I couldn't agree more with forgetting about trying to store historical materials at the squadron or wing levels -- they WILL GET TOSSED OUT OR LOST.  They should go directly to real archives for storage by real archivists where they would actually be available for use by real historians. 

I have already encountered this situation, but does not have a monopoly on poor organizational history.  This problem has been constant in every organization with whom I have provided my historian services.  I have support behind me to organize a massive donation of older wing records to the state archive with the intention of creating a CAP collection. The records will be digitized with a copy at wing HQ (and probably online), but the originals safely in the hands of professionals with the financial resources and trained personnel to manage things. 

No, I am not a formally trained archivist (I am as a historian), but as Charlie Wiest noted previously, the resources are out there to learn and acquire a degree of skill and knowledge.  I luckily have the fall back of a network of professional archivists and museum curators to turn to information when facing a dilemma or two.

I would say the whole lot of it should be collected and stored at the wing or higher level.

They will be the only ones with the resources to store it properly, and are going to be the lowest echelon with enough continuity
to avoid "Frank's basement" and "Mary's attic".

The answer is probably something akin to the WBP (WHP?) for historical artifacts.  Unit could check it out, display it, whatever, but everything would
be tracked by wing and collected later.  You could just add it to ORMS.

As to the attention History gets, it's just a matter of manpower and time.  For every unit with a Historian, there are 20 without, and
when the wing is working to keep the planes flying and the members engaged, not to mention trying to find commanders to serve now, it's hard to be too concerned about who the CC was 30 years ago.

You're forgeting that in many cases "Wing" IS Frank's basement in terms of their ability to store old records, photos, or artifacts. 

Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 03:07:58 AM
You're forgeting that in many cases "Wing" IS Frank's basement in terms of their ability to store old records, photos, or artifacts.

Granted, but wing is most likely to have the more permanent, larger facilities, and be the least transient.
Though I know in some wings Wing HQ moves when the CC changes.

Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 03:07:58 AM
You're forgeting that in many cases "Wing" IS Frank's basement in terms of their ability to store old records, photos, or artifacts.

Any Wing in that situation should get guidance from Region. 

Every Wing is in a different situation so if Wing HQ is not a good storage site is a Group or Squadron facility a better choice? Some Units are in a better situation than Wing or Region HQ.

Quote from: BillB on August 16, 2012, 01:16:44 AMThere is one regulation CAPR 210-1, plus CAPP 5 and CAPP 223 to provide guidance to a historian who chances are has no kowledge of a historical program.


There needs to be more guidance from Wing and National levels and annual one day or weekend Wing level conferences for Historians outside of Wing general Conferences. Mostly there needs to be better communications up and down the COC, keeping in mind a Squadron Historian is in a support position and can go directly to Wing, Region or even National Historian staff.

Two good points. The one thing about our Professional Development program is that Squadron's have a wide range of ability. A Squadron Historian with a Tech rating may really know a lot compared to another Squadron Historian with a Master rating. It was not only Historians, when I was an IG it was obvious in some Squadrons they gave away Master ratings to people/volunteers who really did not know their assignment, IMHO.

Their should be workshops for Historians similar to those for PAOs.

I believe the University of Texas started a program a few years ago encouraging Vietnam Veterans to record their personal stories.  I do not know if the program is still ongoing but seemed to be a wonderful living history project from actual participants.

In my own squadron we have a member, who if CAP used Navy terms, could be considered a "Plank Owner" as he was a CAP Cadet the day CAP came into existance.  We have another member who has been active in CAP since 1946, 2 Fifty Year Members, and a senior member who started as a cadet in the same Squadron in the early 1960's.

There are tales (some maybe even true), and photos of people and activities of days gone by.  However, people are a finite resource and have an "expiration date", and when that happens unless their history has been captured it is lost forever.

I am sure there are many other squadrons with equally interesting members, and wouldn't it be nice if the CAP made an effort to contact and record these living histories before they are lost?
 

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
I believe the University of Texas started a program a few years ago encouraging Vietnam Veterans to record their personal stories.  I do not know if the program is still ongoing but seemed to be a wonderful living history project from actual participants.

Take a look at the Library of Congress Veterans History Projecthttp://www.loc.gov/vets/. I had a change to drop by their office last year and was very impressed. This year, an acquaintance who works in the LOC came across an oral history by an early CAP member. As a result, she successfully requested the addition of "CAP" in the list of categories. That will make it easier for us to search the catalog. I know that one of the local university libraries has an extensive and very well-regarded oral history program; I've search their on-line catalog for "CAP", but no luck so far.

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
wouldn't it be nice if the CAP made an effort to contact and record these living histories before they are lost?
 

But Cliff, CAP does have an oral history program. To quote from the Book of Pogo: It is Us. Use CAPP 6, CAP Oral History Self-Study Guide. "CAP" is certainly not going to send someone down from the National historical staff to do it. Grab a tape recorder, prepare a list of "lead-off" questions, and sit down with these members. What about getting a couple of history-minded cadets involved? Or go to you local college and find an interested history major to conduct the oral interviews.

I know that CAP has collected oral interviews, but I haven't heard anything about the program in years and don't know what the current status is. Any comment from Jim Shaw? I have a list of Call Numbers for several interesting-sounding CAP interviews at the AF Historical Research Agency, but so far they're somewhere on my "To Do List"....

There is an online site for CAP History.   http://forum.teamcap.org/gallery/

Quote from: caphistorian on August 15, 2012, 07:41:29 PM

4) Are you talking about the Annual Reports to Congress for the Annual Reports?

