Main Menu

CAP and UFO's?????

Started by James Shaw, April 23, 2011, 10:52:50 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

James Shaw

Here is a nice addition to the CAP Archives courtesy of Col Tonya Boylan of GAWG. I hope you enjoy...
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current


LOL, ya know.. it wouldn't be the same without the redactions. :)


••• retired
2d Lt USAF

Майор Хаткевич

So...someone finds a model RC and calls it a UFO and it gets investigated?


Quote from: USAFaux2004 on April 24, 2011, 03:43:28 AM
So...someone finds a model RC and calls it a UFO and it gets investigated?

Did they have RC airplanes in the late 40's?

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on April 24, 2011, 03:55:34 AM
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on April 24, 2011, 03:43:28 AM
So...someone finds a model RC and calls it a UFO and it gets investigated?

Did they have RC airplanes in the late 40's?

That's what I got from the description.

It's a home made model of something...that's what the paper says.


RC aircraft have existed in the form we know now for about 90 years. They have a really nice timeline of hardware in the San Diego Air & Space Museum, too. A lot of vacuum tube based hardware that you'd look it and think, "that was able to fly?" .. it did.

In a more symbolic move than anything, on approach to Roswell some years back, I put a couple Pot Pie pans together to form your stereotypical 'UFO', and put two of them out the small window on a Piper Arrow.. 

UFOs over Roswell... more like someone might find 'em in the field outside of town and get a chuckle.. 


This just kinda makes me chuckle a bit.  I've never really though about  CAP involved with UFO's


Very cool!  I don't think I've ever heard the word "telephonically" before.


I was reading another thread about stolen valor in the CAP, and saw this interesting thread title. Did a little search and look what I found...

And then this from the same guy...

Terence Maroste      "We're Paratroopers, Lieutenant. We're
Maj, CAP                   supposed to be surrounded."
SWR-TX-293                  -Captain Richard Winters


From the June 24, 1985 Ellensburg, Washington Daily Record:

SEATTLE (UPI) - Several dozen true believers continue to mark the anniversary of "nine shiny, pulsating objects floating over Mount Rainer" 38 years ago.

That report by Civil Air Patrol pilot Kenneth Arnold on June 24, 1947 was the first report of an unidentified flying object and set off the first major wave of UFO sightings in the United States. The believers gathered over the weekend at Seattle Center to commemorate the first UFO sighting.

Arnold died during the past year in Meridian, Idaho, but UFO reports still roll in by the thousands every year. The only difference is that today they are more likely to be called "Frisbee-shaped."

The debate between believers and skeptics over the existence of "flying saucers" continues. Many of the believers, who concede 90 percent of UFO reports are traceable to explainable phenomena, say there are many sightings that even dedicated skeptics and debunkers can't explain.

Among the believers is former Army major, Wayne Aho, whose New Age Foundation of Tacoma sponsored the 24th annual New Space Age Convention at the Seattle Center.

Aho maintained in every instance of UFO sightings is followed by a denial story a couple of days later.

"That's why we charge there is a Watergate-style cover-up concerning UFOs. The stories all are suppressed, and if you want to be immediately incarcerated in jail or a hospital by authorities, just say you've been taken aboard a UFO."


Kenneth Arnold:


The United States Air Force's first plane crash, UFO's, dog burial at sea and Kenneth Arnold:

The Maury Island UFO Incident
The mystery starts with a UFO sighting by Harold Dahl on June 21, 1947, 2:00 pm over Maury Island Washington. Dahl along with his son and two crewmen were salvaging logs south of Maury Island when they saw six doughnut shaped disks hovering over the bay. One disk was wobbling and appeared to be in trouble. It lowered itself to about 500 feet above the water and was joined by five other disks. Upon what appeared to be assistance from one of the disks, the floundering disk dropped what appeared to be shiny aluminum metal on the beach followed by black lava like rock (or slag) into the water which created steam upon hitting the water. The falling slag wounded Dahl's son Charles and killed their dog. Charles was taken to the local hospital in Tacoma for first aid and the dog's body was buried at sea on their return trip. Kenneth Arnold's UFO Sighting Three days later on June 24, 1947, a pilot by the name of Kenneth Arnold saw nine disks "skipping" across the North face of Mt. Rainier and was to become the sighting in which media coined the term "Flying Saucer". He was interviewed by local and national press including Edward R. Murrow and his sighting made radio and news headlines around the world. He was later interviewed by 1st Lt. Frank M. Brown along with Capt. William L. Davidson from Hamilton Field in California.

