2009 CAP Homeland Security study bill

Started by RiverAux, March 06, 2009, 05:02:36 PM

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RiverAux

The bill requiring that a study be done by the Comptroller General of the US on how CAP can be utilized for homeland security work was reintroduced in this session of Congress as HR 1178 on Feb. 25. There are 9 co-sponsors. 

Like last time it has been sent to the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure in the Aviation subcommittee and the House Homeland Security Committee subcommittee on emergency communications, preparedness, and response. 
Quote
A BILL
To direct the Comptroller General of the United States to conduct a study on the use of Civil Air Patrol personnel and resources to support homeland security missions, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. CIVIL AIR PATROL STUDY.

(a) Study- The Comptroller General of the United States shall conduct a study of the functions and capabilities of the Civil Air Patrol to support the homeland security missions of State, local, and tribal governments and the Department of Homeland Security. In conducting the study, the Comptroller General shall review the process by which the Civil Air Patrol may provide assistance to the Secretary of Homeland Security, other Federal agencies, and States to support homeland security missions by--

(1) providing aerial reconnaissance or communications capabilities for border security;

(2) providing capabilities for collective response to an act of terrorism, natural disaster, or other man-made event, by assisting in damage assessment and situational awareness, conducting search and rescue operations, assisting in evacuations, transporting time-sensitive medical or other materials;

(3) providing assistance in the exercise and training of departmental resources responsible for the intercept of aviation threats to designated restricted areas; or

(4) such other activities as may be determined appropriate by the Comptroller General in the conduct of this review.

(b) Report- Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Comptroller General shall submit to the Committees on Homeland Security and Transportation and Infrastructure of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs of the Senate a report containing the findings of the review conducted under subsection (a). The report shall include--

(1) an assessment of the feasibility and cost-effectiveness of using Civil Air Patrol assets for the purposes described in subsection (a); and

(2) an assessment as to whether the current mechanisms for Federal agencies and States to request support from the Civil Air Patrol are sufficient or whether new agreements between relevant Federal agencies and the Civil Air Patrol are necessary.

(c) Report to Congress- Not later than 90 days after completing the study under this section, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall review and analyze the study and submit to the Committees on Homeland Security and Transportation and Infrastructure of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs of the Senate a report on such review and analysis, which shall include any recommendations of the Secretary for further action that could affect the organization and administration of the Department of Homeland Security.

Gunner C

Holding breath . . . turning purple.  ;D

This would be good if the info retrieved in the study were acted upon - but there's nothing that I saw that required Sec HLS to act on it.  If there's nothing in it for the congress critters behind it, then nothing will happen.

heliodoc

#2
IF it did get acted upon, there would be a whole"lotta" expectations to be expected than just our advertised missions.

CAP woul need to comply with more than just what they are tasked with, expectations to attend a myriad of emergency management drills, which are done already, but with an expectation(s) of REAL AAR's, reports, real established syllabi for training

EXPECT new requirements.. if you folks did not like the IS 100, 200, 300, 400, 700, 800 series of expectations..... you may not like the future expectations of us (CAP) and how it relates to MORE than  SAREX's, ARCHER, and other current missions

I am not holding my breath either.... if this does pick up traction...expect MORE  training issues, documentation, etc

Just because we advertise what we can do....  there are others in the US Govt that may require more than what we currently deliver and that may even require more attention to money and grants that CAP NHQ may need to be on top of.  That would also require more just AF audits, it could open more Federal fiscal audits

Get ready, like I said, if folks did not like the DHS reqs.....they may not like future requirements and that could happen after a study.

If Wings and NHQ are not up on their respective MOU's and MOA's and are not current.... that in itself could pose issues....there is a WHOLE "LOTTA" that CAP needs to be on top of already before they even start playing or assuming bigger roles

Just some food for thought...................

Gunner C

100% correct!  There's way too many in CAP who can't/won't cut the mustard when it comes to REAL training/REAL standards.

RiverAux

Obviously the program is useless since as it is we only save a 75-100 people a year.  May as well shut it down. 


