Reserve/Patron members

[Brit_in_CAP]

And - lefty -> loosy; righty -> tighty

:clap: 

Not heard that since Trade Training!  That's 'Brit-RAF-speak' for A school..

[Eclipse]

And that's why they have to be on NHQ-996. Because their number won't affect you.

Actually, they still do.

My plan for the unit in my area (should I ever accept), was to transfer the patrons to 996, except NHQ wants no
part of retaining their records, so they told me that even when you transfers someone to 996, the last unit of
record has to retain their records.

That's almost worse then keeping them on the local books, because now you're tending records of a member that will
likely never come back.

further to this point, records for empty shirts that are incomplete are still fair game for SUI discrepancies like
incomplete 45s.  Easily fixed, but why should a CC even have to bother?

[PHall]

And - lefty -> loosy; righty -> tighty

:clap: 

Not heard that since Trade Training!  That's 'Brit-RAF-speak' for A school..

Or as the US Air Force calls it, Tech School.

[Shuman 14]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Eclipse is absolutely correct. "A reserve/patron member is a financial supporter..." (emphasis mine) -- CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1b

Any patron wishing to complete Level 1 or participate in other training can easily become an "active" member. If their personal circumstances change, they can always become a patron again. There's no requirement for "active" members to attend a set number of meetings, so membership can accommodate different individuals and their particular circumstances.

Well that's not what I was told. I was told that if I couldn't come to meeting I should just be patron and call it a day.

So, if I follow you, I can just go join a unit, pay more money, get my Military rank/grade appointment, complete all the online courses I want, and still really do "nothing" just like a Patron Member?

[Shuman 14]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited? 

[Shuman 14]

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed? 

[Eclipse]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited? 

No - new member recruits are "invited", either specifically or by implication, for a limited period, generally 3 meetings.
After that, join or don't, but you can't come to meetings.  In fact, by regulation, Patron members have less rights
to attend meetings then recruits, since they have already indicated their level of intended involvement (i.e. zero),
they are specifically restricted from any participation unless specifically invited.

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed?

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

[ColonelJack]

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

In that statement, Bob, there is more truth in the world of today than you probably realize ... because the cynic in me sees that everywhere.

Jack

[Storm Chaser]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Eclipse is absolutely correct. "A reserve/patron member is a financial supporter..." (emphasis mine) -- CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1b

Any patron wishing to complete Level 1 or participate in other training can easily become an "active" member. If their personal circumstances change, they can always become a patron again. There's no requirement for "active" members to attend a set number of meetings, so membership can accommodate different individuals and their particular circumstances.

Well that's not what I was told. I was told that if I couldn't come to meeting I should just be patron and call it a day.

So, if I follow you, I can just go join a unit, pay more money, get my Military rank/grade appointment, complete all the online courses I want, and still really do "nothing" just like a Patron Member?

Major, you know very well that's not what I said. First, CAP appointments to military grades are neither required nor automatic. If you're not actively contributing to your unit, your unit commander doesn't have to approve your grade. Second, while you may be able to complete online courses, the only way to progress in CAP's PD and Ops Quals is to actively participate in meetings and activities.

Finally, there's a difference between someone who joins with the intention of serving and participating in CAP, but then is unable to due to their personal circumstances changing, and someone who joins to take advantage of certain opportunities, but never had the intention of contributing. We don't really need the latter.

By the way, attending meetings, while important and sometimes necessary, is not the only way to contribute to the organization.

[JeffDG]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited?  :-

No - new member recruits are "invited", either specifically or by implication, for a limited period, generally 3 meetings.
After that, join or don't, but you can't come to meetings.  In fact, by regulation, Patron members have less rights
to attend meetings then recruits, since they have already indicated their level of intended involvement (i.e. zero),
they are specifically restricted from any participation unless specifically invited.

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed?

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

I'm so sorry.  I see that a Patron traumatized you in some deep way. 

[Eclipse]

^ Your support is appreciated.

[Shuman 14]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited? 