Kenneth Arnold meets Harold Dahl and the Military
Kenneth Arnold was interested in UFOs after his sighting and answered a request by Ray Palmer - an editor in Chicago to investigate the nearby Maury Island sighting and a meeting was arranged with Harold Dahl at the Winthrop Hotel in Tacoma where Arnold was joined by United Airlines pilot Capt. E. J. Smith. The officers 1st Lt. Frank Brown and Capt. Davidson were called back at the request of Kenneth Arnold to also review these witnesses. The officers met with Kenneth Arnold and Harold Dahl and collected all the fragments of rock to take back with them to Hamilton Field. It was about midnight on July 31, 1947 when they finished interviewing and they called for a command car to pick them up as they seemed in a hurry to return to Hamiliton Field as it was Air Force Day - the inauguration day of the separation of the Air Force from the Army and all planes were needed. Kenneth Arnold in his book "The Coming of the Saucers" comments that just as the Army command car pulled up in front of the hotel where he and Capt. Smith were staying, Fred L. Crisman - Harold Dahl's supervisor came by and started taking a large Kellogg's corn flakes box (believed to be a large box with flaps) out of his trunk and Kenneth Arnold helped Crisman unload this box from his car into the trunk of the command car. Arnold states he could see the top of the box flapping open and "Inside the box were a great number of large chunks of material that looked similar to the fragments we had in our room". Arnold yelled "Goodbye and good luck" as the command car drove away. That was the last time Arnold and Capt. Smith were to see the officers. Soon after returning to his hotel room, a Tacoma Times reporter Ted Morello called to say that a mysterious telephone informant had told him what had taken place in their hotel room. This informant's information appeared accurate to the point that Arnold thought a small transmitter had been planted somewhere in their room although they could never find one.

The B-25 Bomber Crash - the Air Force's first Fatalities
Arnold the next morning around 9:20am received a call from Fred Crisman informing him that the radio was mentioning news of a B-25 bomber that had exploded and crashed twenty minutes after take off from McChord Field. The B-25 Bomber had crashed near Kelso Washington when the left engine caught on fire. Arnold was later to hear a recorded interview by Ted Morello of Sgt. Elmer L. Taff who was one of the survivors of the plane crash. Sgt. Taff related fifteen to twenty minutes after take off it was noticed that the left engine was on fire. Sgt. Matthew's had tried the emergency fire fighting system which did not work. Then Lt. Brown squeezed through the doorway and commanded them to strap on their parachutes. Lt. Brown had his harness on but not his parachute. He harshly commanded them both to jump. Lt. Brown quickly told him how to pull the rip chord when he was sure he was clear of the ship and actually forcibly shoved him out of the plane into the night. Taff related a good ten minutes had elapsed between the time he parachuted out at 10,000 ft. until the fire reached serious proportions and the plane started to dive. Taff also related of how shortly before they took off the pilot and copilot loaded a heavy cardboard box aboard the B-25. Taff noticed it particularly because it seemed very heavy for one man to carry. This box was placed over to one side of the compartment that he and the engineer occupied. Ted Morello also informed Kenneth Arnold that the B-25 Bomber that landed at McChord Field was under military armed guard every minute it was at the field. It was implied by the nature of that statement that this was unusual and Morello was scared for their safety.  A local newspaper article also gave clues to what happened aboard the plane. Woodrow D. Matthews, crew chief of the bomber reported helping Davidson and Brown into their parachutes and that at the time he jumped, flames from the blazing left engine were pouring into the cockpit. It was reported that Brown was "standing in the aisle ready to leave the plane" when Matthews himself jumped out. Brown was found at the crash site with his parachute harness on but had apparently returned to the cockpit. His body was found in the wreckage. Matthews related that the only reason he could see that the officers did not get out was that the left wing might have crumpled, trapping them in the plane.  T/4 Woodrow D. Matthews, crew chief of the bomber who put the parachute on Sgt. Taff saving his life was proposed for the Soldier's Medal. An FBI report states the left wing was found 125 yards from the plane impact site and likely fell off throwing the plane into a plummeting spin. Later that day Kenneth Arnold again received a call from Ted Morello. The mysterious informant that kept calling Morello stated the B-25 bomber from Hamilton Field had been shot down by a 20mm cannon. The Tacoma Times that day's headlines read "Sabotage Hinted in Crash of Army Bomber at Kelso" and a sub-headline read "Plane May Hold Flying Disk Secret". Written by Paul Lance the article stated the plane had been sabotaged or shot down to prevent shipment of flying disk fragments to Hamilton Field, California, for analysis. "The disk parts were said by the informant to be those from one of the mysterious platters which plunged to earth on the Maury Island" recently. Leading substance to the caller's theory is the fact that twelve hours before the Army released official identification, the informant correctly identified the dead in the crash to be Capt. William L. Davidson and 1st Lt. Frank M. Brown. This Tacoma Times article also stated "At McChord field an intelligence officer confirmed the informants report that the B-25 Bomber had been carrying classified material".