Flying Pig

#5
Quote from: RiverAux on March 06, 2009, 09:07:25 PM
Obviously the program is useless since as it is we only save a 75-100 people a year.  May as well shut it down. 



Really? SAVE 75-100 people per year?  Lets not use the word SAVE like the media uses the word HERO.

RiverAux

Well, the Air Force gives us the credit for saves.  You don't like it, go talk to them. 

heliodoc

Nobody here said shut the program down

If Comptroller General and or GAO is going to do a study, then CAP is going to have to demonstrate a little more prowess than online tests and chirping about 39-1 standards, which this organization, STILL has problems with.

I know I am rusty on some  of the GT standards and building my way back to 'em, and I do know that there are NUMEROUS training disconnnects in CAP that if we were to be anywhere near FIRST RESPONDER standards, then we have to have a BETTER training system.  If that requires Natuional PAYING somone or a contact team to TEACH and not JUST SET online mentality....then hopefully that requirement gets established and is put upon the NHQ leadership.

Granted there are National lurkers here on this site... but calling for REAL training standardsis what its going to be all about.  We are fine with our own support missions to other agencies, but we are not going to be the driver or the lead on major disaters, unless CAP is TRAINED for that specific requirement and hopefully CG and or GAO put the question to the Natl leadership and asks them squarely in the eye and see the response for future leadership in disaster mangement

Flying Pig

Being someone who is professionally involved in SAR on an almost daily basis, in this side of the world, "professionally" denotes paid, not suggesting CAP isn't professional.  How many of those saves actually involved SAVING someone?  I would venture to guess very few.  I mean, REALLY saved someone.  I asking us to be honest as an organization.  Not  "Well the Air Force said we did."

I have located people after 2-3 days of intense searching only locate them, and tell them they were lost and to have them inform us  "No Im not, Im right here" pointing to a map.  I dont call that a save.  On the other side, we have located people and actually pulled them from the river, face down in the water.  Id call that a save.  Again, I think the word is abused, and depending on who you talk to it can give the impression you are padding your stats.  CAP provides a valuable service, otherwise I wouldnt have stuck around since 1986, Im just saying if we are going to start talking about raising the bar, be careful what you ask for. 

RiverAux

QuoteI asking us to be honest as an organization.  Not  "Well the Air Force said we did."
No, it is entirely a call of the AFRCC.  CAP has nothing to do with it.  Refer to 60-3.  You may be right about the nature of these saves, but again, its not our call.  Complain to the AF if you think they're not strict enough as CAP doesn't have anything to do with them.

Since my sarcasm evidently went over Flying Pig and helio's head, what I was saying that despite all the defects in our training that they claim, we do get our job done.  If there is a national volunteer organization that does SAR better than us, I'd like to know what it is.  And don't go saying NASAR since they don't actually do missions as NASAR -- they're made up of individuals that belong to many local groups and are not equivalent.

CAP's ground team standards are equivalent to about 95% of what is in the NASAR standards, which is really the only alternative out there.  We leave out the rope work, because we don't do it.  Other than that, our training is just as good if done properly.  You're not going to get me to say that it is always done properly because I know its not, but the standards are just fine except for a few minor things that need tweaking.   


Flying Pig

You know, Ill have to agree with you.  Our standards are great, as long as we train to them.  Maybe thats why I get tense about people wanting to increase, increase, increase.  I sometimes find myself wondering how any of you think youll have the time to have jobs and a family!  And not to mention, how long do you think your motivation will last when countless months can span the time between calls. Like River says, If you can REALLY master and maintain the skill sets already in place, I agree, your actually going to be a pretty solid responder.

I guess I can equate it to the old saying of "We don't need more laws, we just need to enforce the ones we have!"  Would you agree?

Gunner C

Quote from: Flying Pig on March 06, 2009, 11:21:20 PM
Our standards are great, as long as we train to them. 
And that's what I was referring to: in my old wing, if you insisted that members actually train to the actual standard, you'd get shouted down.  There's nothing wrong with our standards, there's something wrong with our organizational culture.  It's the culture that keeps us from achieving our potential as an organization.

ColonelJack

Quote from: RiverAux on March 06, 2009, 09:07:25 PM
Obviously the program is useless since as it is we only save a 75-100 people a year.  May as well shut it down. 