The Annual Reports to Congress (which I've always assumed were prepared by the National Headquarters Staff, not the volunteer historical staff) are all available online. I was referring to the Annual Histories prepared by the National Historian. I found one two-volume set (cannot remember for what year) in the Air University's Fairchild Library, a tantalizing taste of what's in the history from other years.

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM...wouldn't it be nice if the CAP made an effort to contact and record these living histories before they are lost?

The oral history guide is fairly good, but again storage of the information is the issue. 

Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 08:42:16 PM
The oral history guide is fairly good, but again storage of the information is the issue.

Disk space is essentially free, and MP3s are small.  A Dropbox account or Google Drive would store a whole unit's history, with a few copies on DVD
for good measure.  Same goes for the "documents".  I suppose people see value in holding actual paper, but to share and exhibit,
scans are just as good.

Yes, but maintaining control of online storage space at the squadron or wing level is just as problematic as paper documents.  You can not trust volunteers with permanent maintenance of anything.

Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 08:49:07 PM
Yes, but maintaining control of online storage space at the squadron or wing level is just as problematic as paper documents.  You can not trust volunteers with permanent maintenance of anything.

True enough - perhaps the ultimate control should be at NHQ.  You have to draw the line somewhere, and the local unit is probably the least preferred choice.

The other thing is standards - when I said ".mp3" above, 4 people immediately said "Proprietary!, they should be .ogg!".

That would be the next "war".  Common sense would have everything in .mp3, .pdf, and .jpg, but we'll have all sorts of "opinions" about using proprietary
formats, commercial software, and non-free encoders.

I like .PNG much more!

Quote from: AdAstra on August 16, 2012, 07:32:15 PM

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
I believe the University of Texas started a program a few years ago encouraging Vietnam Veterans to record their personal stories.  I do not know if the program is still ongoing but seemed to be a wonderful living history project from actual participants.

Take a look at the Library of Congress Veterans History Projecthttp://www.loc.gov/vets/. I had a change to drop by their office last year and was very impressed. This year, an acquaintance who works in the LOC came across an oral history by an early CAP member. As a result, she successfully requested the addition of "CAP" in the list of categories. That will make it easier for us to search the catalog. I know that one of the local university libraries has an extensive and very well-regarded oral history program; I've search their on-line catalog for "CAP", but no luck so far.

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on August 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
wouldn't it be nice if the CAP made an effort to contact and record these living histories before they are lost?
 

But Cliff, CAP does have an oral history program. To quote from the Book of Pogo: It is Us. Use CAPP 6, CAP Oral History Self-Study Guide. "CAP" is certainly not going to send someone down from the National historical staff to do it. Grab a tape recorder, prepare a list of "lead-off" questions, and sit down with these members. What about getting a couple of history-minded cadets involved? Or go to you local college and find an interested history major to conduct the oral interviews.

I know that CAP has collected oral interviews, but I haven't heard anything about the program in years and don't know what the current status is. Any comment from Jim Shaw? I have a list of Call Numbers for several interesting-sounding CAP interviews at the AF Historical Research Agency, but so far they're somewhere on my "To Do List"....

I have published two CAP oral histories this year.  They are posted online, in an OHWG version (only difference is I added in images as the regs do not have a provision for this) and you can download the PDFs. 

http://www.ohwg.cap.gov/wing-historian/oralinterviewwithohwgcoastalpatrolveterancarlejividen

http://www.ohwg.cap.gov/wing-historian/oralinterviewwithohwgcoastalpatrolveteranrobertearn

Quote from: RiverAux on August 16, 2012, 08:49:07 PM
Yes, but maintaining control of online storage space at the squadron or wing level is just as problematic as paper documents.  You can not trust volunteers with permanent maintenance of anything.

Digital is nice, but the hard copy (paper) documents are a more viable format for long term storage.  You usually don't have to update your software to read a piece of paper.  What about the different media of storage?  I reiterate my view that since squadron and wing headquarters can be transient and records can take up valuable space, that people look to their state archives.  Keep the history in the state. If they go to a state archive, they will be logged into databases which are often online.  Nothing is more frustrating than receiving emails asking for specific information only to tell them "wing threw away the records," "rain destroyed them," "someone claims to have the records but they are unavailable," or "they are in storage in another state and they cannot be accessed."  The latter I direct to the response about sending the records to region or NHQ.  Keep them in the state, and then you can access them with a greater efficiency than if deposited hundreds of miles away.

Digital vs hard copy.....Look at the history of visual communications. For 50 years, 16mm film was the standard of home movies and early television presentation and news. Then came 8mm for home while 16mm remained for professional use. In the early 1970's a change started for TV production with TV stations using 2 inch video tape for production and 3/4 inch video tape for news. In the late 1980's TV switched to Betacam formats in many areas while others retained 3/4 inch video tape for production. Also in use was 8mm video tape and the start of digital memory. Today you will not find a TV station with 2 inch, 3/4 inch, 8mm players to even be able to transfer their old video libraries. So how can a CAP Squadron maintain their visual materials. It requires transferring old materials to the current recording systems.
CAP has most all of the original USAF films on CAP to be transferred. But to what medium? With still photograph negatives there is the same problem. The old Kodachrome film colors fade.. The same applies to AgfaColor, Ektachrome and the other films from the last century if you can't find a paper to make prints since the papers haven't been made for 20 years. So hard copies of photos in a file cabinet is best way to maintain a visual record of a Squadron.
While this post may ramble, you can see that the technology of 1945 can't to a great extent carry over to 2012. A continuing effort to upgrade visual material of historic value should be conducted at all levels.