Veteran status for CAP coastal patrol veterans

[RiverAux]

Several times during and immediately after WWII attempts have been made to get veterans status for 4,612 members of the CAP who participated in coastal patrol duties, tow target, liasion, and courier services during WWII.  These all failed. 

Well, I recently came across the transcript of the hearings held Oct. 3, 1945 in the House Committee of Military Affairs, Subcommittee No. 4 in which HR1941 and HR2149 were discussed. 

Frankly, I think that there is an extremly good case to be made, especially in regards to the coastal patrol vets. 

Point No. 1:  CAP members were ordered to seek out and destroy the enemy.   AAF Antisubmarine Command Instruction No. 1, Nov. 27, 1942.  Charged coastal patrol units:

To patrol coastal shipping lanes as directed during daylight hours for the purpose of protecting friendly shipping and of locating and reporting enemy submarines, enemy warships, or suspicious craft, and to take action as equipment permits in destruction of enemy submarines; to conduct such special antisubmarine missions as are directed by headquarters, Army Air Force Antisubmarine Command

Point No. 2:  This small group of CAP members took the same oath of enlistment as other military members. 

Point No. 3:  They were considered civilians until a May 8, 1942 Army Judge Advocate General Opinion (SPJW 373.1) said coastal patrol units:

are accompanying or serving with the Army of the United States in the field, and that under the provisions of article of war 2(d) they are amenable to military discipline and subject to the jurisdiction of military courts.

Some of the main opposition points expressed during the hearing revolved around whether or not the other 125K CAP members might try to get the same benefits, but the CAP people pointed out that this service was radically different from what the rest of CAP did.  But, I suspect that worry, along with worries about other semi-military organizations that sprung up during the war (many of which were actually civilian paid employees) might use it as an excuse.   

Given all this, shouldn't CAP or the AF be trying to get veteran status for these folks while there are still a few left?

[JohnKachenmeister]

This is long overdue.

Merchant Marine sailors were civilians, but have since been granted veterans status.

The WASP's (Womens Air Service Pilots) ferried aircraft to overseas commands, and NEVER saw any action, but still were granted veterans status.

CAP veterans deserve such recognition too.

[AlaskanCFI]

Yeap, the Coastal Patrol folks have it coming.   Check out the list of WASP facts here and look at the overlap in some missions.  The advantage the WASPs had was that they were full time employees....


WASP FACTS:
o The first women to serve as pilots and fly military aircraft for the United States Army Air
Force during World War II.
o There were 28 original WAFS under the command of Nancy Harkness Love.
o The WASP served in the Air Corps from September 1942 to December 1944.
o 25,000 women applied for the Women's Flying Training Detachment, WFTD.
o 1,830 women were accepted and 1,074 graduated from the training program.
o The WASP were under the command of Jacqueline Cochran,renowned aviatrix and
Henry "Hap", commander of the Army Air Force.
o The WAFS and WFTD merged on August 5, 1943 and were renamed the Women
Airforce Service Pilots, WASP.
o Governed by the Civil Service Commission although under military discipline and orders.
o The WASP were originally stationed at the Houston Municipal Airport, Houston, Texas
but were transferred to Avenger Field, Sweetwater, Texas in February of 1943.
o WASP received seven months of training, including Primary, Basic, and Advanced
training, the same as male cadets.
o The WASP were stationed at 120 Army Air Bases within the United States.
o The WASP flew 78 different types of aircraft, every plane the Army Air Corps flew,
including the B-29.
o The WASP flew 60,000,000 miles of operation flights.
o Types of flying duties: ferrying, engineering test, demonstration, check pilot, safety pilot,
administrative, flight instructor (Basic and Instrument), towing targets for anti-aircraft,
towing targets for aerial gunnery, tracking and searchlight missions, simulated strafing
and chemical missions.
o WASP earned $150 per month while in training and $250 per month after graduation.
They paid for their own food, uniforms and lodging.
o 38 died while flying for the Army Air Corps.
o In 1977, Jimmy Carter signed a house bill giving the WASP military recognition. The
WASP received veteran's status in 1979 under Public Law 95-202.
o In 1992, the WASP voted to establish their national archives at Texas Woman's
University.
o In 2002, Irene Englund was the first WASP to receive Standard Military Honors.

[Major Carrales]

Saddly, this is a bit late in coming.  This should have been taken seriously in the 1980s and 1990s.

One person, who I knew from that era...died three or more years ago. 

The fact that this was never done...that it was not recognized when it would have most been needed.  Is a bit of an injustice...no, its a travesty!!!

If it happens now, I will be HAPPY for the WWII people who set the stage for 65 Years of the Civil Air Patrol.  They will be properly honored.  But I will also feel a saddness for those that were not honored thus in their lifetime because they died YEARS AGO and it will have happened years from NOW!!!

Those of us with Congressional Connections need to get on the ball and lobby for this.

[BillB]

According to a Florida Wing article, we're running out of time if only 7 "sub-chasers are still alive.

Palm Beach County Park Airport Honors CAP's History
Written By: Terrance Power, Captain, CAP, Director of Marketing and Public Relations, FLWG


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



West Palm Beach, FL - The Palm Beach Historical Society, along with Palm Beach County officials, Florida Wing CAP Commander Colonel Pat O'Key, CAP Subchasers, CAP senior and cadet members and airport supporters unveiled a commemorative plaque to acknowledge the Palm Beach County Park Airport's role (formerly known as Lantana Airport) with Civil Air Patrol in helping to protect our country's vital shipping lanes during the early days of World War II.