I'm aware you were being facetious/sarcastic, but for those who might mean such a sentiment literally ... it wouldn't be useless if you were one of the 75 - 100 people saved.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

Flying Pig

Quote from: Gunner C on March 07, 2009, 09:09:33 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 06, 2009, 11:21:20 PM
Our standards are great, as long as we train to them. 
And that's what I was referring to: in my old wing, if you insisted that members actually train to the actual standard, you'd get shouted down.  There's nothing wrong with our standards, there's something wrong with our organizational culture.  It's the culture that keeps us from achieving our potential as an organization.

Wow.....I think Im going to frame that and put it up at work!

JayT

#14
Quote from: RiverAux on March 06, 2009, 09:07:25 PM
Obviously the program is useless since as it is we only save a 75-100 people a year.  May as well shut it down.

You seem to have a lot of issues with CAP.

By the way, telling people that you're wicked wit and sarcasm 'went over your head' isn't the best way to play in the sandbox either.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

es_g0d

Gunner --
What do we need to do to promote the right culture?  What IS the right culture?
Good luck and good hunting,
-Scott
www.CAP-ES.net

Flying Pig

I think it just comes down to the individual units making the decision ultimately.  The Group and Wing Commanders place a lot of faith in the units that things are being done right.  Being volunteers ( meaning people have day jobs) Commanders, unlike the military or other agencies cant continually travel to units to see what is going on.  The most we do for that is a Sq. inspection every 4 years.
Yes, CAP is nationwide, but every Squadron definitely has its own personality and interests.

RiverAux

Folks, I thnk we're straying way beyond topic (and I apologize for contributing). 

Smithsonia

#18
We save people everyday. We save people who are forgotten... murder victims. Have you ever looked for bones from a 20 year old homicide... good ground training. Try it. The police appreciate the help.

We save cadets. How many would be taken in by the darkside of teenage angst?

We save the dead. How many memorials and funerals have you attended in uniform to give a final salute.

We save survivors. Ever done a commemoration of a natural disaster or plane wreck. I have, you should too.

Ever saved an old man's mind? I have as we talked over the war, amongst planes he flew, while touring an air museum. I don't need a medal for that. I got paid plenty as he struggled to come up with the name of the warbird -- then when it hit him -- he remembered it all. Yeah, I got my medal for that one and it is shinier than any medal on my jacket. Because this one is in my bones.

If you're waiting for next call out from the Air Force, good for you. In the meantime go save someone. A cadet? A former member? A family? For this work the taxpayers have paid nothing.

I've never saved a real live human. BUT, I've saved plenty of people, memories, and much respect. You should too. We save tax payers and we save ourselves. For in the company of one another we find purpose and duty.

I don't know what a save is... I just know that I do it. I don't need anything more than to do it.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

tarheel gumby

Quote from: Smithsonia on March 07, 2009, 10:11:17 PM
We save people everyday. We save people who are forgotten... murder victims. Have you ever looked for bones from a 20 year old homicide... good ground training. Try it. The police appreciate the help.

We save cadets. How many would be taken in by the darkside of teenage angst?

We save the dead. How many memorials and funerals have you attended in uniform to give a final salute.

We save survivors. Ever done a commemoration of a natural disaster or plane wreck. I have, you should too.

Ever saved an old man's mind? I have as we talked over the war, amongst planes he flew, while touring an air museum. I don't need a medal for that. I got paid plenty as he struggled to come up with the name of the warbird -- then when it hit him -- he remembered it all. Yeah, I got my medal for that one and it is shinier than any medal on my jacket. Because this one is in my bones.

If you're waiting for next call out from the Air Force, good for you. In the meantime go save someone. A cadet? A former member? A family? For this work the taxpayers have paid nothing.

I've never saved a real live human. BUT, I've saved plenty of people, memories, and much respect. You should too.

I don't know what a save is... I just know that I do it. I don't need anything more than to do it.

+ 1
Joseph Myers Maj. CAP
Squadron Historian MER NC 019
Historian MER NC 001
Historian MER 001