Undiscussed big time WW2 CAP mission

[Smithsonia]

There were nearly 200 Enemy POW Camps in the US in WW2. I know this is a surprising number of camps... but these places housed
100s of thousands of enemy combatants. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_POW_camps_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_G%C3%A4rtner
The last escaped WW2 German POW found in the US? 1985 (yes that's right I said 1985) in Boulder Colorado. I interviewed the guy a few years ago.

Every camp had an escape or two. Not much was said at the time so as not to upset civilians nearby. However one of our standard CAP WW2 missions was finding these escapees. So far I have at least 6 stories, 20 or so escapees, and at least one killing that included CAP chasing Nazis and Japanese around the Southwest US. That said, I'll betcha there are dozens more stories just waiting to be found.

RiverAux was kind enough to send this one to me today:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0O0iAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xP8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=7114,40229&dq=civil+air+patrol&hl=en

[JC004]

wow.

[Major Lord]

Awesome information! You would not have any information on CAP's Wolf Eradication program in your historical bag of tricks, would you?

Major Lord

[JC004]

This stuff is neat.  Maybe I should have got involved with the Historian specialty track instead of going through the frustration of the stuff I WAS doing at wing HQ...

Actually, they didn't care about the history stuff that I proposed either...  

[RiverAux]

Awesome information! You would not have any information on CAP's Wolf Eradication program in your historical bag of tricks, would you?

Major Lord

If you go to Google News and search on Civil Air Patrol and Coyotes you will find a few stories about OK wing doing this. 

[vmstan]

That's pretty BA. It really is a shame CAP got neutered after the war.

[RiverAux]

You can find stories of CAP assisting law enforcment in looking for suspects and escaped prisoners at least into the mid-1950s. 

[ol'fido]

Maybe we can go look for the 10 Afghan trainees that have snuck out of Lackland AFB lately. Actually 17 left but they have found 7. They were there for military training and deserted one by one over a period of time.

[Smithsonia]

During WW2 we also Bombed America. Here's an account from Sauk County Wisconsin:
Reedsburg was "bombed" in January, 1944. Planes zoomed low over the city and dropped their loads on unsuspecting citizens below. It wasn't an enemy air raid and the load didn't consist of explosives. The material dropped consisted of leaflets with the picture of a bomb and the words, "This might have been a bomb! But it's not, because American men are fighting with every weapon they have! Are you? Women � Join the Womens' Army Corps."

It was part of a recruiting program for the WAC (Women's Army Corps) and the leaflets were dropped by members of the Civil Air Patrol.

[Smithsonia]

Here's yet another CAP chases German WW2 POW escapee story from Tennesee early in WW2:
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20050126/COLUMNIST0102/705110362/POW-escapes-barely-stirred-Midstate

[Smithsonia]

Regarding my previous post about CAP Bombing American Towns with Leaflets, SEE HERE:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/33297934/1943-Civil-Air-Patrol-Bomb-Leaflet

This is a picture of the leaflets that were dropped. It was also a recruitment tool for the Patrol, back in the day. This one is from the Nebraska Wing... but nearly every community in America that had an active CAP Squadron got a dose of these some time during the War.

[a2capt]

Thats cool, fold it up, shove it in an envelope and mail it. .. .
The front looks heavier so it actually tries to fall, and serves as a flap holder for when folded.

Today, you get in some serious trouble for mailing ..  umm..  'bombs'

Does it fit in a letter envelope?


I'd considering making them if I had a scan with a ruler next to it, as authentic replicas.

[JC004]

Could we get permission from Maxwell to drop leaflets on NHQ about the style guide, Triangle Thingy, and other important issues that need to be addressed?   

[Smithsonia]

I wouldn't call this a racket but it was not atypical during WW2.
Many Civil Pilot Training Program (CPTP) Fields were collocated with CAP squadrons. These CPTP fields were owned by private and public entities. ALL of these fields lived on selling gas and services. TRAFFIC was the key to success. Many airfields had the same personnel running both organizations (CAP and CPTP). Many fields routinely switched back and forth between pilot training(CPTP) and air service missions (CAP). One (CAP with mission status such as sub hunting) was used to sell the other (just straight pilot training through the CPTP.) This was very typical at small and rural airfields.

So in some cases and for reasons that make perfect sense: CAP was the unofficial promotional arm of the CPTP and vice-a-versa.

