I've heard that narrow-band compliant radios should be capable of at least 128 channels. Does anyone know if this is a requirement or a "nice to have" feature?
I recently purchased a radio that is on the compliant list, only to discover I might need more channels than it is capable of. In this case it's a Motorola XTS-3000 Model 1, which maxes out at 48 channels.
Unfortuantely I haven't seen the new channel plan (if any one has a copy please PM me).
However unless something officially changed the current requirement is to have V1-V4 programmed in.
And it would be nice to have enough channels for local repeaters.
You will need 128 if you program in EVERY repeater pair, the alternate pairs, and the Digital freqs.
You will be able to get by with your 48, you just need to be choosy what you put in there.
I would say V1-V4, PC, and PD. As well as all of the repeater pairs in your state. After you get all of those focus on getting as many more repeater pairs as you can get. Just don't put in the alternate pairs, it is unlikely that you will find a repeater that you cannot access with the primary pairs.
Side Note- There was an initiative to require 10 channels to be required instead of the currently mandatory 4, but I don't think that has been finalized
Quote from: IceNine on September 14, 2008, 08:47:00 PM
Unfortuantely I haven't seen the new channel plan (if any one has a copy please PM me).
Good luck with that. It's FOUO.
Contact your Wing/DC to get a copy of the channel plan. And don't post it on the internet!
I HAVE OPSEC, I AM A MEMBER
Why would there be any issue releasing it privately?!?!?!
It's a matter of need to know. If you're not programming radios, you don't have a need to know. Plans should be using the channel designators.
:clap: Wow :clap:
Since when is CAP "need to know" outside of IG stuff? Its not.
If a member wants to buy a radio, or reprogram my HT-1000 there should be no problem releasing the CAP Channel plan. There is no use in trying to hide it, especially from our members. Lock and key maybe. Top secret clearance ABSOLUTELY NOT.
For reasons just as why this tread was posted, member owned equipment wanting to comply with current standards.
Since OPSEC I tend to agree with you put thats what national seems to want. Nothing like cloak and dagger BS to make things interesting.
Quote from: IceNine on September 15, 2008, 12:34:00 AM
:clap: Wow :clap:
Since when is CAP "need to know" outside of IG stuff? Its not.
When wing comm staff is directed to limit access to the frequency list by National, guess what? We do. If some scanner punks post it online, there's nothing we can do about it, but considering there have been a number of new members, cadet and senior, joining and the first thing they do is ask for the radio frequencies, before completing Ach 1 or Level 1, indicates that there are people who are desperate for the CAP frequency lists. How long do you think these new members will remain if they were given the lists as soon as they joined?
Currently, only wing and region DC's have access to the new frequency lists, not even all wing comm staff.
QuoteIf a member wants to buy a radio, or reprogram my HT-1000 there should be no problem releasing the CAP Channel plan.
If you are programing radios or need to get get one programmed, ask your wing DC. They'll be happy to give it to you. There are some channels that are wing specific, due to different MOU's and authorizations between wings and other agencies.
QuoteThere is no use in trying to hide it, especially from our members. Lock and key maybe. Top secret clearance ABSOLUTELY NOT.
If you're not programming radios, why do you need it? Just because? To pass on to your scanner buddies? If you want it, ask your wing DC. If they give it to you fine. If not, fine.
Equipment recommendations - cover 136 - 174 Mhz. Figure at least 128 channels, you may be able to get by with 64, but 48 won't cover all the channels. Make sure your equipment meets the specifications listed on the compliant radio lists.
Quote from: arajca on September 15, 2008, 01:08:12 AM
Quote from: IceNine on September 15, 2008, 12:34:00 AM
:clap: Wow :clap:
Since when is CAP "need to know" outside of IG stuff? Its not.
When wing comm staff is directed to limit access to the frequency list by National, guess what? We do. If some scanner punks post it online, there's nothing we can do about it, but considering there have been a number of new members, cadet and senior, joining and the first thing they do is ask for the radio frequencies, before completing Ach 1 or Level 1, indicates that there are people who are desperate for the CAP frequency lists. How long do you think these new members will remain if they were given the lists as soon as they joined?
Currently, only wing and region DC's have access to the new frequency lists, not even all wing comm staff.
QuoteIf a member wants to buy a radio, or reprogram my HT-1000 there should be no problem releasing the CAP Channel plan.
If you are programing radios or need to get get one programmed, ask your wing DC. They'll be happy to give it to you. There are some channels that are wing specific, due to different MOU's and authorizations between wings and other agencies.
QuoteThere is no use in trying to hide it, especially from our members. Lock and key maybe. Top secret clearance ABSOLUTELY NOT.
If you're not programming radios, why do you need it? Just because? To pass on to your scanner buddies? If you want it, ask your wing DC. If they give it to you fine. If not, fine.
