Quote from: a2capt on March 07, 2014, 05:48:19 AM

Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 07, 2014, 04:24:03 AMBlazer with bowtie + medal. 

..about sums it up for me.

I didn't say it looked good. But that's what 39-1 says is the Mess Dress alternative.

Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 07, 2014, 04:24:03 AM

Quote from: CyBorg on March 06, 2014, 08:13:21 PM
Mess Dress - No equivalent.

Blazer with bowtie + medal. 

Quote from: Panache on March 07, 2014, 06:30:55 AM

Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 07, 2014, 04:24:03 AM

Quote from: CyBorg on March 06, 2014, 08:13:21 PM
Mess Dress - No equivalent.

Blazer with bowtie + medal. 

Youngest. General Officer. Ever.

Quote from: rugger1869 on March 07, 2014, 06:44:23 AM

Quote from: Panache on March 07, 2014, 06:30:55 AM

Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 07, 2014, 04:24:03 AM

Quote from: CyBorg on March 06, 2014, 08:13:21 PM
Mess Dress - No equivalent.

Blazer with bowtie + medal. 

Youngest. General Officer. Ever.

Poser

Quote from: MSG Mac on March 07, 2014, 10:25:24 AM
Poser

Hey pal!  That's Master General First Class McSoulpatch to the likes of you!   

Quote from: MSG Mac on March 07, 2014, 10:25:24 AM

Quote from: rugger1869 on March 07, 2014, 06:44:23 AM

Quote from: Panache on March 07, 2014, 06:30:55 AM

Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 07, 2014, 04:24:03 AM

Quote from: CyBorg on March 06, 2014, 08:13:21 PM
Mess Dress - No equivalent.

Blazer with bowtie + medal. 

Youngest. General Officer. Ever.

Poser

Really?! [/sarcasm]

Quote from: rugger1869 on March 07, 2014, 06:44:23 AM
Youngest. General Officer. Ever.

Custer was 23 when he first made Brigadier General.

Quote from: JeffDG on March 07, 2014, 01:16:59 PM

Quote from: rugger1869 on March 07, 2014, 06:44:23 AM
Youngest. General Officer. Ever.

Custer was 23 when he first made Brigadier General.

Lafayette was 19 when he was made a major general...

Quote from: JeffDG on March 07, 2014, 01:16:59 PM

Quote from: rugger1869 on March 07, 2014, 06:44:23 AM
Youngest. General Officer. Ever.

Custer was 23 when he first made Brigadier General.

And we all know how well that worked out.

I am still for khakis with bowtie and full size medals for special events. 

Quote from: Panache on March 07, 2014, 05:21:18 AM
It is two distinct shades of blue:

Blue Aviator Shirt:


Air Force Blue Shirt:


Also, assuming the we're still wearing the gray pants, it'll be pretty obvious we're not Air Force officers.

My idea would have that...which is why I designated it "minimum-change."

No insignia or grey trousers would change.

Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 07, 2014, 04:24:03 AM

Quote from: CyBorg on March 06, 2014, 08:13:21 PM
Mess Dress - No equivalent.

Blazer with bowtie + medal. 

I agree it is not equivalent, but worn with a nice shirt (i.e. french cuffs) it doesn't look that bad.

Think "Party Member" vs. the normal "Realtor / Olympic judge".

Interesting thought: even a drama-filled topic (HWSNBN and Harwell) degenerates into a uniform thread in three pages. 

I wonder if there's a law of forum inertia: A uniform thread will remain a uniform thread unless locked by a moderator. A thread on topic will remain a thread on topic unless a uniform is mentioned.

Quote from: UH60guy on March 07, 2014, 06:33:02 PM
Interesting thought: even a drama-filled topic (HWSNBN and Harwell) degenerates into a uniform thread in three pages. 

I wonder if there's a law of forum inertia: A uniform thread will remain a uniform thread unless locked by a moderator. A thread on topic will remain a thread on topic unless a uniform is mentioned.

Awhile back we had a uniform thread turn into aircraft operations or some such.  Everybody thought the world had ended.

Quote from: UH60guy on March 07, 2014, 06:33:02 PM
Interesting thought: even a drama-filled topic (HWSNBN and Harwell) degenerates into a uniform thread in three pages. 

I wonder if there's a law of forum inertia: A uniform thread will remain a uniform thread unless locked by a moderator. A thread on topic will remain a thread on topic unless a uniform is mentioned.

In this case, both Generalissimos' actions had a direct impact on CAP uniforms.

