You know, IF CAP ever decided to create a "Gold Medal of Valor" at some future date, I would propose that we just have the AF award the Air Force Soldier's Medal to the member. If one of our members performed an act of extraordinary valor to the point of it being "gallant" above and beyond the call of duty for a SMOV, this would be entirely appropriate in my book.

Here is a link to the AFSM: http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=7769
And where it stands in the official Order of Precedence: http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/library/awards/index.asp

Quote from: lordmonar on April 02, 2010, 11:20:40 PM
There you go comparing CAP with the real military.

If you read the regs closely you will find that we already use the Bronze V on our Disaster Service ribbon for assistance during a presidential declared disaster.

So....out goes that argument.

There is nothing really wrong with the way we do things now.

There YOU go again - I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the way we do things now - sheesh. What is it with people here, can't we just discuss something without trying to poke the other guys eyes out. This is an informal discussion board, not a "don't dare question the establishment" board.

The unofficial gold over silver was best described in this NCO Academy description:

"From 1872 the majors received oak leaves in gold to distinguish them from the silver of lieutenant colonels and the bars of both captains and lieutenants became silver. In a similar fashion, 1917 saw the introduction of a single gold bar for second lieutenants. These changes created the curious situation (in terms of heraldic tradition) of silver outranking gold. One after-the-fact explanation suggested by some NCOs is that the more-malleable gold suggests that the bearer is being "molded" for his or her responsibilities -- as a field officer (second lieutenant) or staff officer (major). However, this explanation may be more clever than correct, for while the insignia for second lieutenant and major are gold colored they are actually made of brass (except that the gold bars used to "pin on" a Second Lieutenant at the US Military Academy are, by tradition, 14kt gold), and brass is a base metal while silver is a precious metal. The rank order thus does not actually conflict with heraldic tradition."

That said, can we drop the "V" device. We're supposed to be non-combat now. You know, I have a Commendation Medal for non-combat valor at a plane crash. The citation says it all. I don't need a "V" on the ribbon to show what I did. Why do we need another device on our ribbons when it would only cause confusion? Besides, I kind of agree with some of the other posts, HWSRN would be the first one for gold...paper cuts and all.

Quote from: flyboy1 on April 03, 2010, 12:22:47 AM
That said, can we drop the "V" device. We're supposed to be non-combat now. You know, I have a Commendation Medal for non-combat valor at a plane crash. The citation says it all. I don't need a "V" on the ribbon to show what I did. Why do we need another device on our ribbons when it would only cause confusion?

How would you get a "V" device on anything related to a plane crash?

The only place CAP wears one is on the DR ribbon for POTUS-declared disasters.

Say what you want about the V being inappropriate, but it serves to change the ribbon and has a specific meaning.  What we should do is ditch the ribbon for taking ARC training and just leave it for real DR missions.

Quote from: heliodoc on April 02, 2010, 04:37:49 AM
^^^

Yes sir ...the good old daze of CAP

Before CAP had a CAP Risk Management, ORM and Safety program....

Nowadays one may have to stand by the sidelines and not pull anyone out of a wreck or any other service just to please the corporation

The real action will be those  who do the right thing, render the service, and move out smartly

The still will be gutsy stuff in CAP, just clear the area and don't answer anyone's questions

I will say this...all that be DARNED!!!  If CAP wants to throw me out because I went in to a danger to save a life...be it the life of a friend or the life of a stanger...then so be it.  How could anyone hesitate in the line of duty for a reason as a result of fear of reprisals.

To think that a cadet, fellow CAP Officer or anyone in under the blue sky would be left to burn alive or suffer because of something that...makes me cringe.

I am recalling that ones newstory earlier this year where some security guards let a girl be beaten and merely watched for the want of company policies.

Quote from: NewbieOnTheLoose on April 02, 2010, 11:24:14 PM
You know, IF CAP ever decided to create a "Gold Medal of Valor" at some future date, I would propose that we just have the AF award the Air Force Soldier's Medal to the member. If one of our members performed an act of extraordinary valor to the point of it being "gallant" above and beyond the call of duty for a SMOV, this would be entirely appropriate in my book.

What the heck is an "Air Force Soldier's Medal"?  There is no such animal. But there is an Airman's Medal...

Quote from: PHall on April 03, 2010, 02:15:22 AM

Quote from: NewbieOnTheLoose on April 02, 2010, 11:24:14 PM
You know, IF CAP ever decided to create a "Gold Medal of Valor" at some future date, I would propose that we just have the AF award the Air Force Soldier's Medal to the member. If one of our members performed an act of extraordinary valor to the point of it being "gallant" above and beyond the call of duty for a SMOV, this would be entirely appropriate in my book.

What the heck is an "Air Force Soldier's Medal"?  There is no such animal. But there is an Airman's Medal...

