Where is 2010 Winter Board Meeting?

[billford1]

I read the agenda (thank you) and I've heard the sentiment about divorce from the AF. I would like to  see the players slow down and do nothing. There are too many long time high Qual CAP members who are standing too close to the door because they don't want to be put in their place with a uniform decree. Why are members being blamed for pestering their Squadron Commanders who have driven too much uniform change?   I hope they'll leave things alone for a while rather than being too concerned about image protection.

[Spike]

Everyone can just start showing up to meetings naked!!
Seriously though, I like the RedCross model.  It has worked for them for so many years.  We can get our Federal Charter, give aid to the military (any branch) and still keep our Cadet Program.  We can still meet on and in DOD property (just like Boy Scouts, if they chose to). 

We would be free to design a uniform that looks just like an Air Force uniform, but with the changes mandated by AF regulations to make it distinctive.  Groups do it all the time.  They switch out a silver nametag for a Red Nametag, and call themselves state defense forces.  No harm no foul, but yet, CAP (who is the only AF Auxiliary is relegated to sitting in the back of the pickup truck with a bag over our head.

I will inform everyone here and now, that I am very close to submitting my second revision of to Air Force Officers Guide.  I appreciate those here that gave me help and reworded some sentences.  As soon as it passes through editing and is approved, I have permission to post it here.  It should only be a few day!  In total it is 1 chapter, 23 pages (with pics of course.....approved by the General herself). 

[flyguy06]

DO NOT let CAP design it...  Let the AF design the new uniform according to EMS and Fire standards of polo type or field unforms. I am sure there some reasonableness to the AF and working a way to a new CAP uniform.  If it happens CAPers, then you will a whole new set of uniform issues to chirp about if PAPA AF says.... no more uniforms for you!

Let the AF TELL CAP what is up and if necessary, tell CAP they are on their own to find a vendor of unforms ands if th AF has the funds, then the AF funds it.

I can see the reasoning of the USAF.  CAP ought just accept the current AF funding matrix and gets its own uniform once-n- for all.  The USAF has other missions other than worrying about how CAP embarasses the AF on our wear.

I am all for a new change in CAP...COMPLETELY away from any military style  uniform...WEEE are the CIVIL Air Patrol, by the way.  If the AF says CAP ...go find your own..what is CAP going to do then??

This is my proof that members want to become a vouluneer EMS organization or fire dept. There are many of us that love our affiliation withthe military and we want to wear military styl uniform. I have no desire to be a EMS organization. I could go through my entire CAP career and never get an ES qualifiaction and I would be fine. Thats not why I joied CAP. So if CAP did away with the AF style uniform you would loose a lot of good leaders. I would love to hear fromthe AF COS onhis view of CAP.

[EMT-83]

How does the on-line opinion voiced by one person with a serious chip on his shoulder prove or disprove anything?

[flyguy06]

I am almost sure there are many more that think like he does

[FARRIER]

I am almost sure there are many more that think like he does

I think there is also a segment that don't think cadets belong participating in SAR activities. I remember as a cadet 27 years ago the saying flight line was created to keep cadets busy.

[flyguy06]

I am almost sure there are many more that think like he does

I think there is also a segment that don't think cadets belong participating in SAR activities. I remember as a cadet 27 years ago the saying flight line was created to keep cadets busy.

That must be state dependant. When I was a cadet in the mid 80's tothe mid 90's cadets were very active on ground teams. I was on a ground team at age 15 and we  went out on real missions.

But you are right. There is a segment thay doesnt want cadets on ground teams.

[FARRIER]

I am almost sure there are many more that think like he does

I think there is also a segment that don't think cadets belong participating in SAR activities. I remember as a cadet 27 years ago the saying flight line was created to keep cadets busy.

That must be state dependant. When I was a cadet in the mid 80's tothe mid 90's cadets were very active on ground teams. I was on a ground team at age 15 and we  went out on real missions.

But you are right. There is a segment thay doesnt want cadets on ground teams.

No, it was a mindest that was prevallent, depending upon the mission coordinator.

[Cecil DP]

..

You want to show off your military bling?  Build a shadow box.


I wish CAP and the USAF would follow the policy set forth by the Veterans Administration which allows and promotes the wear of military ribbons, badges and/or medals with civillian attire (CAP alternative uniforms?).

[Spike]

I wear 1 CAP Ribbon.  I have 12, but only wear 1.  I also have many military ribbons, but do not wear any.  I would rather a person take interest in me (follow my lead) based on my actions, not on my dozens of ribbons. 

Decorations and Ribbons are important, but it does not mean a person is a good leader. 

[billford1]

I am almost sure there are many more that think like he does

I think there is also a segment that don't think cadets belong participating in SAR activities. I remember as a cadet 27 years ago the saying flight line was created to keep cadets busy.

That must be state dependant. When I was a cadet in the mid 80's to the mid 90's cadets were very active on ground teams. I was on a ground team at age 15 and we  went out on real missions.

But you are right. There is a segment that doesn't want cadets on ground teams.

Dedicated Cadets give strong effort to gaining their ES Quals. When they are qualified and on a mission they can be a big asset. In an event last summer we were at a non SAR activity where a civilian visitor sustained a serious gash in his leg. I was amazed and very proud of how skillfully and efficiently the Cadets with me attended to that individual and applied first aid and comfort to him before he was transported to his next destination.  A few years ago I can recall an incident where another Cadet who while working at his non CAP summer job encountered a severely injured individual who was getting no help while his situation worsened. The Cadet immediately took the initiative and worked very hard to assess the situation while he communicated with EMS and Police personnel who hurried to the scene where they were directed by that Cadet. The rescuers thanked and congratulated the Cadet for his proactive efforts that may have saved that man's life. For me as a GTL if I have Cadets who are GTM3 qualified and are 16 I'm glad to bring them on a mission especially at times when senior ground team members are often unavailable.

