CAP's National Commander Amy S. Courter received Gill Robb Wilson Award #1961 in year 2000. Is there a national numbered listing somewhere of all Gill Robb Wilson award recipients similar to the one for all Carl A. Spaatz award recipients? Also, is anyone aware of a Gill Robb Wilson Association similar to the Spaatz Association?
It just seems to me that there should be something available on the web denoting those senior officers who have achieved Civil Air Patrol's highest professional development award... that being the Gill Robb Wilson Award.
Dr. Kukucha,
There is no central list of GRW Award winners. We put together a list of California Wing members who have earned the GRW Award, and have created a large plaque with all members to display at Wing HQ. It took a couple of years of off-and-on effort to compile the list. Jennifer Carroll (NHQ/PDR) was kind enough to query CAP Watch, but of course that did not capture former members or deceased members. We finally had someone physically go thru each issue of CAP Times/News since 1974 to pull out names from the awards page. A bit of old-fashioned historical research, but we think we have a fairly accurate list of names for California Wing.
Over the years, the topic of a GRW Association has come up again and again, most recently in CAP Talk at http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=9213.0
See http://grwilson.ning.com/ for a very new (3-4 weeks old) discussion board of GRW winners.
GRW #404
Quote from: AdAstra on November 12, 2009, 07:52:14 PM
Over the years, the topic of a GRW Association has come up again and again, most recently in CAP Talk at http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=9213.0
Well, I don't know how I missed this recent thread but I did... prior to posting, I had googled Gill Robb Wilson a number of different ways.
Anyways, I'm being redundant, but an effort should be made to produce as complete as a listing as possible to highlight those who have achieved this award... and the sooner, the better... lest we may never know many of the early recipients.
Was 1964 the first year that the Gill Robb Wilson award was awarded to CAP senior officers?
Quote from: ascorbate on November 12, 2009, 08:02:38 PM
Anyways, I'm being redundant, but an effort should be made to produce as complete as a listing as possible to highlight those who have achieved this award... and the sooner, the better lest we may never know many of the early recipients.
Why?
Unlike the Spaatz award, the Wilson basically comes with just being a fully-engaged member. For a cadet, Spaatz generally denotes a significant and specific effort, and for a lot of cadets, both the pinnacle and end of their cadet days.
That's not the case for Wilson.
Its a commendable achievement, but not all that earth-shattering in the grand scheme.
Reportedly, only 0.05% of CAP cadets ever earn the Spaatz award.
What percentage of senior officers earn the Wilson Award considering that 80% of senior officers reportedly never make it past Level II?
I believe the Wilson Award to be both a commendable and *noteworthy* achievement... and something I hope to earn myself one day!
Quote from: Eclipse on November 12, 2009, 08:08:05 PM
Why?
I dunno, maybe because the organization has named it to be our highest professional development award?
I'm also really confused by your "fully-engaged member" comment. It doesn't just "happen" by showing up. Last I checked it took me 6 years of my life at probably 25hrs/wk running numerous units' cadet programs, attending PD courses, teaching and directing at them, mentoring junior officers, etc to earn mine.
+ 1
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 12, 2009, 08:16:18 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 12, 2009, 08:08:05 PM
Why?
I dunno, maybe because the organization has named it to be our highest professional development award?
I'm also really confused by your "fully-engaged member" comment. It doesn't just "happen" by showing up. Last I checked it took me 6 years of my life at probably 25hrs/wk running numerous units' cadet programs, attending PD courses, teaching and directing at them, mentoring junior officers, etc to earn mine.
Yes, and mine will take about 11, but unlike Spaatz, its doesn't take directed effort to achieve it.
What you indicate above is what we're all supposed to be doing as a matter of course as members - serving in staff positions, progressing in our own development, completing specialties so we understand our jobs, attending conferences, etc.
Even RSC and NSC, really the only activities that take an "extra effort" are just part of the natural progression of a fully-engaged member (vs. say a pilot, etc., who simply wants to be operational with no
interest in staff, etc.).
Spaatz is remarkable because the clock is ticking and its takes a pretty significant, and specific, effort to achieve it. Most cadets have 5-7 years or so and that's it.
Wilson can be nibbled on for 40-50+ years at the member's pace.
Here's what the Wilson requires at the most basic level:
Level 1
Yeager
ECI 13 (etc.)
Master rating in "something"
SLS/CLC/TLC(for CPO)
Staff at a PD conference
Two conferences as attendee and one as staff
RSC/NSC
With command or staff assignments along the way.