Correct. There are actually four: The Soldier's Medal, the Airman's Medal, the Coast Guard Medal and the Navy and Marine Corps Medal...all basically for distinguishing themselves by heroic actions, usually at the voluntary risk of life, but not involving actual combat. Some notable recipients include President John F. Kennedy (Navy); Duane Hackney and William Pitsenbarger (Air Force); Gen. Colin Powell (Army); and Edgar Culbertson (posthumously, Coast Guard). Some of these medals (not the recipients) pre-date World War II.

A Commendation Medal is then awarded for courage or non-combat herorisim when the action does not warrant the award of the former. My citation says "courage and extraordinary professionalism."

Might be a great idea, though.

Why the heck would we ever create a gold medal of valor?  So what do we do then?  All of the CAP SMoV recipients would now have CAP's #2 medal?  Or would all SMoVs be upgraded to the GMoV?  Nor do we need to be putting in for the Airmans Medal. 

If a civilian volunteer for the Sheriff's SAR does something, they get recognition from the department and the county, but they don't get the Sheriff's Medal of Valor.  Only sworn Deputies and Correctional Officers are eligible for that.  That's how I equate CAP.  If you want the Airmans Medal or Navy Marine Corps Medal, then you had better be serving in one of those branches.  Otherwise, leave their stuff alone.    If your not in the Air Force, why would you want the Airmans Medal?  I personally would rather have the highest decoration for the organization that I am actually a member of.  And please don't tell me your an Air Force member on an AFAM

I think we have plenty of medals to recognize members and their actions. We in CAP know that the Silver MoV is our top medal.  Lets leave it alone.  I don't see CAP awarding non-CAP members medals.  Some of you would become violently ill if that ever happened.  I recall a CAP member telling Mary Feik she needed to take the Feik ribbon of her jacket because she hadnt actually earned it.  Remember that one!?
Heck, based on many discussions, I'm not even eligible for CAP medals when I'm working as a Sheriff because I am being paid.  Although I earned the Departments Medal of Valor and Lifesaving medal while on duty, some felt that because I get a paycheck at the end of the month, Im not eligible for CAP recognition also.  Even though military members are being paid correct?  I like the justifications some CAP members use to keep the pool small.
Even though nowhere in my job description does it say I am required to risk my life.  Why then are we asking the military to award CAP members military medals?

^^^Pig:
Too much common sense for one post.  Why do some of our members covet other organizations' awards? If the SMOV is our highest award, then it's our highest award.  End of story. 

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 23, 2010, 04:04:02 PMIf you want the Airmans Medal or Navy Marine Corps Medal, then you had better be serving in one of those branches.  Otherwise, leave their stuff alone.    If your not in the Air Force, why would you want the Airmans Medal?  I personally would rather have the highest decoration for the organization that I am actually a member of.  And please don't tell me your an Air Force member on an AFAM

I think we have plenty of medals to recognize members and their actions. We in CAP know that the Silver MoV is our top medal.  Lets leave it alone.  I don't see CAP awarding non-CAP members medals. 

The difference is that there are existing authorizations that could be used to give certain military awards to CAP members while there are no such similar procedures for CAP awards to be given to someone else. 

Oh right.  Existing authorizations.  I guess it would be a huge deal for CAP to award a CAP medal to a "civilian".  You know, someone would have to order the medal from Vanguard and print out a certificate......

This is the perfect example of a solution looking for a problem. Leave it alone because it isn't broken and doesn't need fixing.

As for AF awards/decs for CAP, give me a break. None have been awarded in over 60 yrs so that should give you some idea of how that would go over. The AF isn't about to give one of their awards/decs to someone in CAP. The AF has made it very clear that they want CAP to be as distinct and separate as possible.

Nevertheless, they can give some military awards to civilians.

Which ones? When was the last time?  Thats the point, it may be on the books but nobody does it anymore.  And in the rare cases that they do, its usually a civilian working directly for the military.  However, civilians working for the military even in combat zones dont rate military medals.

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 23, 2010, 07:21:54 PM
Which ones?

There are other threads that discuss that.  Don't want to derail this one too badly.

Quote from: RiverAux on April 23, 2010, 08:15:32 PM
There are other threads that discuss that.  Don't want to derail this one too badly.

Too late. 

What has been seen cannot be unseen.

Can a Mod lock this thread. It now has been hijacked and has nothing to do with History, belongs under Uniforms

The reason I do not know, but having decorations on the award shows that you went further then others. Isn't it true that 5 honorable actions get you the decoration?

If there is a Gold Medal of Valor, or Honor, it would be just below silver. I don't know the exact reason, but, Lt. Col is silver and is higher than Major, which is gold.

Posts merged. MIKE

Quote from: CCAlex on May 15, 2010, 05:40:12 PM
The reason I do not know, but having decorations on the award shows that you went further then others. Isn't it true that 5 honorable actions get you the decoration?

I am not sure what your question is?