Excellent quality of video feed at NB / National Board Aug '11

[jeders]

Did she just say Item 9, safety compliance interval, will now be in executive session tomorrow??  That is crap.  TRANSPARENCY, PEOPLE!!!

Yes she did. That's a change from what I thought I heard earlier though.

[JC004]

...
Col. Weiss campaigned for the position, but did so with people who had no vote, and to top that off, those who did have a vote are not, in any way, accountable to those who he was campaigning with. 
...

That is incorrect.  If you are not a National Board member, then you did not see the campaigning with the National Board members. 

Very well, I withdraw that portion of my comments.

Your closed loop analysis is correct and unfortunately so.  Governance needs to change.  CAP needs fundamental change to stay up with the times.  This doesn't even have to mean "This person is corrupt, that person sucks."  That doesn't matter so much because even if and with whom it would be true, with good governance, it would just get washed out.  My point is that CAP needs to move forward, taking the example of many other national volunteer organizations that have modernized far beyond CAP. 

CAP has serious challenges - like the fact that it MUST RUN on VERY LIMITED paid professional staff.  Organizations like the Red Cross or whatever would have a full professional staff at a local level while CAP has an administrator in each state and a limited NHQ.  HUGE DIFFERENCE.  It doesn't mean the paid people are BETTER, but people have lives and need to SURVIVE. 

It means that CAP needs the infrastructure to compensate for its limited resources that are far surpassed by other national volunteer organizations. (this infrastructure issue, by the way, is largely why the membership in general was involved in the targeting for this campaign)

If they fail to implement that infrastructure, CAP will bleed and have persistent problems - not the least of which is retention. 

The sentiments expressed here an in the "former members" thread are repeated OVER and OVER and OVER in the national member exit surveys by those who quit CAP.  If they don't fix it now, CAP is out of luck.

[NCRblues]

This is the most angry i have ever been at CAP...

This election made me physical sick....

A member of the NB, in such a hurry to slap FW down, confirms that the governance model that many said was not true, to be in fact....EXCATLY WHAT WAS SAID IN CLOSED SESSION. We were lied to...all of us...all of you, how can you tolerate that??

Not a single question to Carr? Not a single one? And Carr says he wants to serve courter some more? WHAT?? She is leaving!!!

The endorsements made me sick. Members of the national board WHO ARE CLEARLY OVER THE WIEGHT LIMIT WEARING AF DRESS BLUES. A member of the NB, who said "now is not the time to take risks".... RISKS ON WHAT?? Making ourselves better???

So now, they want to take items to "executive session"?? Really?? Why? Violation of the open meetings act i would have to say....

Sickening....

3 more years of same ol same ol....

[JC004]

...
A member of the NB, in such a hurry to slap FW down, confirms that the governance model that many said was not true, to be in fact....EXCATLY WHAT WAS SAID IN CLOSED SESSION. We were lied to...all of us...all of you, how can you tolerate that??
...

I didn't pay much attention to this issue, but now that they have brought it up (and some are saying violated the NDA themselves by doing it? wow.), I would like to know why.  I've got people asking me why we were told different that what THEY THEMSELVES just said from the floor today and I HAVE NO IDEA.  I'm really very confused since, as I said, I didn't follow this issue much.

[NCRblues]

...
A member of the NB, in such a hurry to slap FW down, confirms that the governance model that many said was not true, to be in fact....EXCATLY WHAT WAS SAID IN CLOSED SESSION. We were lied to...all of us...all of you, how can you tolerate that??
...

I didn't pay much attention to this issue, but now that they have brought it up (and some are saying violated the NDA themselves by doing it? wow.), I would like to know why.  I've got people asking me why we were told different that what THEY THEMSELVES just said from the floor today and I HAVE NO IDEA.  I'm really very confused since, as I said, I didn't follow this issue much.

The reason, flat out, is they didn't want us worker peons to know...plain and simple.... i have no faith in ANY of the CAP "leadership"...i cant wait for Ned to weigh in....lets see if we get another round of BS....

[davidsinn]

...
A member of the NB, in such a hurry to slap FW down, confirms that the governance model that many said was not true, to be in fact....EXCATLY WHAT WAS SAID IN CLOSED SESSION. We were lied to...all of us...all of you, how can you tolerate that??
...

I didn't pay much attention to this issue, but now that they have brought it up (and some are saying violated the NDA themselves by doing it? wow.), I would like to know why.  I've got people asking me why we were told different that what THEY THEMSELVES just said from the floor today and I HAVE NO IDEA.  I'm really very confused since, as I said, I didn't follow this issue much.

