Historians List

[BillB]

Why don't Wings have any lists of Squadron Historians? Or for that matter, National have such a list? In talking to several Squadron Historians, they advised they have never heard anything from the Wing Historian. Does the Wing Historian know they exist? Is there any communication among Historians? Do Squadron Historians know what material the Wing Historian may have on their Squadron, or what other Historians might have on their Squadron, past or present?
By the same token, what might the Squadron Historian have that the Wing Historian doesn't have? Does the Wing Historian have the histories of every Squadron in their Wing? Why is there no communications anywhere in the Historian Specialty Track?

[ol'fido]

From what I have seen in the past few years, the history program varies widely by location and unit level. In some cases, it seems to  be like trying to get a good grip on smoke. In some cases the squadron histories are passed down as scrapbooks to be kept up. The biggest hindrance I see outside of wings is continuity. With one year memberships and units constantly folding and starting up at different levels, there is no effort to maintain records on the local level many times.

For instance, I used to be in Group 12 and then wing reorganized the groups and we combined with Group 19 to become Group 1 which had previously been in Chicago. Group 22 is now headquarted in Chicago but it used to be in Carmi, IL in the early 60's. Did the records follow these units? I Doubt it. Where did the records go? Adressing that lack of continuity and an organized archive at different levels would help. Also, more clear guidance on what records and items to archive would help.

[BillB]

According to the 2008 Report to Congress, there are over 1500 Squadrons in CAP How many of those have active Historians? And if they do, who coordinates the collection of the histories? Does a Squadron Historian know what the Wing Historian my have on his/her Squadrons history? From what I've observed, most Squadron Historians are only in that position for two maybe three years before they move on in the program. When they move chances are some of the history gets lost. As an example, I shipped two large boxes of photos of Florida Wing activities from about 1950 to 80 to the Wing Historian. Now all these photos appear to be lost during the changes of Historians.

[RiverAux]

Well, this information is fairly easily obtained out of eservices if you have the proper permissions.  You can pull up lists of those appointed to whatever staff position you desire or pull up lists of those in various specialty tracks. 

My guess is that the historian position has probably the lowest rate of staff positions being filled of any in CAP.   There just aren't a lot of people in the world with the inclination to do that job.  Of course, CAP doesn't make it very easy given that it produces very little in the way of documentation that is of real historical value.  The other major problem is that when you do have an active historian they tend to accumulate the stuff they collect at their home and when they quit or die it may not be turned back to CAP. 

[BillB]

The problem lies in what historical papers, memoribilia, uniforms etc that CAP members, Historians and National Historian staff may have collected. There is no central catalog of who has what. Surely there is a small building at Maxwell that can house the collections. Cadets and volunteers from Alabama, Georgia and Florida Wings could spend a week cataloging such a collection. Between what the National Historian, the Curator of the Historical Foundations and Wing Historians might have stored away, this would be a major undertaking. But with the material scattered among all of the Historians in CAP, there is no idea what might be in closets, dusty files and so on. 

[RiverAux]

Which is why I have advocated the past that CAP find a respected university manuscript collection or appropriate military museum towards which all documents and historical items should be sent.  CAP will never have enough money to properly house and care for these items while making them accessible to historians (both CAP and non-CAP).  I don't think this would be all that difficult to arrange and I really don't understand why it hasn't been done yet. 

[ol'fido]

Archiving at the local level can be a challenge. As BillB stated many historians are only members for 2-3 years and when they depart there is often no effort made to collect what material they have and retain it at the squadron. Also, many units are working with limited space and may not own the facilities they have thus making storage a real pain. When you get to the Group level, many groups may not even have a physical HQ outside of the commander's home or office. While wings and regions may have a HQ building or office suite, how much of that is available for archival storage?

Beyond archiving, there is also the problem of what to archive and how to do it. There is a tendency to save every scrap of paper or to throw everything out after 5 years. There is no telling how much of our history ended up in the garbage because some well meaning commander or admin officer wanted to "clean out the files".

One solution to this might be to piggy back onto the PAO program and have Historian seminars and training events in conjunction with PA training as these seem to be complementary fields of study. How much of our history is preserved in the form of news stories and photo, unit newsletters, activity yearbooks, and photos. The only thing the historian would have to guard against is the PAO's desire to edit out the warts and present a polished image.

Another thing that is making the traditional historians job harder and easier at the same time is CAP's growing reliance on electronic forms and documentation. Scanners, social media, and thumb drives can allow storage of documents in a relatively small and convenient form. But they can also result in the loss of irreplaceable material due to viruses and computer crashes.

[Eclipse]

At a minimum, anything of value, even insignia and similar articles, should be scanned, photographed, and kept somewhere which is independent of any one person.

((*cough*))  googleappsforeducation ((*cough*))

[Smithsonia]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
River/Ol'Fido/BillB;
This is being done right now - at www.Teamcap.org and the TeamCap scribd site which is connected.

Mark Hess' collection is big, growing, and accepting donations of collection images right now. The deep, consistent, and ongoing research of the past is patiently being scanned and conserved. I don't know of any member who has given more in an attempt to centralize and distribute all of CAP's History than Lt. Col. Hess. Don't forget at the moment this is a library and not yet an interpretive center. If we can attract enough historian attention and assign reading and analysis - then we'll have more summaries, composites, and analytical reports.