While this was good for business and good for the war effort... it has complicated the organization of the history of CAP as many items have a gray boundary between the 2 organizations and the history has a certain unsavory and unclear advertising and public relations flavor. Books like Flying Minute Men reflect this lack of clarity and intellectual rigor.

Hence, when you really look deeply into much of what we think of as factual CAP HISTORY - we find it a series of compromises and marriages of convenience. Some of the impending news on this matter will simply be startling. Some, like the one posted above, will be quite understandable. SO, more on this issue soon...

[Flying Pig]

That's pretty BA. It really is a shame CAP got neutered after the war.

Yeah but lets face it.  When thousands of combat vets returned home, those who remained stateside (regardless of the reasons) will undoubtedly take a back seat.  "Hey, thanks for your help, but the combat vets are home now, we will take it from here."  I cant imagine any combat vet looked at CAP any more than "You got to stay home."  CAP was here to pick up the slack for when the full timers left to fight.  When the full timers came home, CAP stepped back into the shadows.   Our history is unique during that time for a volunteer organization but lets face it, CAP was all they had.  Everyone else was to old, to young or dodging bullets.  When WWII broke out the go to guys didn't join CAP.  The world was a lot more "unregulated" then.  I have to imagine many of those "missions" were CAP members saying "Yeah, Me and Billy will help you chase Germans.  We got an airplane we can use too!" More so than CAP actually being called upon to do it.

However, CAP chasing Nazi's is pretty cool. 

[fireplug]

But were not CAP members/airplanes the only "private" aircraft allowed to fly during WW II? Or at least able to get fuel and tires legally?

[Smithsonia]

The Civilian Pilot Training Program and the CAP were full of WW1 Vets. So lots of men were Over There. Farmers, students, women, military plant workers, oil field workers, etc... were all exempt in WW2 because we needed them here to run the pieces and parts for Over There.
That said, this group also joined CAP, the Red Cross, and The Office of Civil Defense in droves.

Many CAP Pilots were wounded WW2 vets also. They couldn't get an Air Corps or Navy Medical but they could pass an FAA/CAA Medical.

CAP flew to Air Corps Standards particularly during the War.

Flying Pig - Your speculation was derogatory to the members who served then but mostly just plain untrue. 

[Flying Pig]

  Do you have stats on how many were wounded vets?  I have no doubt some were, but probably very few.

[Smithsonia]

Flying Pig.

I don't have numbers on Wounded WW2 or WW1 Vets in CAP service during the war. About 55-65% (depending upon who's numbers you use) of all CAP Flying Personnel during WW2 had prior service. Also many members served in the military between the wars.

Add to this number others who remained home as Police, Fire, and Civilian employees or in civil service and the numbers get close to 75-80%.

This is a number that pales in comparison to those cadets (which are not included in the percentages above as they weren't flying members) that used CAP as a kind of ad-hoc ROTC for the under aged - in order to join the military (during the war) at a higher rank or with a privilege not allowed standard draftees.

I talked to a guy last week who was in Siapan, wounded, and worked in the CAP during his long convalescence. Eventually he was returned to service and flew helicopters in Korea.

To this point. What Air Corps Group had the highest number of flight hours during the war? The Courier Service of the CAP with around 200 pilots and observers (meaning 100 crews total) averaged 12-14,000 flying hours a month from mid '43- late '45. You can do the math on the number of hours a month each member flew.

It was a scurrilous insult that the CAP was made of rich men and draft dodgers during the war. For one thing, you couldn't dodge the WW2 draft... not without great personal and professional jeopardy. Plus while many were rich... because they owned airplanes during a time when flying was rare and men of means even rarer... all that I have heard of had been pilots in the military or were flying for the Government, military contractors, or on airlines. Henry Ford's corporate pilot was a CAP member. So was the Boeing test pilot for the B-29.

As an example of these men, let me present "Ike" Wright Vermilya This guy was hardly a slacker. Please see here: http://www.group7hq.com/wright-vermilya.aspx

I am not saying that there wasn't some volunteers who weren't worth much. I am saying that these cases were rare in an organization of 150,000-160,000 war time members. Usually if you couldn't cut it in CAP you were out. Add to this the WACs that were decommissioned towards the end of the war, the Wasps who came in at the end of the war, and you have a first rate volunteer service with a sterling record.

[Flying Pig]

Then I stand corrected. My comment was uncalled for.