Where Did Plastic Ribbons Come From?

Started by ProdigalJim, May 05, 2011, 01:23:02 AM

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ProdigalJim

So back when I was a cadet (79-83) we wore silly-looking plastic ribbons with cartoons on them. I read the thread about the history of the cadet uniform, and saw them described...but I didn't see anything about WHY these things came about.

Does anyone here have any insight? Was it just one more example of Seventies Silliness, like hip-huggers, frizzy hair, disco or Hush Puppies?
Jim Mathews, Lt. Col., CAP
VAWG/XP
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

JC004


ol'fido

The ribbons were also called "ever clean" ribbons. I imagine that at some point somebody got tired of replacing their ribbons every two or three years( if not more often) and thought that hard plastic was a way to make the ribbons last longer and keep them looking better. But they had their own set of problems as well. They warped in any kind of heat and were easily damaged if you caught them on anything. They were also a pain to keep on the ribbon holders. Sometimes you had to take little strips of paper, fold them up to the size and shape of the ribbon holder, and then hold them against the ribbon holder while you slid the ribbons on over the top.

Eventually, I think they just decided that they looked to "disco" and with all the other problems decided it was easier just to replace the cloth ribbons when they became frayed or dirty.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

ProdigalJim

I found this on the CadetStuff wiki...it all kinda makes sense. Especially the idea that the Heraldic branch didn't have time to work on them, so they asked the internal CAP art department to come up with them.

http://wiki.cadetstuff.org/index.php?title=CAP_uniform_history#Ribbons_and_Awards_of_the_Second_Generation

This piece quotes a CAP News story of 1998 written by Col. Blascovich.
Jim Mathews, Lt. Col., CAP
VAWG/XP
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

JC004

#4
That guy taught me SO much about CAP at conferences...

Anyway, so it says:

"National headquarters quickly enlisted the support of its art department, which was responsible for the illustration of CAP's textbooks. Charles Wood, the chief illustrator, was asked for suggestions. Before long, he was responsible for designing the new cadet and senior program ribbons."

Looks like the same people are developing the current things including, but not limited to:

  • CAP Monopoly logo, originally a conference logo, that sadly spread like Ebola
  • The race car era CAP emblem that was on the NHQ web site for some time
  • The Triangle Thingy
  • "CAP Cares" logo
  • grunge effect on the NHQ web site
  • slaughtered Air Force Hap Arnold symbol variations
  • Replacing the "O" in "Volunteer" with a triangle
  • the website.
  • "Civil Air Patrol" stripe thingy that goes on the vans with the stupid plane flying through it
  • library card (for the record, my Philadelphia Free Library card is a higher quality print)
  • DDR logos (all three versions)

ProdigalJim

    Quote from: JC004 on May 05, 2011, 02:51:42 AM
    • CAP Monopoly logo, originally a conference logo, that sadly spread like Ebola

    Except in the case of Ebola, it's so virulent that it flares for a few weeks and then drops off as all the susceptible patients die off quickly. I see no such thing in the case of Monopoly... >:D
    Jim Mathews, Lt. Col., CAP
    VAWG/XP
    My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

    JC004

    #6
    The people who designed the ribbons designed this.

    WARNING.  SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND THE FOLLOWING IMAGE AS DISTURBING AS CARTOONS ON A MILITARY-STYLE UNIFORM.

    Note the cartoon houses which are not unlike the cartoon airplanes and such.



    NCRblues

     :o
    My lord....that truck is hideous....
    In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

    JC004

    Indeed.  Perhaps CAP has a slight heritage of hideous.  I remember finding many of those cartoon ribbons in my grandfather's things.  I couldn't understand why they were so silly.  They looked even sillier next to the Marine ribbons...purple heart and all.  Somehow he had a plastic over those for the combined rack.

    SarDragon

    For those of you who decry the older CP ribbons, shame on you. That's what we got WIWAC, and they were new and exciting at the time. There is nothing cartoonish about them. If you look at them closely, each ribbon had an imoge or letter representing the person the achievement was named for. They are a part of our history and heritage.

    Curry - a 'C' and two 'prop inside the triangle' images
    Arnold - a B-26, but I don't recall the specific association with him
    Wright - the Wright Flyer
    Rickenbacker - his 'Hat in the Ring' logo
    Lindbergh - the 'Spirit of St. Louis'
    Doolittle - the B-25 from the raid
    Goddard - a rocket
    Mitchell - an 'M' and two stars
    Earhart - red, white, and blue shield and, red, white, and blue striped bunting
    Spaatz - An 'S' and four stars

    I still have all of mine, from the Arnold, all the way through Mitchell.
    Dave Bowles
    Maj, CAP
    AT1, USN Retired
    50 Year Member
    Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
    C/WO, CAP, Ret

    BillB

    There is only one second generation ribbon authorized to be worn, the Cadet COP. The COP with three clasps for completion of achievement 9 would have been transferred as a Spaatz, so National never replaced the ribbon. All other 2nd generation ribbons were changed to the current style or dropped.
    Gil Robb Wilson # 19
    Gil Robb Wilson # 104

    ProdigalJim

    Quote from: SarDragon on May 05, 2011, 06:50:47 AM
    For those of you who decry the older CP ribbons, shame on you. That's what we got WIWAC, and they were new and exciting at the time. There is nothing cartoonish about them.