For instance Mark has uncovered much about Willa Brown and is attempting to get an Illinois Wing member to interview Ms. Brown's best friend. This kind of work is going on in the background. The JF. Curry work continues and large supplement on Earl Johnson should be next.

What NHQ does - comes and goes, ebbs and flows with succeeding administrations. I think the continuity of the program is held among the individual members (Regular members with an interest in history, Historians/AEOs/and PAOs) who dedicate themselves to self assigned and important projects.

I would say that more has been done for the Historian Program over the last 3 years than the previous 66.

Another great place to find information is YOUTUBE. Here's an interview with Jimmy Doolittle's daughter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgt8PMoRGG8&featur
The web and its various utilities makes so much available. The trick is to collect, centralize, and then distribute this material. CaptTalk has done much too and should be thanked, deeply.

[RiverAux]

That is a nice site but it isn't an official CAP site and is just as vulnerable as any pile of papers in the wing historian's house.  He can shut it down and delete it at his whim. 

Materials need to go to a real document collection that isn't subject to the whims of any one individual. 

[Smithsonia]

River;
I agree that for perpetuity sake the site needs to be Godfathered. I understand that there are discussions along these lines. I don't know more than that. "Official" recognition had nothing to do with starting this project - Only one man's deep and abiding interest in CAP History.

Being one person who's witnessed all sorts of garage bands, computer companies, and Cable Television network start ups - Once one man/woman sticks their neck out and says follow me over the top - Good things can follow. I trust that the same will happen here. www.TeamCap.org has more history than exists at National Headquarters and the CAP Historical Foundation combined - so letting it fade seems unlikely. Those are "official" both of those sites are moribund. Freedom and intellectual independence have been important to this point - at some point it won't be and perpetuation will become more important.

The same was True for the Getty, Smithson, and Guggenheim private collections that became national treasures.

[BillB]

Ed does anyone know what the National Historian or the Historical Foundation has? I doubt Jim Shaw has a complete listing of what the Foundation might have since he hasn't been Curator that long. Part of the problem is what has been cataloged, and where might it be available to Squadron Historians? It would be nice if the Historian of the Mickey Mouse Composite Squadron might be able to see what National or the Foundation has on their Squadron. Possibly National has something the Squadron doesn't have.
And you're right Historians need to scan their files and send them to Mark at WWW.teamcivilairpatrol.org.

[Smithsonia]

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Bill;
I know there are people aware of the problem. We faced it too when considering how to begin work on the www.TeamCap.org site. At that time we couldn't get access to the CAP National Historian exhibits and images. I think that there will need to be an archival accounting. I've been asked to consider doing it - however, I am not an archivist (which is more library sciences in nature). I am more of an interpretive historian. Think of this process like the CIA - there are information collectors (in history these are researchers) then there are organizers of the information (in history these are archivist and this is where the program currently falls down) and then there are people like me who tell the stories taken from the researchers and archivists basic work.

Meaning - The collections under Leonard Blascovich and Jim Shaw need an accounting archivist and they need a regiment of archivists - more than they need an interpretive historian. For my purposes it was easier to start from scratch than take the years to learn the trade secrets of the archivist, sort through the materials, and catalogue the material, interpret and research the material, and then preserve the physical material. Better to collect the images from scratch and move forward with pace, than clean up the work of others who may and may not be willing participants.

Given all of the considerations above - I have been given gross numbers of documents and images in the national collections - Mark Hess at TeamCap has more by a multiple factor. Once completed there will be millions and millions of pages at www.TeamCap.org - But then it also has Air Force and military history on the site too.

[James Shaw]

So has this turned into "beat up" on the Historical Program and its people now?

[Eclipse]

My last count on CAPWatch showed 1445 charters total.

I don't view any of this discussion as "beating up" anyone.

BTW -

http://www.teamcivilairpatrol.org/  does not work but is referenced above.

[ol'fido]

So has this turned into "beat up" on the Historical Program and its people now?

I would say it's more about trying to make the local and group history programs better and trying to find a systematic way to go about preserving and ensuring continuity at that level.

[Smithsonia]

In defense of Jim Shaw's frustration. Some days historians feel like an alert officer trying to organize a UDF mission at a remote airport on a blizzardy Christmas Morning. We get lots of "you oughta go do this or that" but not that many volunteers. AND, while there are (X) number of historians there are (X minus minus) number of "active" historians.

As our 70th anniversary approaches, my understanding is - there is a push coming from National to change this. I hope so.

That said, I get kudos and appreciation a plenty from the Colorado Wing. I feel blessed and richly rewarded in my Squadron, Group, AND Wing. Layers of former CCs from various states, Region CCs, and even a former National Commander regularly attend my history functions along with other eager and attentive members. So for me, next to my ES service, Historian is the best job in CAP.

[tarheel gumby]

In some wings the command staff just don't know what to do with an active historian. I am slowly trying to change that in NCWG but inertia takes time to overcome.

[Smithsonia]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
go Go GO!  Joe!!   Make them... know!!!

[RiverAux]

So has this turned into "beat up" on the Historical Program and its people now?

Not at all.  There have been several historians that have done quite a lot to preserve CAP's history and the fact that we have a historical program at all is a major plus in comparison to many other organizations. 

However, a historical program that does not have its collections in a safe, permanent well-cataloged archive that is open to researchers has a major flaw.