Fall 2009 NEC Agenda posted

[Al Sayre]

Regarding the "What is the NEC thinking" type statements regarding social media, remember that just because someone proposed that the item be put on the agenda, doesn't mean that the NEC as a whole supports it.  I remember the cheers that erupted in the room after the NB voted down the proposal to allow shorts in CAP planes.

And I remember the cheers that erupted when we got the letter form the National Commander that said we could!  It was about 110 degrees and 80% humidity in Mississippi that fateful day...

[Lancer]

Just in case some of you missed the e-mail from NHQ...

Dear CAP Member,

I would like to encourage you to watch the 2009 November NEC meeting streamed out live over the internet from St. Louis, Missouri.  The live web stream will be on Friday, November 6, from 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 PM CDT.  Please visit the CAP Channel website in order to watch the stream.

http://www.capchannel.com - Just in case you didn't know how to get there. ;-)

[RiverAux]

According to briefing -- SAR down 24%, Air Defense up 24%, HLS +24%
total CAP cadets flown on o-rides up 21%

[RiverAux]

Changed item 3 from "Fire Watch Ribbon" to "Air Patrol Ribbon" - 10 sorties min.  Seems to be for any sort of mission (excluding SAR and CD).   

-- referred to historian and uniform team for review and re-presentation at winter NB.

Sidebar -- the leadership have been trying to keep uniform stuff to winter NB, but want to be "agile" to allow stuff to come up from the field.   

[Lancer]

How do we get more cadets into the glider program?


Ummm.....BUY MORE GLIDERS! 55 gliders nationwide is not enough!

We have one glider in Michigan and the politics around it, and where it is in the state is ridiculous. We could easily use at least two more gliders. I'd be happy with one more.

[RiverAux]

Glider Program Review agenda item:
-- glider program isn't taking away pilots from doing powered o-rides. 
-- Have 52 gliders.
144 glider pilots (89 CFIGs)
--588 members who have a glider rating
-6618 sorties in 2009 (more or less stable between 5-8k)
11% of cadet o-rides were in gliders
13 locations have done 75% of glider sorties
IL does the most glider sorties
-consider consolidating glider resources at the most active sites rather than having spread around.  Possibly downside glider fleet to 33-36 and use savings for better maintenance on remaining.  Store the extras.  Possibly use them in the future.  Regional centers would need to be very supportive of the glider centers.
-Revise cadet sylabus that implies all cadets will get 5 glider o-rides

[RiverAux]

How do we get more cadets into the glider program?


Ummm.....BUY MORE GLIDERS! 55 gliders nationwide is not enough!

We have one glider in Michigan and the politics around it, and where it is in the state is ridiculous. We could easily use at least two more gliders. I'd be happy with one more.

Apparently the problem is that most of the gliders we have now are being very underutilized. 

[Lancer]

Apparently the problem is that most of the gliders we have now are being very underutilized.

So either move them to the wings who can use them, or enforce the use of them, under-utilization is inexcusable in my mind.

These 'glider centers' will not work...not on a regular basis. My cadets have had the opportunity to travel 2 hours to go fly in the glider; or at least 'hopefully' fly in the glider, and they don't want to be bothered. This is the wrong direction, IMHO.

[SarDragon]

There was also mention of the number of glider pilots available. The goal is 5/glider. Given the numbers, the proposed fleet of 33 - 36 fits the current number of pilots.

[NEBoom]

Lost the stream, then couldn't get back in.  Keep the updates coming for the less fortunate!! 

[Cecil DP]

How do we get more cadets into the glider program?


Ummm.....BUY MORE GLIDERS! 55 gliders nationwide is not enough!

We have one glider in Michigan and the politics around it, and where it is in the state is ridiculous. We could easily use at least two more gliders. I'd be happy with one more.

Apparently the problem is that most of the gliders we have now are being very underutilized.

Our problem is having the glider and not being able to get the pilots and tow plane at the same time.

[RiverAux]

Done for the day.  Same interruption for me- hit refresh and it came back.

I wasn't paying close attention, but had the glider discussion playing the background (they just finished it).  But, I was happy to see the way they really dug into the nuts and bolts of this topic, which judging by my previous viewing sessions of national meetings is not the norm.  If they spent a week at each meeting going into this level of detail about all aspects of the program, I think it might do some good. 

[jimmydeanno]

We have 1 glider that is shared between multiple wings.  So, we have glider ops every weekend between April and October.

My unit was scheduled for a full day on three Saturdays.  We are supposed to bring no more than 8 cadets with us, so they all get to go.

Here's the kicker.

Every single one of our opportunities were rained out this year.
It is a 3 hour drive to the glider location.

My cadets love flying in the glider, but it's just too far and so spread out in amount of opportunities.

[Lancer]

They went into recess for the rest of the day after the Glider Operations agenda item.

So...money seems to be the crux of the issue with our glider operations. Can someone explain why? Is there a reason why we are not financing this the way it should be? Is this due to the AF's lack of emphasis on this being an important program for CAP? If the AF doesn't want to fund it, why aren't we looking to solicit funds from other sources to enhance the program?