Paul Lance was later to die two weeks later of unknown reasons. Pathologist studied his body for thirty six hours but could not find any cause of death. Arnold was later informed that the crash was caused by the loss of an exhaust collector ring on the left engine. It was never explained by the military why Capt. Davidson and Lt. Brown never notified anyone by radio of their distress nor why they themselves did not parachute. It is likely both Davidson and Brown knew the urgency of the situation but stayed with the plane until the last moments and then it became too late. There has been no indication that the officers were conducting any additional classified missions other than interviewing the UFO sighting witnesses and carrying any other type of evidence on board. Seattle Post Intelligencer Aug. 3, 1947 AP report states "Pieces not Located." Brig. Gen. Ned Schramm, chief of staff, Fourth Air Force, said he knew nothing about reports that the plane was carrying "classified or secret material." "As far as I know, the plane was supposed to come in here empty." he said, "and there wasn't a single, solitary, secret thing aboard".  Air Rescue Service Final Mission Report states "at 0930PST, a message from Sq.B informed that top secret material was in the navigators kit and to request Commanding Officer McChord Field to expedite all available information to Commanding Officer Hamilton Field".




20 MAY 1968:


UFO's flew over the nation's capitol in 1952, radar had them flying over the White House at 1,700 feet:

UFO July 1952/July 2002 US Capitol

From the Washington Post, July 28, 1952:

Investigation On In Secret After Chase Over Capital by Paul Sampson, Post Reporter July 28, 1952:

Military secrecy veils an investigation of the mysterious, glowing aerial objects that showed up on radar screens in the Washington area Saturday night for the second consecutive week.

A jet pilot sent up by the Air Defense Command to investigate the objects reported he was unable to overtake the glowing lights moving near Andrews Air Force Base.

The CAA reported reported the objects traveled at "predominantly lower levels"-about 1700 feet. July 19.

Air Force spokesmen said yesterday only that an investigation was being made into the sighting of the objects on the radar screen in the CAA Air Route Traffic Control Center at Washington National Airport, and on two other radar screens . Methods of the investigations were classified as secret, a spoken said.

" We have no evidence they are flying saucers; conversely we have no evidence they are not flying saucers. We don't know what they are," a spokesman added.

The same source reported an expert from the Air Technical Intelligence Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton Ohio, was here last week investigating the objects sighted July 19.

The expert has been identified as Capt. E. J. Ruppelt. Reached by telephone at his home in Dayton yesterday, Ruppelt said he could make no comment on his activity in Washington.

