Challenge coins

[Eclipse]

Officialy Vanguard is our supplier of coins. Officialy only they can use CAP symbols.

Incorrect.

[Storm Chaser]

Officialy Vanguard is our supplier of coins. Officialy only they can use CAP symbols.

As far as I understand, Vanguard is our official supplier of distinctive CAP uniforms and uniform items. CAPR 900-2, which covers the use of CAP seal, emblem, logo, etc., specifies that the Civil Air Patrol name can be used in items such as coins, mugs, hats, etc. The 'new' CAP logo can also be used for these types of items. In addition, CAPR 900-2 states the following:

While the CAP Logo is the preferred option for use on items 3f(1-6) above [newsletters, web pages, invitations, business cards, coins, etc.], the command emblem or seal may be used if it would be more appropriate for the purpose and/or expected audience.

The way I interpret this is that if you're designing a squadron coin for all your members or for promotional reasons, it is preferred that you use the CAP logo. On the other hand, if you're a commander and will give these coins as special recognition (as is done in the Air Force), you could choose to use the CAP emblem or seal if it is more appropriate for the intended audience.

[Storm Chaser]

CAPR 900-2 also states the following:

The Civil Air Patrol name, seal, logo and/or command emblem will not be used for personal gain. Additionally, the name, seal, logo and/or command emblem will not be used for any commercial purpose, except under licensing agreement as approved by the Chief Operating Officer after review by General Counsel. Approval from National Headquarters Public Affairs must be obtained to use the seal, logo and/or command emblem in advertisements and for any purpose other than those listed below. [emphasis mine]

A company cannot manufacture or sell articles using CAP name and insignias for commercial purposes without a license agreement from CAP, authorized by NHQ/CO. Vanguard has such license agreement. There is no prohibition, however, for members preventing them from ordering specific items from other vendors for use in CAP and for benefit of CAP. A good example of this would be a squadron ordering plaques for an award with CAP name and seal from a local vendor. There's nothing in this regulation prohibiting such practice.

[Walkman]

Officialy Vanguard is our supplier of coins. Officialy only they can use CAP symbols. 

True to a point.

I understand the reg to mean the CAP, Inc, is asserting their legal rights to control the reproduction of their brand assets (name, logo, emblem, etc). However, the way I understand it is that if one designs a coin/patch/shirt that doesn't include those copyrighted elements, then CAP, Inc. holds no control over its manufacture.

Case in point, there's a unit in my wing whose logo, patch & coin don't show show any of the CAP brand assets. They can get those made anywhere.

While it sucks that we're limited to one official vendor for these things, this practice is commonplace.

[Eclipse]

It's further then that.  The indices and marks, etc., of CAP are authorized for appropriate, non-commercial use by members.

Storm Chaser has it correct.

[Walkman]

I wasn't around prior to VG getting the authorized vendor agreement. What was it like before that? Design something, send it up the chain for approval and then get it made where ever?

[Pylon]

I wasn't around prior to VG getting the authorized vendor agreement. What was it like before that? Design something, send it up the chain for approval and then get it made where ever?

No change to any regulation or any policy letter has been given to CAP units or membership that change anything for the general membership.  CAPR 900-series still authorizes units to have items made with CAP emblems and seals (in accordance with the regs) wherever.

[SarDragon]

OK, two things here -

I'm looking for sources, not a donnybrook over licensing. I know the rules as well as, or perhaps better than, anyone else on here. If you want to argue this, take it elsewhere. For those who have provided the requested info, thank you.

Just to clarify things regarding copyrights on logos, seals, etc., CAP doesn't have any. Their rights are specifically defined in Title 36 USC Chapter 403, Section 40306:

The corporation has the exclusive right to use the name "Civil Air Patrol" and all insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.

[flyboy53]

OK, two things here -

I'm looking for sources, not a donnybrook over licensing. I know the rules as well as, or perhaps better than, anyone else on here. If you want to argue this, take it elsewhere. For those who have provided the requested info, thank you.

Just to clarify things regarding copyrights on logos, seals, etc., CAP doesn't have any. Their rights are specifically defined in Title 36 USC Chapter 403, Section 40306:

The corporation has the exclusive right to use the name “Civil Air Patrol” and all insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.

I'd recommend these guys, a NY firm:

http://www.challengecoin.com/SFNT.htm

Just in case cost is an issue, something else you might want to consider is a dog tag. Years ago when I was with the Ohio Wing squadron that met at the Youngstown Air Reserve Base, the commander handed out a single dog tag with a commendation message along with athe traditional letter.

Years later, I was given a dog tag with AF Core Values as a different type of challenge coin. I found a local surplus store that could do them and have been handing them out individually to cadets and senior members when appropriate. The thing is, the dog tags seem to be a bigger hit because they're different than a challenge coin. Also, they can go on key chains or worn in normal fashion and are $4. for the pair with chains.

