not know this for a fact.

So until we know the context of when and where this pic was taken, we need to keep our yaps shut and our snarks to ourselves.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

SarDragon

Quote from: Eclipse on September 10, 2012, 10:54:33 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on September 10, 2012, 10:52:06 PMThere's no law or regulation against it, and no one who can authoritatively tell me I can't.

On your personal time, of course not.  In a CAP uniform, of course they can, and we should certainly be training our cadets properly.

This isn't much different from the goober who goes and tells someone in the military to take back their salute because it's not required.

Gimme a citation for that.

I've been doin' this salutin' thing a very long time, and I think I've got a really good idea of what it's all about.

I do not randomly and indiscriminately render salutes, but I do use them as a personal form of greeting. I don't think it's your place to tell me I can't.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

coudano

Seriously he's just scratching the side of his head there...
Or wiping the sweat from beneath the rim of his hat.

he is clearly not standing at attention (look at his left hand there with the thumb nowhere near the side seam of the pants)

also his right finger tips are not touching where they should be for a salute,
nor is his hand properly angled forward.



Right here is a great example of why you probably shouldn't wear your CAP uniform anywhere other than a CAP meeting or activity.  You NEVER KNOW who is going to snap some picture of you and immortalize you (and all of your nit picky 'mistakes') in an undesirable context.  Probably just some cadet, excited to be in uniform, looking for an excuse to wear it anywhere and everywhere possible.


oh, p.s. i love the tire tracks going up over the hill there (lol).
Nothing says re-enactment like that toyota or 4 wheeler just over the ridge haha

SarDragon

Sorry, as bad as it might look, that's a salute. Too many things "right" about for it not to be.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Eclipse

Quote from: SarDragon on September 10, 2012, 11:22:30 PM
I do not randomly and indiscriminately render salutes, but I do use them as a personal form of greeting. I don't think it's your place to tell me I can't.

Then there's no issue.  It's not my place to tell you not to do anything.

If two welders choose to 1/2-heartedly wave a salute-like hand to each other because they are both in Local 104, whatever.  I do it too, most adults do on some level or another.  I have a habit of calling everyone "sir", too.  Common courtesy on the street means something else in the CAP para-military paradigm.

But a CAP CC would be well within his authority to tell one of his subordinates to knock it off if they aren't adhering to saluting customs
properly in CAP uniform.

"That Others May Zoom"

AngelWings

Quote from: Eclipse on September 11, 2012, 12:07:41 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on September 10, 2012, 11:22:30 PM
I do not randomly and indiscriminately render salutes, but I do use them as a personal form of greeting. I don't think it's your place to tell me I can't.
I have a habit of calling everyone "sir", too.
Be careful there, you do not want to be talking to a female when you say "sir"  ;)

(I get what you mean, BTW. Just joking.)

Luis R. Ramos

David-

If I had seen those pants as grey instead of light blue, your "joke" may have come thru. I guess that since no one else has "celebrated" it, it escaped some other people as well... Better luck next time...
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Luis R. Ramos

Ol' Fido-

Federal Civil War units carried two flags, a regimental flag and a National flag.

Some militia and volunteer carried three. The National flag, a state flag, and a regimental flag. Not all... some...

It could be he has saluted the National flag those reenactors carried, which would be to the right of the regimental flag shown, out of the picture to the right. And another National flag is coming on the left. However...

No one has commented in that the CAP cadet is facing almost parallel to the line of travel and to the rear of the formation, not the side, as if facing them. It may be possible he is saluting someone else out of the picture...

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Eclipse

More photos from the same event: http://www.georgiadivision.org/bor_pictures.html

I'd be willing to bet that this is the same formation from a different angle:


So we can give him the benefit of the doubt that he was saluting the period-correct version of the US flag.

Although the "scratching his head" theory also has some merit.