Capt. Ruppelt confirmed he was in Washington last week but said he had not come here to investigate the mysterious objects. He recalled he did make an investigation after hearing of the objects, but could not say what he investigated.

Another Air Force spokesman said here yesterday the Air Force is taking all steps necessary to evaluate the sightings. "The intelligence people," this spokesman explained, "sent someone over to the control center at the time of the sightings and did whatever necessary to make the proper evaluation.

Asked whether the radar equipment might have been mis-functioning, the spokesman said, "radar, like the compass is not a perfect instrument and is subject to error." He thought, however,the investigation would be made by persons acquainted with the problems of radar.

Two other radar screens in the area picked up the objects.An employee of the National Airport control tower said the radar scope there picked up very weak "blips" of the objects. The tower radar's for "short range" and is not so powerful as that at the center. Radar at Andrews Air Force Base also registered the objects from about seven miles south of the base.

A traffic control center spokesman said the nature of the signals on the radar screen ruled out any possibility they were from clouds or any other "weather" disturbance.

"The returns we received from the unidentified objects were similar and analagous to targets representing aircraft in flight," he said.

The objects, "flying saucer or what have you, appeared on the radar scope at the airport center at 9:08 PM. Varying from 4 to 12 in number,the objects appeared on the screen until 3:00 AM., when they diappeared.

AT 11:25 PM., two F-94 jet fighters fro Air Defense Command squadron, at New CAstle Delaware, capable of 600 hundred mph speeds, took off to investigate the objects.

Airline, civil and military pilots described the objects as looking like the lit end of a cigarette or a cluster of orange and red lights.

One jet pilot observed 4 lights in the vicinity of Andrews Air Force Base, but was not able to over-take them, and they disappeared in about two minutes.

The same pilot observed a steady white light in the vicinity of Mt Vernon at 11:49 PM. The light, about 5 miles from him, faded in a minute. The lights were also observed in the Beltsville, MD., vicinity. At 1:40 AM two-other F-94 jet fighters took off and scanned the area until 2:20 AM., but did not make any sightings.

Visible Two Ways

Although "unidentified objects" have been picked up on radar before, the incidents of the last two saturdays are believed to be the first time the objects have been picked up on radar-while visible to the human eye

Besides the pilots, who last saturday saw the lights, a woman living on Mississippi Ave., told the Post she saw a very "bright light streaking across the sky towards Andrews Air Force Base about 11:45 PM. Then a second object with a tail like a comet whizzed by, and a few seconds later, a third passed in a different direction toward Suntland, she said.

Radar operators plotted the speed of "saturday night's visitors" at from 38 to 90 mph, but one jet pilot reported faster speeds for the light he saw.

The jet pilot reported he had no apparent "closing speed" when he attempted to reach the lights he saw near Andrews Air Force Base. That means the lights were moving atleast as fast as his top speed-a maximum of 600 mph.

One person who saw the lights when they first appeared in this area did not see them last night. He is E.W. Chambers, an engineer at Radio Station WRC, who spotted the lights while working early the morning of July 20 at station's Hyattsville tower.

Chamber's said he was sorry he had seen the lights because he had been skeptical about "flying saucers" before. Now he said, he sort of "wonders" and worrys about the whole thing.

Leon Davidson, 804 South Irving St. Arlington, a chemical engineer who made an exhaustive study of "flying saucers' as a hobby, said yesterday reports of saucers in the East, have been relatively rare.

Davidson has studied the official report on the saucers, including some of the secret portions never made public, and analyzed all the data in the report.

Davidson, whose study of saucers is impressively detailed and scientific, said he believes the lights are American "aviation products"-probably "circular flying wings," using new type jet engines that permit rapid acceleration and relatively low speeds. He believes, they are either "new fighter," guided missiles, or piloted guided missiles.

He cited some of the recent jet fighters, including the Navy's new " F-4-D, which has a radical "bat-wing," as examples of what the objects might resemble.

Davidson thinks the fact that the lights have been seen in this area indicates the authorities may be ready to disclose the "new aircraft" in the near future. Previously, most of the "verified saucers" have been seen over sparsely inhabited areas, Davidson explained, and now, when they appear here, it may indicate that "secrecy" is not so important any more.