The average member has 20+ years to achieve the above (2/3rd's of which are usually completed in the first 5).
Again, I'm not saying its not commendable, and certainly indicates a high-level of full-program engagement and participation. If someone wants to create a resource with all the numbers, have at it.
Yeah, you're right. We should probably just do away with it anyway, seeing as it doesn't mean anything.
In fact, I don't even know why all of us continue to do any PD, since the program requires so little effort, that anyone that just shows up will earn them...
Heck, maybe they'll just e-mail me my certificate... ::)
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 12, 2009, 08:47:08 PM
Yeah, you're right. We should probably just do away with it anyway, seeing as it doesn't mean anything.
...the program requires so little effort, that anyone that just shows up will earn them...
If you believe that is what I said, you are reading it through a filter.
We get a cert and a ribbon, and its supposed to be presented by a VIP, what more do you want?
People are trying to equate this with Spaatz, and its not the same level or kind of achievement.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 12, 2009, 08:50:58 PM
People are trying to equate this with Spaatz, and its not the same level or kind of achievement.
The only "equating" I see is that both the Spaatz and the Wilson Award are the highest achievable awards within the CAP cadet and senior programs, respectively. After that, all comparisons should cease!
Again, what percentage of senior officers go on to earn the Gill Robb Wilson Award?
QuoteIf you believe that is what I said, you are reading it through a filter.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 12, 2009, 08:08:05 PM
Unlike the Spaatz award, the Wilson basically comes with just being a fully-engaged member. Quote
QuoteFor a cadet, Spaatz generally denotes a significant and specific effort...that's not the case for Wilson.
Quote...it doesn't take directed effort to achieve it.
QuoteWhat you indicate above is what we're all supposed to be doing as a matter of course as members - serving in staff positions, progressing in our own development, completing specialties so we understand our jobs, attending conferences, etc.
Even RSC and NSC, really the only activities that take an "extra effort" are just part of the natural progression of a fully-engaged member (vs. say a pilot, etc., who simply wants to be operational with no interest in staff, etc.).
I must be missing something...
According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Loening_Award
"Of CAP's 35,000 senior members, only about 350 [~1%] earn the Grover Loening Award [Level III] each year."
Then, according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_E._Garber_Award
"Of CAP's 35,000 senior members, less than 200 [< 1%] earn the Paul E. Garber Award [Level IV] annually."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gill_Robb_Wilson_Award makes no mention of numbers, but it would appear based upon the above trends that less than 1% of CAP senior officers earn the prestigious Gill Robb Wilson Award annually... that's a very elite and noteworthy group IMO.
The other stuff above aside, those numbers are useless. I dispute both the totals and the percentage.
I find it very difficult to believe that less than 10 people per wing receive a Loening annually.
First, LIII is not that big a deal in my parts, IV and V, yes more unusual
But you can't take the whole of the senior membership and then apply an annual completion percentage
against something you can only receive once. All 35,000 members are not annually eligible for all 5 awards.
There's also patrons and sponsors in there who are ineligible.
A meaningful number would be the % of membership that ever receives the awards.
As an FYI, a quick check in my group shows that about:
15% of those in my group have completed Level III,
7% have achieved Level IV
3% have LV
however even these numbers are not of much use because while it only factored in active seniors, it includes a number of newer members who aren't even eligible yet.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 12, 2009, 10:07:56 PM
The other stuff above aside, those numbers are useless. I dispute both the totals and the percentage.
I find it very difficult to believe that less than 10 people per wing receive a Loening annually.
First, LIII is not that big a deal in my parts, IV and V, yes more unusual
But you can't take the whole of the senior membership and then apply an annual completion percentage
against something you can only receive once. All 35,000 members are not annually eligible for all 5 awards.
There's also patrons and sponsors in there who are ineligible.
A meaningful number would be the % of membership that ever receives the awards.
As an FYI, a quick check in my group shows that about:
15% of those in my group have completed Level III,
7% have achieved Level IV
3% have LV
however even these numbers are not of much use because while it only factored in active seniors, it includes a number of newer members who aren't even eligible yet.
And when you say -1% of cadets earn the Spaatz, don't you include all cadets even those who have just enrolled??
The numbers seem about right to me. In October there were only 35 GLs, 22 Garbers, and 7 GLWs. These seem about typical of most months I've looked at. Spread that out over 12 months and 52 wings and the totals are not great.