[flyguy06]

I wear 1 CAP Ribbon.  I have 12, but only wear 1.  I also have many military ribbons, but do not wear any.  I would rather a person take interest in me (follow my lead) based on my actions, not on my dozens of ribbons. 

Decorations and Ribbons are important, but it does not mean a person is a good leader.

Most of the time people dont even know what those ribbons and badges mean. I wore my jump wings at an encampment for a whole week. a few moths later a cadet joined the army and went to jump school. I contacted him to congradulate him. He told me he didnt know I was Airborne. Most CAP folks dont pay attenteion to the badges. I think we were them to impresss ourselves or make ourselves feel good.

[Spike]

^ I also believe that.  Many people need to feel self-important and "show off" accomplishments.

Really, it is better to demonstrate what you can do, than what you did.  I had an AF Pararescueman in my unit a few years ago.  He wore all his bling, talked up some great stories, but when asked to demonstrate what he knew....he flaked out on us.  Those are the people that take up time, and space. 

I hate nothing more than members who come to BS for 3 hours each week, and never contribute.  I have asked 2 or 3 in the past two years to "go away" before. 

[billford1]

There are people who come out on a SAR event and are there because they want to help.  The GT Badge is great to have but I wouldn't want to be the guy who has his chest puffed out who suddenly develops a lack of interest when he is asked to help out on a mission. Guys like that probably won't get asked again. If we go out to deactivate an ELT that someone should have turned off and that's anticipated I can sort of understand but there might be a serious situation there where our showing up will make a difference. My Sqn Commander showed up at a crash site where a guy had crawled out of a burning A/C and then crawled back in when the fire went out because if the extreme cold. When they got there the guy was nearly gone but was revived. When you can be a volunteer and save somebody's life the ceremonies or uniform additions won't matter. The memory of the saved person will matter always. That's especially true with the case in CO where I understand a number of people were rescued.

[flyguy06]

I mean dont misundersdtand. Medals and badges are nice. its our "pay" so to speak. Nothing wrong with being recognized. But I have an issue with people that want to flaunt it around "hey look at me, I have 5 saves" Let us be the ones to go oooo and ahhhhh not yoube the one to have to point it out to us.

Anyway, So whereis the summer board going to be held this year?

[billford1]

Point understood. Probably Vegas.

[SarDragon]

Point understood. Probably Vegas.

Nope, San Diego. The weekend before Labor Day.

[heliodoc]

You know, after reading all these threads

NOT nary a mention how the NEC or all the higher ups have been to the push for HR1178....The study to make CAP "do more" missions for HLS, DHS, FEMA

If I was an EM type reading this about all the uniform issues and NOT how we are improving ourselves to aim toward being more serious towards the FEMA and DHS, I would reallly begin to wonder about CAP folks and their uniform issues rather than REALLY CENTERING on the REAL issues that could ensure CAP survival in its quest for missions....


BUT NOOOOOOO CAP still has to piddle away time to talk about unis and bling..

Maybe these Natl Board meetings would have a quite a bit more meat than  worrying about bling and uniforms.

CAPers ought to REALLLY think about that...cuz I would really begin to wonder about these CAP inhouse infighting issues that they can not solve in less than 1 year.  Time to start looking towards the future, folks, 'cuz with reading the agenda...not a mention about how CAP is planning for the future in the DHS arena

The agenda might be important to the self important in CAP......but they are not really ready for the big world...not yet maybew in 10 to 15 yrs

Prove to me that CAP is taking seriously the HLS missions on their agendas....other than what CAP does already...

[FW]

Dealing with uniform issues and the continuing changes of policies; increasing reporting demands, safety requirements, etc. all the time does seem to be a bit short sighted and trivial however, that is what "they" do.  That being said, our relationship with 1st AF is probably better now than at any other time.  Of course, it would be great if there was no need to force HLS to study our "usefullness".  But, we only have so much money to "lobby".  Most missions though are "local".  Wings have been doing AF approved missions for years.   Recently, HQ has set up a support system for wings to become more engaged with their respective states.  Again, money is an issue.  We still do not have the income stream necessary to do things the way it should.  And, ES is not the only area we could do better.  Our school programs seem to have hit a brick wall. Our Aerosapce Eduacation outreach seems at a standstill too.  Unfortunately, there seems to be no will to get the funding needed from outside contributors.  Maybe in the near future, someone will take it upon themselves to get the job done.  Until that happens; we have the status quo.  "SSDD".

[heliodoc]

Maybe CAP could have an online lobbying course

Maybe it could skirt conflict of interests issues, too  'cuz CAPers could use avatars and fake internet names to make contact with their respective Congressional leaders

Yep CAP is at a standstill with their program because of one thing......lack of person to person contact from many of the upper echelon to the lower units

I asked that very question in Citizen Corps Coordinator position...I asked what was the biggest problem?   Their response?  Not enough field contact from the office to place a face with a program...would you/ could you do this for us?

Whaddya think I said??   Same thing neeeeeeeeeeeeeding to be said about MANY A CAP program!!  One can only sit for so long pontificating uniform and regulation regurgitating to the point that the other programs suffer an unnecessary death...