Interesting stuff, Cindi! In 1952, we lived in Ft. Myers, VA. My dad was the NCOIC of the clerks in the Office of the Secretary of Defense in the Pentagon. I imagine he saw a lot of correspondence about the UFO flap. I personally saw the formations of lights over the Capitol in Washington. I was 9 years old, and I and my two younger brothers were coming home from fishing in the Potomac River and saw them. My father never, for the rest of his life, ever talked about it. Not one word.

Terence Maroste      "We're Paratroopers, Lieutenant. We're
Maj, CAP                   supposed to be surrounded."
SWR-TX-293                  -Captain Richard Winters


I helped restore an 1940's USAAF RC trainer and it looked pretty funky, certainly not like a disc though.
With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right...


Old newscasts on ufo's -

Kenneth Arnold Interviewed by Bill Berquette on June 25, 1947:, 1.2 MB

ABC Headline Edition: Taylor Grant's July 7, 1947 newscast of disc recovery by roswell Army Air Field personnel:, 637 KB

ABC Radio broadcast of July 10, 1947, Search for Flying Saucers, with WalterKlernon:, 2.4 MB

CBS Radio Special Report, Case for the Flying Saucers, with Edward R. Murrow (aired in May, 1949):, 5.5 MB


About two weeks after Kenneth Arnold's "flying saucer" sighting in Washington State, on July 8, 1947 to be exact, this article appeared in the Roswell New Mexico Daily Record. The Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) public information officer Walter Haut in Roswell, New Mexico, had just issued a press release stating that personnel from the field's 509th Bomb Group had recovered a crashed "flying disk" from a ranch near Roswell:

RAAF Captures Flying Saucer
On Ranch in Roswell Region
No Details of Flying Disk Are Revealed

Roswell Hardware Man and Wife Report Disk Seen

    The intelligence office of the 509th Bombardment group at Roswell Army Air Field announced at noon today, that the field has come into possession of a flying saucer.

    According to information released by the department, over authority of Maj. J. A. Marcel, intelligence officer, the disk was recovered on a ranch in the Roswell vicinity, after an unidentified rancher had notified Sheriff Geo. Wilcox here, that he had found the instrument on his premises.

    Major Marcel and a detail from his department went to the ranch and recovered the disk, it was stated.

    After the intelligence officer here had inspected the instrument it was flown to higher headquarters.

    The intelligence office stated that no details of the saucer's construction or its appearance had been revealed.

    Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot apparently were the only persons in Roswell who saw what they thought was a flying disk.

    They were sitting on their porch at 105 South Penn. last Wednesday night at about ten o'clock when a large glowing object zoomed out of the sky from the southeast, going in a northwesterly direction at a high rate of speed.

    Wilmot called Mrs. Wilmot's attention to it and both ran down into the yard to watch. It was in sight less then a minute, perhaps 40 or 50 seconds, Wilmot estimated.

    Wilmot said that it appeared to him to be about 1,500 feet high and going fast. He estimated between 400 and 500 miles per hour.

    In appearance it looked oval in shape like two inverted saucers, faced mouth to mouth, or like two old type washbowls placed together in the same fashion. The entire body glowed as though light were showing through from inside, though not like it would be if a light were underneath.

    From where he stood Wilmot said that the object looked to be about 5 feet in size, and making allowance for the distance it was from town he figured that it must have been 15 to 20 feet in diameter, though this was just a guess.

    Wilmot said that he heard no sound but that Mrs. Wilmot said she heard a swishing sound for a very short time.

    The object came into view from the southeast and disappeared over the treetops in the general vicinity of six mile hill.

    Wilmot, who is one of the most respected and reliable citizens in town, kept the story to himself hoping that someone else would come out and tell about having seen one, but finally today decided that he would go ahead and tell about it. The announcement that the RAAF was in possession of one came only a few minutes after he decided to release the details of what he had seen.