Quote from: UH60guy on March 07, 2014, 06:33:02 PM
Interesting thought: even a drama-filled topic (HWSNBN and Harwell) degenerates into a uniform thread in three pages. 

I wonder if there's a law of forum inertia: A uniform thread will remain a uniform thread unless locked by a moderator. A thread on topic will remain a thread on topic unless a uniform is mentioned.

It's more indication of the state CAP is in. 

The uniform is a mess, the grade structure is (apparently) confusing to everyone, especially those sensitive NCOs and officers
in other services who can't figure out who is in charge without a billboard, and everybody with an opinion puts their spin
on what members wear, not to mention the private "special clubs" who are allowed to do whatever they want.

My sons are in the BSA, their uniform is simple and straightforward, and "uniform".  Few questions have to be asked twice and
the majority of what the average member needs can be explained in 1-2 sheets with diagrams.

Ditto for the grade and leadership structure.

ARC?   Same.

Your neighborhood CERT?  Yup.

Local state SAR teams?  Pretty much.

Even the CGAux.

Hm...

When baseline issues that should simply "be" as a part of operations become front and center because
they are difficult, confusing, or most importantly divisive, then there's a core issue with the organization
which is being ignored to the detriment of all.

There are definitely issues with the uniform. However, it wouldn't be as bad if CAP members weren't so wrapped up about what they wear. I've never seen an organization in which members are so concerned with uniforms and insignias.

I've certainly never seen this in the Air Force. And I don't need to be reminded that the Air Force has one set of uniforms that everyone (most?) can wear and doesn't have to deal with the issues we have regarding our corporate uniforms.

But the bottom line is, what's more important? The uniform or the mission? The uniform or the organization? The uniform or the members? In CAP, it seems the uniform discussion is always front and center.

^ Again, it's because it's confusing, illogical, and divisive.

The USAF literally hands the clothing to its members and says "wear this".

Most CAP members have never worn a uniform of any kind, certainly not a military-style one, and
these days many may never wear much more formal then an open-collared shirt except for weddings
and funerals.

It's the first thing a member must pay for, and the first place they find that "things may not be what they seem"
in CAP reality.

Quote from: Eclipse on March 07, 2014, 08:03:46 PM
^ Again, it's because it's confusing, illogical, and divisive.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Quote from: Eclipse on March 07, 2014, 08:03:46 PM
The USAF literally hands the clothing to its members and says "wear this".

As anyone who has ever been to Clothing Issue at lovely Lackland will remember.

Quote from: Eclipse on March 07, 2014, 08:03:46 PM
Most CAP members have never worn a uniform of any kind, certainly not a military-style one, and
these days many may never wear much more formal then an open-collared shirt except for weddings
and funerals.

The first thing I noticed about CAP was the discrepancy in the membership brochures (which still showed hard rank and blue slides) and the people I was meeting (berry boards).  I asked about the discrepancy and that was when I was first told about Harwell.  My soon-to-be-fellow-squadron-mates were VERY embittered by it.

Some time later a former AFRES Chaplain, who was familiar with CAP, asked me, "what's with the garish-looking shoulder boards?"  I told him the information as I knew it.  He said "that's crazy; I never had trouble distinguishing CAP members (obviously his years of Seminary training enabled him to be able to read C-A-P on the shoulder marks).

Quote from: Eclipse on March 07, 2014, 08:03:46 PM
It's the first thing a member must pay for, and the first place they find that "things may not be what they seem"
in CAP reality.

Especially given that my first squadron only wore the AF-type uniform (the grey uniform was completely different back then), and when I went to make my first order at CAP Bookstore (sigh, those were the days), it was ALL AF-type stuff.

Nowadays the general trend I've seen for new members is to just buy a golf shirt and whatever grey trousers they can find at Salvation Army/Goodwill/SVdP, despite what the regs say.

Eclipse, and what's the solution? No matter which way you go, you'll have someone complaining about the change or lack of, for that matter.

- Eliminate the corporate uniforms. Remove weight and grooming standards and let everyone wear AF-style uniforms.

- Keep both styles of uniforms. Make the corporate uniforms more on par with the AF-style; more military like.

- Keep both styles of uniforms. Make the corporate uniforms less military like. No need for direct AF-style equivalency.

- Eliminate the AF-style uniform. Make a single corporate uniform for every member to wear. This uniform should be a distinctive CAP equivalent of the Air Force uniform.

- Eliminate the AF-style uniform. Make a single corporate uniform for every member to wear. This uniform should be a distinctive CAP, less military like uniform.

- The status quo. Everything stays the same.

Did I miss any options? Which one would appease every/most member(s)?