No - new member recruits are "invited", either specifically or by implication, for a limited period, generally 3 meetings.
After that, join or don't, but you can't come to meetings.  In fact, by regulation, Patron members have less rights
to attend meetings then recruits, since they have already indicated their level of intended involvement (i.e. zero),
they are specifically restricted from any participation unless specifically invited.

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed?

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

I don't see how donating money to CAP to get a tax deduction is an integrity violation? It's legal, not immoral or unethical... so what's the issue?

Say thank you and put the funds to good use.

[Shuman 14]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Eclipse is absolutely correct. "A reserve/patron member is a financial supporter..." (emphasis mine) -- CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1b

Any patron wishing to complete Level 1 or participate in other training can easily become an "active" member. If their personal circumstances change, they can always become a patron again. There's no requirement for "active" members to attend a set number of meetings, so membership can accommodate different individuals and their particular circumstances.

Well that's not what I was told. I was told that if I couldn't come to meeting I should just be patron and call it a day.

So, if I follow you, I can just go join a unit, pay more money, get my Military rank/grade appointment, complete all the online courses I want, and still really do "nothing" just like a Patron Member?

Major, you know very well that's not what I said. First, CAP appointments to military grades are neither required nor automatic. If you're not actively contributing to your unit, your unit commander doesn't have to approve your grade. Second, while you may be able to complete online courses, the only way to progress in CAP's PD and Ops Quals is to actively participate in meetings and activities.

Finally, there's a difference between someone who joins with the intention of serving and participating in CAP, but then is unable to due to their personal circumstances changing, and someone who joins to take advantage of certain opportunities, but never had the intention of contributing. We don't really need the latter.

By the way, attending meetings, while important and sometimes necessary, is not the only way to contribute to the organization.

I know that Sir, I was being mostly facetious in my reply.

[Shuman 14]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited?  :-

No - new member recruits are "invited", either specifically or by implication, for a limited period, generally 3 meetings.
After that, join or don't, but you can't come to meetings.  In fact, by regulation, Patron members have less rights
to attend meetings then recruits, since they have already indicated their level of intended involvement (i.e. zero),
they are specifically restricted from any participation unless specifically invited.

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed?

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

I'm so sorry.  I see that a Patron traumatized you in some deep way.

Ecilpse, do you need a hug Sir?  (Arms held WIDE open with a cheese eat'n grin on my face.  )

[LATORRECA]

   Every body is entitle to their opinions. Just drop it. We go it some of you are upset about some members or finacial donators. Who cares. Just drop it, because you start looking like an a**hole.  Sorry!

[sarmed1]

I think there were some valid points in there.  Specifically the reporting of "membership" numbers.  When you try to sell the organization as a resource, if you are counting and reporting "financial donors" as part of that pool of manpower, you are mispresenting things a bit.

There are legit resons for active members to go "reserve" and honestly, those folks should be held seperate from the "financial donors".    I did like the idea of transfering them out of the squadron level, to at least a wing squadron.  Take a play out of the USAF book, personnel who are unable to remain participating due to what ever reason, are transfered or can choose transfer to the IRR.  It acts a place holder, and does allow some limited participation as needed; keeping them a viable resource in the event of "the big one" also there are some limeted participating IRR catagories.

I was patron for a numebr of years due to my status as CAP-RAP as an additional duty assignment in the USAFR

mk

[LATORRECA]

I think there were some valid points in there.  Specifically the reporting of "membership" numbers.  When you try to sell the organization as a resource, if you are counting and reporting "financial donors" as part of that pool of manpower, you are mispresenting things a bit.

There are legit resons for active members to go "reserve" and honestly, those folks should be held seperate from the "financial donors".    I did like the idea of transfering them out of the squadron level, to at least a wing squadron.  Take a play out of the USAF book, personnel who are unable to remain participating due to what ever reason, are transfered or can choose transfer to the IRR.  It acts a place holder, and does allow some limited participation as needed; keeping them a viable resource in the event of "the big one" also there are some limeted participating IRR catagories.

I was patron for a numebr of years due to my status as CAP-RAP as an additional duty assignment in the USAFR

mk

Agree :clap:
That's my case