The next day the press reported that Commanding General of the Eighth Air Force (Roger M. Ramey) stated that, in fact, a radar-tracking balloon had been recovered by the RAAF personnel, not a "flying disc." I hesitate to call General Ramey a liar; but since then the official story has changed a couple times. The Wilmots' in the above story reported the object going between 400 and 500 miles an hour. Do weather balloons travel that fast? New official explanations have since came forward. The first "new story," released in 1995, concluded that the reported recovered material in 1947 was likely debris from a secret government program called Project Mogul, which involved high altitude balloons meant to detect sound waves generated by Soviet atomic bomb tests and ballistic missiles. The second "new story," released in 1997, concluded that reports of recovered alien bodies were likely a combination of innocently transformed memories of military accidents involving injured or killed personnel, innocently transformed memories of the recovery of anthropomorphic dummies in military programs like Project High Dive conducted in the 1950s, and hoaxes perpetrated by various witnesses and UFO proponents. The question you might ask yourself, if the original press release by officer Walter Haut was true, why were flying disks visiting New Mexico? At that time New Mexico was the site of atomic bomb tests near Alamogordo, tests of the V-2 rockets at White Sands and the Roswell Army Air Base was the only home of nuclear bomb equipped bombers at that time. 


So far in our story, we have Kenneth Arnold seeing "flying saucers" right after searching for a Marine plane over Mount Rainer in June 1947 and two weeks later the Army Air Force releasing a press statement saying they had recovered a "flying disc" in New Mexico. There are lessons to be learned here: If you do find a "flying disc," you probably should not issue a press release right away.


The first Secretary of Defense James Vincent Forrestal (February 15, 1892 – May 22, 1949) died from a fall out of a 16th-floor window at the Bethesda Naval Hospital. No one knows what happened; no one saw a thing. Some speculated he wanted to go public about the "flying discs," but that is just speculation.


Then there is the story of Jackie Gleason and President Nixon. It was a chance conversation one afternoon, back in 1974 in Florida, while Jackie was playing golf with one of his regular partners, President Richard Nixon. Jackie had mentioned his interest in UFOs and his large collection of books, and the president admitted that he also shared Jackie's interest and had a sizeable collection of UFO-oriented materials of his own. At the time, the president said little about what he actually knew, but things were to change drastically later on that same night.

Then without notice, President Nixon showed up at his house around midnight, completely alone and driving his own private car. When Jackie asked him why he was there, Nixon told him that he wanted to take him somewhere and show him something. He got into the president's car, and they ended up at the gates of Homestead Air Force Base. They passed through security and drove to the far end of the base, to a tightly-guarded building. Following is a quote directly from Gleason himself, from an interview he gave to UFO researcher and author Larry Warren:

"We drove to the very far end of the base in a segregated area, finally stopping near a well-guarded building. The security police saw us coming and just sort of moved back as we passed them and entered the structure. There were a number of labs we passed through first before we entered a section where Nixon pointed out what he said was the wreckage from a flying saucer, enclosed in several large cases. Next, we went into an inner chamber and there were six or eight of what looked like glass-topped Coke freezers. Inside them were the mangled remains of what I took to be children. Then - upon closer examination - I saw that some of the other figures looked quite old. Most of them were terribly mangled as if they had been in an accident."

Now that story about President Nixon is hard to believe. I can't fathom a President driving his own car without a secret service detail.  But it turns out Nixon had a history of sneaking out on his own. In the following incident, thousands of Vietnam War protestors had the White House and Washington DC under siege. Then at four in the morning Nixon and his valet went over to the Lincoln Memorial where hundreds of protestors were camped out:

New Nixon Tapes Reveal Details of Meeting With Anti-War Activists

Oliver Stone showed this incident in his movie "Nixon."

"The Beast" Nixon At the Lincoln Monument


1947 and 1952 were big years for UFOs.

The Delbert Newhouse sighting was from 1952:

Delbert Newhouse UFO Footage - 1952 - Tremonton, Utah

More about the 1952 Washington DC sightings and President Truman:

UFO and The White House Part II of XII President Truman