CAP NCO's

[NCRblues]

A quote from a friend (the First Lieutenant in the picture with the Chief Master Sergeant) From Facebook entry:

That afternoon, General Carr briefed the new CAP NCO program with Chief Walpus sporting the new CAP NCO Chief Master Sergeant chevrons. No implementation date has been set for the program.

So I wouldn't put too much effort in trying to interpret the CAP regulations regarding uniforms....NHQ probably is nowhere near ready to release an updated version....

Uh huh....and this does not violate the 2 year ban on unifrom changes how? When did the NB or NEC vote on this one?

Well to be fair........it is not a change....it is simply a uniform change in the test phase.   One would expect when the program gets more mature and they are ready to push it to the NB/NEC for a vote.....it will be after the 2 year ban.

But, it does not say its in a "test phase"... it says "sporting the new CAP NCO Chief Master Sergeant chevrons"....

[RiverAux]

Even if there were some allowance in our regulations for uniform testing, a new chevron style is hardly something that needs wear testing. 

[Ned]

But, it does not say its in a "test phase"... it says "sporting the new CAP NCO Chief Master Sergeant chevrons"....

If it helps, she was wearing the standard 39-1 chevrons two weeks ago in Louisville.

[MIKE]

Even if there were some allowance in our regulations for uniform testing, a new chevron style is hardly something that needs wear testing.

Well, someone can tell them to drop the CAP from the stripes anyway.  Doesn't look right, and will look even funnier on a SSgt or TSgt.

[Short Field]

Senior NCOs (E-7 to E-9) probably have enough leadership skills to run the average squadron.

How about the E-5s?

Not saying an individual would not have the skills, but a blanket assumption is just wrong.  I had too many E-7s work for mr that that had problems pouring liquid out of boots...

[sandman]

Senior NCOs (E-7 to E-9) probably have enough leadership skills to run the average squadron.

How about the E-5s?

Not saying an individual would not have the skills, but a blanket assumption is just wrong.  I had too many E-7s work for that that had problems pouring liquid out of boots...

I certainly agree. It would certainly be helpful if there existed a screening process for command positions...especially at the squadron level.

With a command screening/selection process in place, it might not matter if the squadron leader wears stripes or bars. That being said, it would be interestingly uncomfortable for a SM officer acting as a subordinate to a SM NCO in command....awkward. Maybe the SM's of the unit agree to all be "enlisted".....but then that would necessitate a viable NCO program with advancement opportunities...not...holding...breath...

Finally, I realize that this is a volunteer organization. Officer and NCO corps "professionalism" is not definable by any current means, so, lowest common denominator is that volunteers are as "professional" as they want to be, like Boy Scout/Girl Scout leaders....there does not seem to be the corporate standard that the military has if only because, in my opinion, it cannot be enforced....

[JC004]

OY!  I hope the program isn't based on the only current job position published (the one I posted). 

That said, I'm open to the idea.  I have mixed feelings because it would require a lot of changes to the PD program.

[sandman]

OY!  I hope the program isn't based on the only current job position published (the one I posted). 

That said, I'm open to the idea.  I have mixed feelings because it would require a lot of changes to the PD program.

I say bring it on!

Shake it up from the top down / bottom up!

[sandman]

Well, someone can tell them to drop the CAP from the stripes anyway.  Doesn't look right, and will look even funnier on a SSgt or TSgt.

I think it looks great!

So, sew on the "CAP" cloth cut-outs in a relative position above the E-2 through E-6 stripes.....Vanguard needs to sell more cloth cut-outs 

...just putting it out there

[Ozzy]

Well, someone can tell them to drop the CAP from the stripes anyway.  Doesn't look right, and will look even funnier on a SSgt or TSgt.

I think it looks great!

So, sew on the "CAP" cloth cut-outs in a relative position above the E-2 through E-6 stripes.....Vanguard needs to sell more cloth cut-outs 

...just putting it out there

E-4 to E-6.... We are talking about NCOs.......... which by the way, if its about NCOs, an E-4 in the Air Force isn't an NCO position but in the USMC and Army it is... (Talking about CPL, not SPC) Whats the regs for that?

[sandman]

E-4 to E-6.... We are talking about NCOs.......... which by the way, if its about NCOs, an E-4 in the Air Force isn't an NCO position but in the USMC and Army it is... (Talking about CPL, not SPC) Whats the regs for that?

Okay, granted. NCO's.