"That Others May Zoom"

Luis R. Ramos

#50
Eclipse-

The photo you post, the unit in the foreground has lots of grey and "butternut." And the regimental flag is red but the unit the CAP cadet appears to be saluting is a Union unit with a blue flag. I saw the photos on the link you posted. To me, none appears to be that unit. The Union lines are in the background to see clearly...

Take care,

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Eclipse

Quote from: flyer333555 on September 11, 2012, 03:32:25 AM
Eclipse-

The photo you post, the unit in the foreground has lots of grey and "butternut." And the regimental flag is red. Or is the photo you mention in the link you posted

Take care,

Flyer

I'm referring to the long line of union dress, and two flags, in the background.

"That Others May Zoom"

Luis R. Ramos

I see. It does illustrate the "battlefield," but myself I was expecting those flags without seeing a photo...

But your posting it I read a little bit about the event. The info was great, I like reading all that historical stuff.

They even said "thank you to the Civil Air Patrol." Would like to know what the CAP does that appears to be helping them annually. Do they help with parking, transportation? I guess we will have to wait to be informed later... Or maybe never.

Thank you for finding and posting the link...

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Eclipse

Quote from: flyer333555 on September 11, 2012, 03:45:28 AMThey even said "thank you to the Civil Air Patrol." Would like to know what the CAP does that appears to be helping them annually. Do they help with parking, transportation? I guess we will have to wait to be informed later... Or maybe never.

Thank you for finding and posting the link...

Flyer

In other areas they say traffic and crowd control.

(I do what I can, even though according to Angel I'm a "miserable poster")

"That Others May Zoom"

SarDragon

Quote from: Eclipse on September 11, 2012, 12:07:41 AMBut a CAP CC would be well within his authority to tell one of his subordinates to knock it off if they aren't adhering to saluting customs properly in CAP uniform.

What is the basis for that alleged authority? You still haven't given me a citation.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Garibaldi

Quote from: SarDragon on September 11, 2012, 05:58:18 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on September 11, 2012, 12:07:41 AMBut a CAP CC would be well within his authority to tell one of his subordinates to knock it off if they aren't adhering to saluting customs properly in CAP uniform.

What is the basis for that alleged authority? You still haven't given me a citation.

Inherent authority? Umm...tradition? I mean, where's the authority for a cadet to give orders to his flight spelled out? Sorry, I just jumped in with my cold medicine haze.

You can ask for citations all day long but at the end of the day it's just "it's always been that way". A CC can spell out what's right and what's wrong and enforce it with memo's and letters and whatnot. A violation of customs and courtesies isn't really a punishable offense, but since "it's always been that way" a senior sure can correct a cadet or another senior due to that tradition. Who hasn't corrected a cadet or sloppy senior once or twice? It's not spelled out in any reg that I know of, but inherent authority to correct, chastise, counsel, coach, or whatever because of tradition and "it's always been that way" is and always will be a part of this process.

Please correct me if i'm wrong. I think the NyQuil is doing all my talking for me. I think I just got engaged over the phone tonight to a girl I haven't seen or talked to in 26 years a little while ago.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

SarDragon

You are essentially correct.

I am discussing one specific issue - when or when not to salute, and anyone's specific authority, by regulation, to forbid me from doing so whenever I feel it's appropriate.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Eclipse

Quote from: SarDragon on September 11, 2012, 07:41:33 AM
You are essentially correct.

I am discussing one specific issue - when or when not to salute, and anyone's specific authority, by regulation, to forbid me from doing so whenever I feel it's appropriate.

It's the one on the back of the application where you agreed to obey the commands of your superiors, the one you are now required to reaffirm every time you renew.

If you're on your own time, you can do whatever you want. 

If you're on CAP time, and especially in uniform, and saluting in a way that would be a detriment to the image of CAP, your CC, or anyone else
in authority at the time, would certainly be within their authority to tell you to knock it off.

"That Others May Zoom"

754837


a2capt

Quote from: 754837 on September 11, 2012, 03:12:25 PMThis debate is unreal!
Welcome to CAPTalk. It's still a nice photo. Whatever.