The reason, flat out, is they didn't want us worker peons to know...plain and simple.... i have no faith in ANY of the CAP "leadership"...i cant wait for Ned to weigh in....lets see if we get another round of BS....

I'm not understanding what this is all about. Can someone give me a cliffs notes version of the argument?

[NCRblues]

...
A member of the NB, in such a hurry to slap FW down, confirms that the governance model that many said was not true, to be in fact....EXCATLY WHAT WAS SAID IN CLOSED SESSION. We were lied to...all of us...all of you, how can you tolerate that??
...

I didn't pay much attention to this issue, but now that they have brought it up (and some are saying violated the NDA themselves by doing it? wow.), I would like to know why.  I've got people asking me why we were told different that what THEY THEMSELVES just said from the floor today and I HAVE NO IDEA.  I'm really very confused since, as I said, I didn't follow this issue much.

The reason, flat out, is they didn't want us worker peons to know...plain and simple.... i have no faith in ANY of the CAP "leadership"...i cant wait for Ned to weigh in....lets see if we get another round of BS....

I'm not understanding what this is all about. Can someone give me a cliffs notes version of the argument?

Last NB meeting, they voted on and passed NDA's. The NB went into closed door session right away, where a "governance study" was presented to the NB. FW posted what he thought was said during the meeting. Members of the NB,NEC and BOG all said his version was not true at all....

Then today, during the Q @ A for FW, a colonel (don't know his name) jumps up and confirms that what FW posted was true, and asked how FW found out. FW said he was just speculating. The Colonel asking the question goes on to say "its in bullet form, and exactly what was said in session"....

SO....the members of the NB, NEC and BOG who said "FW version is just wild rumors and speculating" lied to all of us..... LIED LIED LIED.

[AirDX]

Maintain some perspective, folks.  There's still a job to be done.  If you want to take your ball and go home, have at it.  But for me, I have a meeting tonight (and safety ed part to do), meeting on Friday night to do monthly safety ed at another squadron, O-rides on Saturday, and a Cope Spade on the horizon to think about.  I'm going to work on all that, and let this all wash over me.

[HGjunkie]

Question- does Gen. Carr have a platform posted somewhere (like Col. Weiss) that is accessible to the membership?

[JC004]

...
A member of the NB, in such a hurry to slap FW down, confirms that the governance model that many said was not true, to be in fact....EXCATLY WHAT WAS SAID IN CLOSED SESSION. We were lied to...all of us...all of you, how can you tolerate that??
...

I didn't pay much attention to this issue, but now that they have brought it up (and some are saying violated the NDA themselves by doing it? wow.), I would like to know why.  I've got people asking me why we were told different that what THEY THEMSELVES just said from the floor today and I HAVE NO IDEA.  I'm really very confused since, as I said, I didn't follow this issue much.

The reason, flat out, is they didn't want us worker peons to know...plain and simple.... i have no faith in ANY of the CAP "leadership"...i cant wait for Ned to weigh in....lets see if we get another round of BS....

I'm not understanding what this is all about. Can someone give me a cliffs notes version of the argument?

What they basically accused him of leaking wasn't leaked by him.  He wasn't a party to the meeting.  It was already going around on e-mail (I know, I saw it!), phone, and all over.  I'm not even someone who seeks out that kind of info and I saw it and heard it!  Some people DO seek out that gossip.  FW posted what was in those e-mails, phone conversations, and from what I understand, already posted elsewhere on the internet.

The furthest back on the FWD on the e-mails that I remember was a WING COMMANDER.

Again, I'm a bit confused because I didn't follow this stuff from start to finish.  I saw the e-mails, saw the thread, and just assumed it'd be written off by the BoG - therefore making it IRRELEVANT to me.  Now that this has come up at the board meeting and people are seeking me out for information, I don't like this very much.

[tdepp]

Thought the video quality was great but the audio was a bit low. Had to crank it up to "11' on my computer.

[NCRblues]

Question- does Gen. Carr have a platform posted somewhere (like Col. Weiss) that is accessible to the membership?

Nope...

[JC004]

Question- does Gen. Carr have a platform posted somewhere (like Col. Weiss) that is accessible to the membership?

Nope...

Correct.  NO OTHER candidates for either office released a written plan.  Gen Carr released two letters (the intent letter required) and a letter e-mailed to the National Board (http://www.ourcap.org/wp-content/uploads/Board-Members.pdf and attached to this post).  Neither had a plan in them.  I didn't see much from the Vice Commander candidates, but no written plan like Colonel Weiss's was released. 