I hope this is helpful.

[Walkman]

...something else you might want to consider is a dog tag.

That's actually an extremely cool idea. Mind if I put that in my "back pocket" for use later? 

[Eclipse]

Yeah, I like that, as well.  Bought in quantity the price could probably come down even lower.

It might also be cool to do one for an activity and one with the member's name, both as a keepsake and to wear going forward.
You can sometimes find those machines online pretty cheap.

[NIN]

You can sometimes find those machines online pretty cheap.

When I was in the National Guard, they sent me over to the state HQ during Annual Training to "get dogtags" for some folks.

The folks at the HQ didn't know who did them, but even the J1 shop waved at the room the machine was in and said "Well, the machine is there."  It was this big behemoth of a thing that reminded me of a linotype machine.

So I took 30 minutes, familiarized myself with the machine and made the dogtags for the guys from the unit who needed them. Then I made myself several sets.   #winning!

[Private Investigator]

You can sometimes find those machines online pretty cheap.

When I was in the National Guard, they sent me over to the state HQ during Annual Training to "get dogtags" for some folks.

The folks at the HQ didn't know who did them, but even the J1 shop waved at the room the machine was in and said "Well, the machine is there."  It was this big behemoth of a thing that reminded me of a linotype machine.

So I took 30 minutes, familiarized myself with the machine and made the dogtags for the guys from the unit who needed them. Then I made myself several sets.   #winning!

Dogtags, I had a few sets, fond memories indeed   

[Grumpy]

Just thought you might be trying to involve the cadets in a drinking game. 

Yeah, you gotta keep an eye on Dave alright.   

[Grumpy]

OK, two things here -

I'm looking for sources, not a donnybrook over licensing. I know the rules as well as, or perhaps better than, anyone else on here. If you want to argue this, take it elsewhere. For those who have provided the requested info, thank you.

Just to clarify things regarding copyrights on logos, seals, etc., CAP doesn't have any. Their rights are specifically defined in Title 36 USC Chapter 403, Section 40306:

The corporation has the exclusive right to use the name "Civil Air Patrol" and all insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.

EMAIL sent to you.   

[wuzafuzz]

As COWG DC I've been toying with the idea of a COWG Communicator's Coin...just because it would be fun. 

Vanguard might be the preferred vendor but there's no way I'm sending them MY money when they don't even post a sample photo of their product.
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-coin-personalization-p-16597.html

I understand they are custom so one pic won't tell the entire story.  A hint of what's possible would be nice.

[Pylon]

As COWG DC I've been toying with the idea of a COWG Communicator's Coin...just because it would be fun. 

Vanguard might be the preferred vendor but there's no way I'm sending them MY money when they don't even post a sample photo of their product.
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-coin-personalization-p-16597.html

I understand they are custom so one pic won't tell the entire story.  A hint of what's possible would be nice.

Just don't use Vanguard for custom coins.  The fact that they don't show any samples of anything they've produced aside (and yes, you're right, that's not really enticing from a customer standpoint)  I attempted to get a quote out of them for a CAP challenge coin project and after two emails with a detailed RFQ, I received no response.  I got responses from about 12 other vendors, usually within 1 or 2 business days.  So I selected one of the vendors who got back to me, sent them my artwork, and got my coin rolling.  About a month or so down the road, while my coin was already in production, Vanguard gets back to me.  Out of the blue, with no response to me for over a month, they send me a "purchase order" to order coins including preview artwork (not even of my coin, something with National Cadet Competition all over it) and telling me all I have to do is sign the paperwork to get my coins into production.  Uhhh... what?

They don't want to operate like a business, they won't get my business.  That coin, and many subsequent reorders have now all been handled through another vendor who generally understands the words "customer" and "service" when they're used in conjunction.

[johnnyb47]

As COWG DC I've been toying with the idea of a COWG Communicator's Coin...just because it would be fun. 

Vanguard might be the preferred vendor but there's no way I'm sending them MY money when they don't even post a sample photo of their product.
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-coin-personalization-p-16597.html

I understand they are custom so one pic won't tell the entire story.  A hint of what's possible would be nice.

That Vanguard item is really just for the engraving that can be done on these:
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-coin-cap-appreciation-silver-p-15148.html

[Eclipse]

These are actually fairly nice, and a nice "quick" or low-production option.

Order a few and have your local Things Remembered engrave them as needed.

[Private Investigator]

Just don't use Vanguard for custom coins. 

They don't want to operate like a business, they won't get my business.  That coin, and many subsequent reorders have now all been handled through another vendor who generally understands the words "customer" and "service" when they're used in conjunction.

One of the Squadrons wanted to order patches from Vanguard. I was asked and I asked for how much. It was three times than what a local vendor charges.

The only way Vanguard survives is that people in CAP think they are the only option.