The percentage of current membership that has the award is actually an inflated number since it doesn't include all the former members who left before earning that award. Probably the best measure of how rare the award would be is the % of seniors who join CAP that ever earn the award over their CAP career (no matter how long or short it is). Probably impossible to figure out given CAP's personnel system.
If you want to calculate a "true" percentage of GRW recipients over the years you would have to..............
2009 Total Members for year / GRW Recipients = Percentage
2008 Total Members for year / GRW Recipients = Percentage
2007 Total Members for year / GRW Recipients = Percentage
etc
etc
This would be the best way to truly calculate the percentage. Add all of them and then divide to get the average over a period of time. The same would hold true for the Spaatz, SMV, BMV and realistically any one in the system.
Quote from: Cecil DP on November 13, 2009, 03:00:13 AM
And when you say -1% of cadets earn the Spaatz, don't you include all cadets even those who have just enrolled??
It's actually statistically based.
Something like 27% of cadets make it to C/SSgt (Wright Award)
Something like 15% of cadets make it to C/2d Lt (Mitchell Award)
Something like 5% of cadets make it to C/Capt (Earhart Award)
Something like 2% of cadets make it to C/LtCol (Eaker Award)
Something like .5% of cadets make it to C/Col (Spaatz Award)
That means that our of 100 cadets, only 27 make it to C/SSgt, of those 12 quit before making their mitchell, another 10 before their earhart, 3 before the Eaker, few get to the spaatz, 1 in 200.
The info sheet on the Eaker Award says that around 200 cadets receive the award annually. That means that around 50 get the Spaatz award, and if you look at roughly 1800 awards so far over 45 years (Avg of 40 per year) that is spot on.
But this isn't based on cadets at a certain point, rather how many cadets hit each milestone statistically out of all the available cadet members who joined in a similar time frame.
Much easier to calculate that sort of thing for cadets since their careers are much shorter and you wouldn't have to go back very far to gather the data. However, when you've got some CAP seniors that have been in for decades it gets much harder to do.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 13, 2009, 01:29:42 PM
Much easier to calculate that sort of thing for cadets since their careers are much shorter and you wouldn't have to go back very far to gather the data. However, when you've got some CAP seniors that have been in for decades it gets much harder to do.
Agreed, and when it comes to comparing the awards, really is an apples to oranges comparison.
As a cadet, you are expected to grow a lot in a maximum of about 8 years (I'd say 5 on average).
Most of the stuff, TIG, leadership tests, AE tests, etc is no different from a lot of senior requirements for PD. But the PT, I think is the real tough part for the Spaatz.
This sounds like a good project for a PAO or Historian. I am doing similar for the SMV and BMV. They should all eventually be put on line for members to see.
I can't believe that PD doesn't have that information, because they are the one's who are responsible for processing and assigning the numbers.
There's a lot of information stored in olde paper records somewhere at NHQ. According to phone calls I've made concerning my olde information, and that of others in my unit, NHQ has neither the personnel, nor the time to do research themselves, and apparently not trust in outsiders to accomplish this.
I would certainly be willing to spend a couple of weeks at Maxwell digging out information, but it would be a drop in the bucket.
Quote from: Cecil DP on November 14, 2009, 01:55:10 AM
I can't believe that PD doesn't have that information, because they are the one's who are responsible for processing and assigning the numbers.
It does seem amazing that CAP NHQ doesn't have a running list somewhere!
Even more incredible is that apparently there are old paper records that are sitting around somewhere deteriorating... doesn' t make a lot of sense!
Why not allow a group of dedicated CAP volunteers to peruse this stuff while it still can be sifted thru?
In NER currently there are about 220 GRW awardees of about 4000 non-cadet members, or 5.5% of senior members have earned the GRW award.
Dan
I read in a thread by AlphaSigOU http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14389.msg259839#msg259839 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14389.msg259839#msg259839) that his Wilson award was numbered 2901.
AlphaSigOU thread started in Dec 2011. I have read in the awards section on the National Headquarter site that there has some Wilsons awarded since then.
I was wondering what number is CAP currently at?
Since every GRW member has their number listed under their Senior Training Record in E-services. It would seem plausible that at least the current members and their numbers can be ascertained.
Received my GRW on 13 March 2012 #2931.
One problem. There were two different numbering systems. My first GRW was # 104. Then they chaged the requirements for the GRW and I "re-earned" it with the number 19. When I spoke to NHQ several years ago, they told me there were five members that earned the GRW undr BOTH systems. So for example there may be two different people holding GRW # 50.