The Weiss plan (http://www.ourcap.org/wp-content/uploads/Solutions_for_CAP.pdf) was e-mailed, posted on the website, and mailed to the National Board directly before members of the NB received phone calls from Col Weiss.

As a result, we don't really know the exact direction that they want to take CAP, what kind of things they will ask of the National Board, what their goals will be, if they will communicate with us in the field, what kind of technology they'd use (since they've decided to mention it in speeches but had no plan like Colonel Weiss's technology plan), or anything like that.  In addition, they are not really held accountable to their words because they aren't out there for us to see (which was Col Weiss's intent in releasing the plan to EVERYONE).

[davidsinn]

...
A member of the NB, in such a hurry to slap FW down, confirms that the governance model that many said was not true, to be in fact....EXCATLY WHAT WAS SAID IN CLOSED SESSION. We were lied to...all of us...all of you, how can you tolerate that??
...

I didn't pay much attention to this issue, but now that they have brought it up (and some are saying violated the NDA themselves by doing it? wow.), I would like to know why.  I've got people asking me why we were told different that what THEY THEMSELVES just said from the floor today and I HAVE NO IDEA.  I'm really very confused since, as I said, I didn't follow this issue much.

The reason, flat out, is they didn't want us worker peons to know...plain and simple.... i have no faith in ANY of the CAP "leadership"...i cant wait for Ned to weigh in....lets see if we get another round of BS....

I'm not understanding what this is all about. Can someone give me a cliffs notes version of the argument?

Last NB meeting, they voted on and passed NDA's. The NB went into closed door session right away, where a "governance study" was presented to the NB. FW posted what he thought was said during the meeting. Members of the NB,NEC and BOG all said his version was not true at all....

Then today, during the Q @ A for FW, a colonel (don't know his name) jumps up and confirms that what FW posted was true, and asked how FW found out. FW said he was just speculating. The Colonel asking the question goes on to say "its in bullet form, and exactly what was said in session"....

SO....the members of the NB, NEC and BOG who said "FW version is just wild rumors and speculating" lied to all of us..... LIED LIED LIED.

OK, that's what I thought was going on. Where were we told that FW's info was bad? That other thread is a bit chaotic.

[HGjunkie]

This whole election seems like a huge mess. Was it really that politically complicated?

[davidsinn]

This whole election seems like a huge mess. Was it really that politically complicated?

Paid attention to national politics? Our little argument is nothing compared to that.

[HGjunkie]

This whole election seems like a huge mess. Was it really that politically complicated?

Paid attention to national politics? Our little argument is nothing compared to that.

For the Presidential elections? Crikey, I can barely watch the TV without wanting to throw something at it. 

[Ned]

I cant wait for Ned to weigh in....lets see if we get another round of BS....

You rang?

This is the most angry i have ever been at CAP...

This election made me physical sick....

You do indeed appear to have done some posting while sick and angry.  I hope you feel better now.

We were lied to...all of us...all of you, how can you tolerate that??

Excuse me?

SO....the members of the NB, NEC and BOG who said "FW version is just wild rumors and speculating" lied to all of us..... LIED LIED LIED.

Ummm, Fred himself said he was "just speculating" and relying on things he saw on the internet.

Look, I hear your anger and unhapiness.  I'm just not sure what you are mad about, except that the NB has chosen to talk about possible governance changes in private so that they can exchange their views candidly and passionately about this sensitive subject.

I appreciate your work with our cadets and the dedication you have shown.  I really do.

But this kind of blather posted for the world to see is not helpful.  Either to your particular concern, nor to CAP as a whole.

We can and should use CAPTalk as a forum to exchange views and information for the betterment of CAP and ourselves, and while employing our Core Value of Respect.

What words of wisdom can I find to better express my reguest for a more civil discourse?

Oh, wait, I think I found someone you might respect:

My god, that got nasty fast did it not? Come on folks lets be civil to each other, i guess the core values dont apply here. Its a discussion board not a slander board. we are supposed to be officers, set the example, and we wonder why cadets sometimes act like they do

I think that about sums it up.

Again, thank you for your service.

(Can you all see me typing this?)

[Chappie]

On a different note, I was moved during the Memorial Service to see Al Pabon's rank listed as Lt Col.  Brig Gen Paul Bergman was bestowed the DSM.  CAP does get things right at times. 

[Persona non grata]

On a different note, I was moved during the Memorial Service to see Al Pabon's rank listed as Lt Col.  Brig Gen Paul Bergman was bestowed the DSM.  CAP does get things right at times.

That a good deal.......That was very honorable promoting him to Lt.Colonel.