    Me too. That's what I got, and I kept all mine, too. But regardless of how the pictures related to the history (Rickenbacker's hat-in-ring, for example) the combination of pictures and plastic WAS cartoony. I felt a little silly wearing them. And yes, I saved mine all through Mitchell, too.

    I'm proud of what I did WIWAC...and I'm not decrying anyone's accomplishments. But aesthetically those ribbons just plain didn't do it for me. I appreciate that others may feel differently.
    Jim Mathews, Lt. Col., CAP
    VAWG/XP
    My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

    Ned

    And countless hours were spent at every level of the CAC trying to change the ribbons in the early 1970's.

    Cadets can and did "convert" their plastic ribbons to cloth by carefully peeling away the clear laminate from the underlying fabric with a steady hand and an Xacto knife.  Often it took two or three attempts to get a successful "peel."

    I still have a full set of plastic ribbons that I wear with my shade 1505 historical uniform at conferences.  I have it set up as a C/Sgt with the white and blue sew-on stripes.  I am putting another together with my old shoulder boards.

    ProdigalJim

    Quote from: Ned on May 05, 2011, 04:38:50 PM
    Cadets can and did "convert" their plastic ribbons to cloth by carefully peeling away the clear laminate from the underlying fabric with a steady hand and an Xacto knife. 

    I thought I was the only one who did that!
    Jim Mathews, Lt. Col., CAP
    VAWG/XP
    My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

    JC004

    Quote from: ProdigalJim on May 05, 2011, 06:55:36 PM
    Quote from: Ned on May 05, 2011, 04:38:50 PM
    Cadets can and did "convert" their plastic ribbons to cloth by carefully peeling away the clear laminate from the underlying fabric with a steady hand and an Xacto knife. 

    I thought I was the only one who did that!

    I've seen some of these from the past.  My grandfather did the opposite - making his military ribbons plastic.  I wonder if that was very common.

    wacapgh

    Quote from: ProdigalJim on May 05, 2011, 06:55:36 PM
    Quote from: Ned on May 05, 2011, 04:38:50 PM
    Cadets can and did "convert" their plastic ribbons to cloth by carefully peeling away the clear laminate from the underlying fabric with a steady hand and an Xacto knife. 

    I thought I was the only one who did that!

    Nope  ;D You had to have several of each on hand "just in case".

    WIWAC (when rocks were still soft...etc.) it seemed to be triggered once you had been awarded an attachment to any ribbon -  SAR  or Recruiting, or the CD Ribbon that had a big round disc in the center. No matter what you used to make a hole for the device, the plastic always turned milky white.

    RickFranz

    Plastic "cartoon" ribbons, 1505's yep those where the days my friends. 

    No simple put the ribbon on, nope you had to know what it was for and which direction it was suppose to face. 

    Seems like those little "cartoons" reinforced the meaning of the award.

    Also remember that back in that day we where in a police action in South East Asia, very wet over there I was told. 

    Might have something to do with the plastic ribbons.
    Rick Franz, Col, CAP
    KSWG CC
    Gill Rob Wilson #2703
    IC1

    SarDragon

    I'm not catching the connection between CAP plastic ribbons, and SEA. I don't recall the RealMilitary™ using plastic ribbons during that period. I know that I had a bit of heartburn when I became a SM, because initially I couldn't wear my AD ribbons with my CAP ribbons.
    Dave Bowles
    Maj, CAP
    AT1, USN Retired
    50 Year Member
    Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
    C/WO, CAP, Ret

    AlphaSigOU

    I remember back in my days WIWAC that plastic coated ribbons required a different style of ribbon holder - they were thicker than the thin brass or aluminum ribbon holders used for cloth ribbons. IIRC, the RealMilitary® got away from wearing them around the early to mid-1960s, but CAP continued until the early 80s. I'm thinking the supplier of plastic ribbons to CAP finally ran out of them before we got cloth ribbons as cadinks (but still with cartoons, they didn't reach their present design until 1984). My first squadron commander, the legendary Lt Col Ron Bradford of Georgia Wing, pointedly wore only his US military decorations (Silver Star, Purple Heart and the three SEA service medals, topped with the Combat Infantry Badge) instead of the cartoon ribbons.
    Yes, they were a major pain to put on any clasps or attachments. BTW, Dave - the Arnold ribbon depicted a B-17; in later years it morphed into a stylized abomination that barely looked like an airplane.
    Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
    Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
    Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
    Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
    Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
    Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
    KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

    SarDragon

    The only place I ever saw the plastic ribbons was in CAP, and only in that series of ribbons. The older ribbons that were replaced were all cloth.  And as far as AD stuff went, I was only familiar with USN, and am 100% certain that they never wore plastic ribbons.

    They did require a thicker bar, and you needed a separate bar for each row. There were no multiple row bars for the plastic ribbons.

    OK, B-17. I just had to find the right side view to confirm it. My ribbons were all from earlier batches. I got the first five in '65, and bought the Mitchell ribbon and the two before it at the same time in the same year.

    The order of wearing was different back then, too.

    Curry (don't have one of those)
    Arnold
    Doolittle
    Goddard
    Lindbergh
    Rickenbacker
    Wright Brothers
    Mitchell
    Dave Bowles
    Maj, CAP
    AT1, USN Retired
    50 Year Member
    Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
    C/WO, CAP, Ret