Coastal Patrol Base Number 3 at Lantana Airport was one of three 90-day experimental bases established on the east coast of the United States to assist with anti-submarine patrols. Civilian aviators flew missions up to 60 miles out to sea between Palm Beach and Cape Canaveral to search for German U-boats. The 90-day experiment was an overwhelming success, and the program expanded across the entire east coast of the country. Pilots from the Lantana Airport base flew over 1,500,000 miles in their support of their missions for America during World War II.

The ceremony, which was timed to coincide with Civil Air Patrol's 65th anniversary, was held at the outstanding CAP Squadron facilities located at the airport.

Lt. Col. Buddy Harris, one of the 7 remaining original 'subchasers' in Civil Air Patrol - and a member of the Florida Wing - gave a very stirring presentation on the role that Civil Air Patrol played during those dark days immediately surrounding our country's being attacked at Pearl Harbor.

He reminded all of us of the countless number of lives that were saved by the dedication of the CAP members flying 'those little red and yellow planes' (to quote a bitter German U-boat commander after the war ended) to end the ravage of our ships by enemy submarines.

Over 500,000 flight hours were logged by CAP volunteers flying over open water from dawn to dusk well over half a century ago, and nearly 30 of them paid the ultimate price for their commitment to our freedom. We owe a debt of gratitude to all who climbed into those small aircraft to do their part in securing America's future.

Florida Wing Commander Colonel Pat O'Key also addressed the large audience, reminding them all of Civil Air Patrol's continued support of our Cadet Programs, Emergency Services, Aerospace Education, as well as our expanding roles in Homeland Security and Hurricane Relief.

[Major Carrales]

According to a Florida Wing article, we're running out of time if only 7 "sub-chasers are still alive.

Bill,

This makes me weap a little.  "I fear too little to late" is about to become the mantra of the day.

I don't expect veterans benefits for modern CAP members, but these people DEFENDED the HOMELAND from clear and present dangers at the risk of their lives during a WORLD WAR and lived to tell about it.

It is fitting that we honor them...but that it comes so late is, as I said before, a travesty.

What would be a fitting honor to them that would emortalize them that has not been done?

And... a question...

Are their archives on the Coastal Patrols?  I would liek to see exacatally what happened in Corpus Chisti.  I'm collecting info from local papars via microfilm, but is there more?

[RiverAux]

The CAP Historical Foundation sells, "From Maine to Mexico" a great book primarily made up of interviews with veterans from all the CAP coastal patrol bases. 

[Major Carrales]

The CAP Historical Foundation sells, "From Maine to Mexico" a great book primarily made up of interviews with veterans from all the CAP coastal patrol bases. 

Yes, but that is a secondary source.  Anyone got a bibliography of that book they could scan and send to me?

[RiverAux]

No, it is primary source material containing accounts of the veterans themselves.   I very much doubt that anything will ever be written that is more comlete than this.   

As to actual documents, the latest CAP volunteer says the complete records of one of the bases was recently found.

I suspect if one were enterprising enough they could find a lot of info on activities by going through the records of the organizations that oversaw CAP bases, but it would be a lot of work. 

[NYWG Historian]

Do review the chapter about Corpus Christi in From Maine to Mexico--it's worth the read and will offer enticing tidbits on where to dig for more information.  I was fortunate that I was able to find that the Library of Congress had a copy of the Base 17 history and I paid for a photocopy to be made and mailed to me (the LOC is a bit steep on photocopy charges!). 

I've since stumbled upon actual hardcovers of the Base 17 and Base 21 histories at a used book store in Maine.  I also also able to make a photocopy of the original typed version of the Base 4 history, written by Isaac Burnham.  His son was gracious enough to let me review a number of his father's files.  I'm hoping to get all three of these histories scanned and loaded to our wing history website in the next couple of months.

Check with local libraries, historical societies, the TX State Archives, etc.  If someone wrote a history of the base (they were all instructed to do so by National HQ), a copy may have been distributed, but it would likely be in vertical files, rather than on the shelves.

I've also been tracking down sons and daughters of members who have passed away in the hopes they can help with information.  It's proven challenging but rewarding at the same time.  The daughter of CB Colby, a reknowned author of some 50+ books, including This is Your Civil Air Patrol, is actually in the process of reviewing her father's materials and will be sending me info related to his service as a founding member of CAP and New York Wing.

Keefer's book actually has an Epilogue discussing the topic of veteran recognition for the coastal patrol folks.

[RiverAux]

Well, I suppose this is better than nothing.....From the draft Nov NEC meeting minutes:

6. ITEM: Recognition of Living Sub-chasers (DSM and Promotion to Colonel)
MAJ GEN PINEDA stated that there are only five Sub-chasers remaining alive in Civil Air Patrol. He recommended that the five living Sub-chasers be promoted to the grade of CAP Colonel in recognition of their service to Civil Air Patrol and to the country. If approved, he proposed an appropriate ceremony at a time and place to be determined.
COL TODD/SWR MOVED and COL MOODY/NATCON seconded that the NEC vote
to recognize the five living Sub-chasers by awarding them Distinguished Service
Medals and promoting them to the grade of Colonel.
MOTION CARRIED WITH NO DISSENTING VOTES
FOLLOW-ON ACTION: Staff action for awards and promotions; Director of Program Development will recommend a time and place for an appropriate ceremony.