Equipment recommendations - cover 136 - 174 Mhz. Figure at least 128 channels, you may be able to get by with 64, but 48 won't cover all the channels. Make sure your equipment meets the specifications listed on the compliant radio lists.
Rats. Since I can only do 48 channels I guess I'll reprogram for ham freqs. Hopefully I can rate an issued radio, but I'm not a GTL, GTM, or IC. It would be a bummer to be a new Communications Officer without a useful radio! :-[
The compliant radio lists don't mention requirements about the number of channels. Hopefully that will become common info before more people purchase radios.
Each unit Comm section is authorized one mobile radio. As a Comm Officer, you need to become familiar with the Table of Allowances. BTW, GTM does not rate a radio.
48 channels may work, depending on how many repeaters you need to access. Reason for wanting all the frequencies programmed in to each radio is for inter-wing and inter-region operations. So, if you do use your radio for CAP and go to another wing for a mission, remember your radio may not be usable.
Quote from: arajca on September 15, 2008, 02:21:36 AM
Each unit Comm section is authorized one mobile radio. As a Comm Officer, you need to become familiar with the Table of Allowances. BTW, GTM does not rate a radio.
48 channels may work, depending on how many repeaters you need to access. Reason for wanting all the frequencies programmed in to each radio is for inter-wing and inter-region operations. So, if you do use your radio for CAP and go to another wing for a mission, remember your radio may not be usable.
:o You must be reading a different TA than I have been.
Quote from: arajca on September 15, 2008, 02:21:36 AM
Each unit Comm section is authorized one mobile radio. As a Comm Officer, you need to become familiar with the Table of Allowances. BTW, GTM does not rate a radio.
48 channels may work, depending on how many repeaters you need to access. Reason for wanting all the frequencies programmed in to each radio is for inter-wing and inter-region operations. So, if you do use your radio for CAP and go to another wing for a mission, remember your radio may not be usable.
I have reviewed the TA for National and Wing but didn't see specific mention of allowances for the Comm section. Perhaps it is implied in one of the other sections, such as Unit Staff? Please forgive the "new guy questions."
It's good to hear 48 channels should work for most needs.
Perhaps this belongs in another thread, but as radios become harder to obtain it may be harder for fledgling Comm Officers to satisfy the specialty track requirement to check in to 25% of local nets annually. (Assuming local nets even exist.) If each unit had a comm shack it might be different, but many of us don't have a place to hang our hat. Those of us who joined recently were unable to license our 2 meter rigs for CAP use. Until there are more radios out there we'll have to get pretty creative.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on September 15, 2008, 01:34:51 PM
Perhaps this belongs in another thread, but as radios become harder to obtain it may be harder for fledgling Comm Officers to satisfy the specialty track requirement to check in to 25% of local nets annually. (Assuming local nets even exist.)
Yep, and when we go NB it's gonna get worse since all the converted Amateur VHF gear goes bye-bye... But don't get me started on this topic, I am in a good mood this morning. :)
Check with your wing DC about a waiver for the check in requirement. If there are no local nets (I live in such an area) then it's easy - 25% of zero is zero.
Also, with the new Comm Training Program, the current Comm Officer track will be closed and new Comm Manager track opened at the end of the implementation.
You are correct, I had an old TA that listed a radio for the unit comm staff. The current on just says unit staff.
Quote from: arajca on September 15, 2008, 02:13:03 PM
Check with your wing DC about a waiver for the check in requirement. If there are no local nets (I live in such an area) then it's easy - 25% of zero is zero.
That should be with the Unit Commander, no? The Unit Commander is the one who must be satisfied that the requirements have been met, IIRC.
Quote from: arajca on September 15, 2008, 02:13:03 PM
You are correct, I had an old TA that listed a radio for the unit comm staff. The current on just says unit staff.
It should also list Ground Teams, UDF Teams, and ICs as "Mission Critical" - first up for gear. "Mission Essential", which is the second tier of priority, includes Unit Staff.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on September 15, 2008, 02:35:35 PM
Quote from: arajca on September 15, 2008, 02:13:03 PM
Check with your wing DC about a waiver for the check in requirement. If there are no local nets (I live in such an area) then it's easy - 25% of zero is zero.
That should be with the Unit Commander, no? The Unit Commander is the one who must be satisfied that the requirements have been met, IIRC.
Check with the wing DC because you could be setting a precedent or establishing a wing policy. A letter or note from the DC should satisfy the Unit Commander.
Quote from: arajca on September 15, 2008, 03:55:43 PM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on September 15, 2008, 02:35:35 PM
Quote from: arajca on September 15, 2008, 02:13:03 PM
Check with your wing DC about a waiver for the check in requirement. If there are no local nets (I live in such an area) then it's easy - 25% of zero is zero.