[heliodoc]

^^^
Like that idea

Call the Soaring Society of America (SSA) and see how CAP could partner with them

Can't blame the AF for not wantin to fund..ya think they got other priorities for themselves or CAP

Whadddya suppose Surrogate Predator costs to set up and function?  Don't tell me how cheap CAP is for that mission...someone still has to be Mission Directorate for that mission and somebody has to get funding to operate that side of the house

Partner with SSA and CAP ...see what happens...no use in AF funding something that shows duplication when CAP can partner with an organization that centers and quite possibly has ,more insight to gliding and maybe less online testing to be a wing runner.  I am sure SSA has a GREAT training program for gliders that rivals CAP

[davidsinn]

They went into recess for the rest of the day after the Glider Operations agenda item.

So...money seems to be the crux of the issue with our glider operations. Can someone explain why? Is there a reason why we are not financing this the way it should be? Is this due to the AF's lack of emphasis on this being an important program for CAP? If the AF doesn't want to fund it, why aren't we looking to solicit funds from other sources to enhance the program?

Why can't we take the glider to the cadets like we do with powered O-Rides? Yea I realize a glider in Chicago is a supremely bad idea but you could get it closer to the people. I know INWG aero towed up to Oskosh last year. Why not aerotow across the state and do a group O-Ride day instead of a bunch of different units converging on the glider?

[Lancer]

^^^
Like that idea

Call the Soaring Society of America (SSA) and see how CAP could partner with them

Can't blame the AF for not wantin to fund..ya think they got other priorities for themselves or CAP

Whadddya suppose Surrogate Predator costs to set up and function?  Don't tell me how cheap CAP is for that mission...someone still has to be Mission Directorate for that mission and somebody has to get funding to operate that side of the house

Partner with SSA and CAP ...see what happens...no use in AF funding something that shows duplication when CAP can partner with an organization that centers and quite possibly has ,more insight to gliding and maybe less online testing to be a wing runner.  I am sure SSA has a GREAT training program for gliders that rivals CAP

I was going to mention that, but I wanted to see if someone else would bring it up. Thanks for not letting me down.

Here's my issue. Aren't we suppose to be fostering a love and interest in aviation amongst our cadets? We're not going to be able to do that if we reduce and consolidate our glider ops.

With our wing only having one glider, and as far as I know only one functioning tow plane, getting our cadets up in it is no easy feat. We don't have very many glider pilots either. I've only know one person in the wing to fly our glider, Capt Mark Grant (great guy, BTW). The most our glider is used during each year is at our annual encampment, where (weather permitting) each basic cadet get's a flight in the glider, as well as a powered flight. Any other time, glider flights are pretty much last minute because of weather. The two times in this past year when we tried to plan well in advance of a glider fly day, we had to scrub because of weather.

My 12 year old daughter got her first glider flight at encampment this year. she LOVED it...and enjoyed it much more than the powered rides she's had preceding her glider flight. I'm sure that's the case for many a cadet. Heck, my son, has gotten his Mitchell Award before he's had a chance to get a glider flight. Something is just not right about that.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's not happy with the direction they are looking to take this program.

As an aside, here's some recent video of the Michigan Wing glider in action.  http://vimeo.com/7141749

[FW]

^^^
Like that idea

Call the Soaring Society of America (SSA) and see how CAP could partner with them

Can't blame the AF for not wantin to fund..ya think they got other priorities for themselves or CAP

Whadddya suppose Surrogate Predator costs to set up and function?  Don't tell me how cheap CAP is for that mission...someone still has to be Mission Directorate for that mission and somebody has to get funding to operate that side of the house

Partner with SSA and CAP ...see what happens...no use in AF funding something that shows duplication when CAP can partner with an organization that centers and quite possibly has ,more insight to gliding and maybe less online testing to be a wing runner.  I am sure SSA has a GREAT training program for gliders that rivals CAP

We do partner with SSA.  They have been instrumental in getting us organized.  Both Col. Guimond and Lt. Col Crielly are members.  They have provided for SSA training at quite a few sites around the country and, many SSA instructors and pilots have provided their time and equipment; both tow planes, winches and gliders for CAP.  The problem is with the great reduction in the FY 2010 grant to CAP (almost $5 million).  I have a feeling this will not be the best of years for cash on hand.

[heliodoc]

^^
I stand corrected

But coming from an unemployment situation.......CAP will just have to be like "us unemployed" and face up to the realization it going to be tough all over and priorities will have to be set.  CAP will just have to tighten its belt and start eatin hamburger and no more Porterhouse steaks ( approx $5 million) and adjust

CAP has spent enough elsewhere like a drunkard on some other operations...so it sounds like SSA will sound like a gold mine....

Sorry about that.........

[RiverAux]

One of the reasons they're considering it is that they've got a bunch of old gilders that have a ton of hours on them.  Take them out of commission and move the good gliders to the spots where they are being used all the time makes sense to me. 

If 13 squadrons were doing 75% of the powered flying in CAP, don't you think it would make sense to look at whether we need planes all the over the place?