It just seems better to have a program available for neophytes to an "enlisted world" of CAP. Participating, yet learning, without too much responsibility (Like having a new 2ndLt, or, multiple Majors and LtCol's sitting around looking important, or SMWOG...or whatever, you get the point....hopefully).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And is the CMSgt wearing the soon-to-be-deep-sixed CSU, or is the flash just extraordinarily bright, making the AF blue shirt look lighter?

[Ford73Diesel]

It's hard to see, but I think that is the AF shirt.

It looks like the same material as the cadets shirt, which would be the AF shirt.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

IF we get NCO grades back, we should just K.I.S.S.

I remember an ancient ('60s era) book on Armed Forces insignia which included CAP enlisted/NCO, Warrant, and Officer grades.

It listed:

One stripe - Airman
Two stripes - Airman First Class
Three stripes - Sergeant
Three stripes/rocker - Staff Sergeant
Three stripes/two rockers - Technical Sergeant
Three stripes/three rockers - Master Sergeant

The book was in B/W so I don't know what colour the stripes were, but if we were to re-adopt them (with the prop device), silver-grey on AF Shade 84, that would look close to the AF, but different enough to be (the word I hate) "distinctive."

[SarDragon]

Senior NCOs (E-7 to E-9) probably have enough leadership skills to run the average squadron.

How about the E-5s?

Not saying an individual would not have the skills, but a blanket assumption is just wrong.  I had too many E-7s work for mr that that had problems pouring liquid out of boots...

I don't think there is an expectation for people at the E-4 to E-6 level to have all the leadership skills needed to be a squadron commander. The AF requires at least an E-6 to be commander of an overseas unit, and that is only with the approval of the base commander. I was in that position as an E-6, and was, for a variety of reasons, over my head in the job. The fact that I had a good staff, and a small unit kept me out of trouble for the five months I was commander.

My own inadequacies aside, I think that it would take an exceptional junior NCO, with prior CAP experience, to be an effective squadron commander.

I do agree with the comment about E-7s and boots, and that's why they are merely E-7s, and not Gunnery Sergeants, Master Sergeants, Chief Petty Officers, etc.

[Hardshell Clam]

  "The book was in B/W so I don't know what colour the stripes were"

Sorry, but I have to say it: It is spelled color here! ha!

[davidsinn]

Senior NCOs (E-7 to E-9) probably have enough leadership skills to run the average squadron.

How about the E-5s?

Not saying an individual would not have the skills, but a blanket assumption is just wrong.  I had too many E-7s work for mr that that had problems pouring liquid out of boots...

I don't think there is an expectation for people at the E-4 to E-6 level to have all the leadership skills needed to be a squadron commander. The AF requires at least an E-6 to be commander of an overseas unit, and that is only with the approval of the base commander. I was in that position as an E-6, and was, for a variety of reasons, over my head in the job. The fact that I had a good staff, and a small unit kept me out of trouble for the five months I was commander.

My own inadequacies aside, I think that it would take an exceptional junior NCO, with prior CAP experience, to be an effective squadron commander.

I do agree with the comment about E-7s and boots, and that's why they are merely E-7s, and not Gunnery Sergeants, Master Sergeants, Chief Petty Officers, etc.

A CPO is an E-7...Or are you saying they're not bright enough for the honor of being called a Navy Chief?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

"The book was in B/W so I don't know what colour the stripes were"

Sorry, but I have to say it: It is spelled color here! ha!

By custom, not law.   Noah Webster's mangling revision of the English language had no force of law, and he didn't follow his line of thinking to its logical conclusion; or else we would not have the spellings of through, enough, etc.  Dancing With The Stars hottie Julianne Hough would automatically be Julianne Huff.

I live a hop, skip and jump from the Canadian border, have friends/relatives there, and friends in the UK and Australia - I preferred their way, so I adopted it when I was in high school about thirty years ago.  I also read a lot of British/Irish literature.  It drove my teachers crazy in high school.

Thread digression over.

[Persona non grata]

Those stripes in the picture are not distinctive enough!!!  They should have put the triangle thingy in the middle not the CAP.  So why dont rest of the enlisted wear the chevrons with the prop.  It would have made more sense to keep the star in the middle and place a prop above to denote the position.  I dont have a prop on my grade insignia.

[jeders]

Those stripes in the picture are not distinctive enough!!!  They should have put the triangle thingy in the middle not the CAP. 

And they need to be red to make RM happy.