That should be with the Unit Commander, no? The Unit Commander is the one who must be satisfied that the requirements have been met, IIRC.
Check with the wing DC because you could be setting a precedent or establishing a wing policy. A letter or note from the DC should satisfy the Unit Commander.
Good stuff! Thanks for the info.
I have seen the new channel plan and as far as I can tell, any radio on the compliance list you will be fine with. NO I do not have a copy that I can send out as it is need to know only. basically if your not on wing comm staff working on reprogramming you don't get to see it.
I would recommend the Vertex 4204. its a great little radio and with 501 channels you cant fill it up easy and it only cost around 400 bucks!
MG courter has this radio herself (if anyone cares)
Quote from: caprr275 on October 02, 2008, 03:40:18 PM
I would recommend the Vertex 4204. its a great little radio and with 501 channels you cant fill it up easy and it only cost around 400 bucks!
Might be a little dicey getting that approved by the Wing/DC now since it is NOT listed as being compliant with the new NB (Post 2006) standard. If it was in service before, all should be OK (as is the case with my VX-800), but to the best of my knowledge you cannot put them in service at this time.
Quote from: caprr275 on October 02, 2008, 03:40:18 PM
I have seen the new channel plan and as far as I can tell, any radio on the compliance list you will be fine with.
...
That's good to know. I've just bought four HT1000s for me and some other squadron members for CAP use. I've been worried that the 16 channel limit wasn't going to cut it in the future.
[Thread hijack] Another squadron member has six XTS3000, though they are programmed with the HT1K plan, rather than the EFJ channel plan. Can anyone offer an inexpensive, CAP friendly programming shop for the Astro Saber/XTS3K? The two local shops are ridiculously expensive, and I don't have $275 laying around to buy the software myself, though at $50-per radio, I might as well![/Thread hijack]
I just picked up a new Kenwood tk-2160 of ebay for $216, and a cable from another vendor for $20. 16 channel, but it's all I need right now for around the area. Software is available for free, if you know where to look.
Brian
PAWG
Quote from: Rangercap on October 04, 2008, 09:31:41 PM
I just picked up a new Kenwood tk-2160 of ebay for $216, and a cable from another vendor for $20. 16 channel, but it's all I need right now for around the area. Software is available for free, if you know where to look.
Brian
PAWG
Is it legaly free?
please keep in mind that the list of new freqs. is still chaging.... the VX 4204 IS compliant
The list is not changing. It has been released to DC's to begin reprogramming radios.
last time i checked about 2 weeks ago we are still waiting on one set of frequincies that is being disuputed with canada. they use a close freq. for their EMTs
i know reporgraming has started, i just uploaded the new freqs to my radio the other day
Quote from: CAP.is.1337 on October 02, 2008, 06:05:55 PM
Quote from: caprr275 on October 02, 2008, 03:40:18 PM
I have seen the new channel plan and as far as I can tell, any radio on the compliance list you will be fine with.
...
That's good to know. I've just bought four HT1000s for me and some other squadron members for CAP use. I've been worried that the 16 channel limit wasn't going to cut it in the future.
[Thread hijack] Another squadron member has six XTS3000, though they are programmed with the HT1K plan, rather than the EFJ channel plan. Can anyone offer an inexpensive, CAP friendly programming shop for the Astro Saber/XTS3K? The two local shops are ridiculously expensive, and I don't have $275 laying around to buy the software myself, though at $50-per radio, I might as well![/Thread hijack]
Check with your local EMA, or volunteer fire agencies. A lot of times they have the stuff to do it sitting around.
At least in my area they do that is.
I'm going to bump this topic with new, but related questions:
If you have to take your member-owned radio to a commercial shop for programming, are there any disclosure agreements or other paperwork hurdles to clear? Are they likely to resist programming gov't frequencies on the virtue of a CAP ID card alone? Finally, is relying on a commercial shop a bozo no-no?
Relying on a commercial shop is ok, but you need to read the new Permission letter that came out. Part of it covers how to obtain permission to release the frequencies.
Your best bet is to contact your wing DC for more information and recommendations.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on October 31, 2008, 07:02:07 PM
I'm going to bump this topic with new, but related questions:
If you have to take your member-owned radio to a commercial shop for programming, are there any disclosure agreements or other paperwork hurdles to clear? Are they likely to resist programming gov't frequencies on the virtue of a CAP ID card alone? Finally, is relying on a commercial shop a bozo no-no?
Yes, Gen. Courter released an ICL to 100-1 that details how to get permission.
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2008_10_28_comm_permissions_EB306B1EF1672.pdf
With that said, considering that your radios have to be certified for licensing anyway, you should be able to get them
programmed by someone on the Wing's Comm staff.