Civil Air Patrol Search and Rescue Mission Coordinator Video (1972)

Started by Cindi, February 14, 2012, 08:45:11 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sardak

QuoteI found the profiling of the pilot interesting.  Almost reminded me of a crime drama.  I never knew that was part of the process. Perhaps before ELTs were common?
It may be done less today since ELTs and radar have helped reduce search time, but even with them, pilot profiling still should be done as it was in the video. In today's world this includes checking social media sites, flight tracking sites and Internet searches of the pilot, plane and other bits of info. I still interview friends, family members, instructors, mechanics, etc.

Mike

PHall

Quote from: EMT-83 on August 07, 2012, 07:47:51 PM
But the last Strowger switch was in use in Michigan until 2003.  ;)

Never heard of a "Strowger" switch. There are two types of mechanical switches. Step-by-step and Cross-bar.
Since I work for a Bell System company, all of the mechanical switches I've worked with have been made by Western Electric.

Garibaldi

Quote from: PHall on August 07, 2012, 07:40:19 PM
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 07, 2012, 10:51:50 AMas of 1998, at least, touch-tone was optional in Michigan. You actually had to pay extra for it.

I'm calling BS on this one.

When mechanical telephone switches were in use, then yes, they charged extra because an adapter was needed to translate the tones to pulses so they would work with the switch.

But when electronic switches came into use the adapter was no longer needed. The Public Utilities Commissions in most states ruled that if the adapter wasn't needed, the telephone companies could not charge extra for touch-tone service.

But what do I know, I've only worked for Pacific Telephone-Pacific Bell- SBC Pacific Bell-SBC-AT&T since 1980.

I worked for Ameritech during that time. Yes, Michigan Bell charged extra for touch-tone service at that time. For some reason their outside plant was the worst in the region IIRC.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

Garibaldi

Quote from: PHall on August 08, 2012, 01:08:06 AM
Quote from: EMT-83 on August 07, 2012, 07:47:51 PM
But the last Strowger switch was in use in Michigan until 2003.  ;)

Never heard of a "Strowger" switch. There are two types of mechanical switches. Step-by-step and Cross-bar.
Since I work for a Bell System company, all of the mechanical switches I've worked with have been made by Western Electric.

Siemens? Nortel? AT&T 5-ESS?
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

PHall

Quote from: Garibaldi on August 08, 2012, 01:16:56 AM
Quote from: PHall on August 08, 2012, 01:08:06 AM
Quote from: EMT-83 on August 07, 2012, 07:47:51 PM
But the last Strowger switch was in use in Michigan until 2003.  ;)

Never heard of a "Strowger" switch. There are two types of mechanical switches. Step-by-step and Cross-bar.
Since I work for a Bell System company, all of the mechanical switches I've worked with have been made by Western Electric.

Siemens? Nortel? AT&T 5-ESS?

Siemens and Nortel were used after the AT&T break-up. Old school AT&T used Western Electric only.
AT&T 5-ESS is the old Western Electric 5-ESS. Same machine built by the same people just built after Dec 1982.

We have a Nortel DMS-100 switch here in Riverside, CA (RVCA01) because we have large number of Federal and State Government offices who use Nortel's EBS phones, aka P-Phones. P-Phones will only work with a Nortel DMS switch.

denverpilot

One of the larger Verizon DMSs rebooted itself cabinet by cabinet a couple of weeks ago according to a friend who's systems were affected to the tune of over 40,000 busy signals.

I used to work in that biz. Amazing. A switch rebooting itself spontaneously. Ouch.

The funnier part? The official answer about why...

"No trouble found."

Only funny if you've worked in telco... ;)

Critical AOA

Quote from: sardak on August 07, 2012, 11:51:33 PM
QuoteI found the profiling of the pilot interesting.  Almost reminded me of a crime drama.  I never knew that was part of the process. Perhaps before ELTs were common?
It may be done less today since ELTs and radar have helped reduce search time, but even with them, pilot profiling still should be done as it was in the video. In today's world this includes checking social media sites, flight tracking sites and Internet searches of the pilot, plane and other bits of info. I still interview friends, family members, instructors, mechanics, etc.

Mike

Interesting.  I suppose my involvement has not been at a high enough level to know that was being done.  What type of information have you been able to learn from speaking with instructors and mechanics that aided in the search?  I understand that asking friends or family if they know the pilots destination, route of flight or en route stops is of high value but what other information discovered through these interviews has been helpful to you?
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw

EMT-83

Quote from: PHall on August 08, 2012, 01:08:06 AM
Quote from: EMT-83 on August 07, 2012, 07:47:51 PM
But the last Strowger switch was in use in Michigan until 2003.  ;)

Never heard of a "Strowger" switch. There are two types of mechanical switches. Step-by-step and Cross-bar.
Since I work for a Bell System company, all of the mechanical switches I've worked with have been made by Western Electric.

Strowger is the guy credited with inventing the step-by-step switch.

/derail

PHall

Quote from: denverpilot on August 08, 2012, 08:34:14 AM
"No trouble found."

Only funny if you've worked in telco... ;)

My favorite disposition code!   :clap:

Eclipse

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on August 08, 2012, 02:03:36 PM
Quote from: sardak on August 07, 2012, 11:51:33 PM
QuoteI found the profiling of the pilot interesting.  Almost reminded me of a crime drama.  I never knew that was part of the process. Perhaps before ELTs were common?
It may be done less today since ELTs and radar have helped reduce search time, but even with them, pilot profiling still should be done as it was in the video. In today's world this includes checking social media sites, flight tracking sites and Internet searches of the pilot, plane and other bits of info. I still interview friends, family members, instructors, mechanics, etc.

Mike

Interesting.  I suppose my involvement has not been at a high enough level to know that was being done.  What type of information have you been able to learn from speaking with instructors and mechanics that aided in the search?  I understand that asking friends or family if they know the pilots destination, route of flight or en route stops is of high value but what other information discovered through these interviews has been helpful to you?

Pilot profiling is absolutely still done, if anything we have more tools to work with these days because of all the "social" media.  This is something
that Planning is supposed to be working (or intel / PIO) and is covered fairly comprehensively in the AFRCC BISC and SMC classes.

A pilot may have posted on Facebook, or a site like "MyTransponder" that he's deviating because he sees a cloud / restaurant/ the largest tinfoil ball (they use their phones from the air all the time, regs and law be darned), or he may have tools and apps that automatically check into Four Square or the like.  Etc., etc.

His demeanor when he left, whether he is working, is a high-time VFR with marginal IFR skills (these guys get in the soup all the time) - whether
there is something "shiny" enroute that might cause an unreported deviation that then gets him in fuel trouble (maybe his passenger wants to
see the mountains).

Profiling, flight plans, ATC check ins, and NTAP are all we have to work with until there is an ELT to locate, and contrary to the assertions people want to make about technology, many times it fails, and the ELT will never activate or never be heard.  Most searches are for overdue / missing pilots,
not a "crash" per se, and thankfully the majority are resolved with a ramp check, or other less "spectacular" results, and those investigations
are all about getting into the pilots head.

The BISC, for example, starts with a overflight ELT notice from commercial cross-country altitude.  Doing the math on the reception distance gives you
a POD area a large as half a state, while the DF-ability of an ELT is only a few miles - you have to take that, plus the profile, and make an educated,
flexible guess as to where to best deploy your resources.

Those planning exercises tabletops, when done right, are a lot of fun, and highly effective in training PSC's and other search managers.  It moves
the from the discipline from the typical brute-force procedures that most small missions use, to the mathematical / science realm of the physics of flight,
radio signal propagation, weather and related.


"That Others May Zoom"