Hawk Mountain Ranger School

[Eclipse]

Show me the current ICL, which is not out of date per Nationals own policy regulations.

Yeah, that's been tried already, spin again.

[sarmed1]

Cadets can only wear the SAR patch. Nothing else, unless they're staff and have earned the staff rocker that goes beneath it. They can't wear a chain, belt, scarf, white laces, or Ranger Grade tab

not so fast there high speed......Firstly your  off a little in your Ranger uniform issues:
The unifrom you described is technically Ranger Base....add in white laces and its Ranger Parade.

Secondly:
The only items that are restricted to "staff cadets" are yellow/orange scarves, hats with a keystone on them and the staff rocker.
Belts, whistle chains, grade tabs, white laces and other scarves are tehcnically uniform items "authorized" to all ranger team members as authorized by the squadron commander (or some such paraphrase from the last PAWG Ranger team SOP)

And for the record there is no such things as "rolling" the hat; its pretty much just shaped to make a better front; and its not exclusive to Ranger Staff.

Frankly its crap like this that makes the program look bad to the rest of the world.  People complain about the "elitest" attitude of HMRS pesonnel; stating that there is a special class of Ranger that is the only group allowed the "Ranger Bling" just promotes that attitude.  Hate to shake up your world but you are no one special because you are on staff....

mk

[Stonewall]

For those of you not familiar with the HMRS uniform standards...

The Ranger Uniform

Pressed and Starched BDU Uniform, complete with all patches and rank (if an Officer, cloth rank will be sewn on).  The SAR (Summer School is required) patch will be sewn on.  Uniform must be in good condition.  Pants and Blouse must match. 

Shined Combat Boots, jungle boots will not be accepted

Orange Hat, with squadron numbers or Keystone (if Orange or Red Scarf) Cloth Rank sewn on - If an Officer

Bib-Scarf. Scarf will be ironed, but not creased down the center.

Gray - Staff Candidate
Yellow - Basic Staff
Orange - Advanced Staff
Green - Field Medic
Red - Medic First Class
Pistol Belt with Brass Eyelets

White - Staff & Staff Candidates
Black - Expert Ranger
Red - Master Medic
Whistle & Chain

Grooming Standards as described in CAPM 39-1

Pen and small notebook will be carried on your person at all times.

[SilverEagle2]

OK Spike...they will be able to when the new 39-1 is delivered. I still believe this is not completely accurate.

According to the CAP Knowledgebase, it says they can wear the Ranger Grade Tabs on the BBDU (and BDU once USAF approval is in hand).

Per policy, NB\NEC agenda items are in effect when approved. You state it must have an ICL, however, I respectfully disagree.

ICL's as outlined by CAPR 5-4  state an ICL can be used if needed for a listed set of circumstances.

Situations requiring immediate action due to a state of emergency, an unforeseen circumstance involving the preservation of life or property, or other contingencies that may require prompt action may result in an interim change letter being issued outlining immediate policies.

This does not fall into those categories and thus by the regs does not need an ICL. Therefore, the minutes and votes stand as policy and the update of the 39-1 is all that needs to occur. If they did issue an ICL and the change was to be permanent, the policy states that it must be incorporated within 90 days.

Since no ICL was issued (cause it did not warrant one), then no expiry is required and the agenda item stands as acceptable and in effect.

Unfortunately, NHQ has issued ICL's on Uniform Decisions did not warrant one. This is why there is mass confusion. 39-1 needs an update, we all agree. However, ICL's should never have been used as a method of informing the masses on these types of changes and thus causing this repetitive argument.

Now back to the topic at hand...

Go to Hawk and strive to be the best CAP member you can and you will be a great Hawk student.

[Rodriguez]

I would like to say so many things to all of this, too much for me to even think of at once. I can sit here and quote regs, dog pile cadets trying to make friends, discredit a program that has produced some of the finest cadets and military personnel, and flat out bash someones passion. But what do I get out of it? I certainly wouldn't feel better about myself.

As a cadet, I started young in the Ranger program and as I grew up and became Staff I was introduced to the politics and mudslinging. To be quite honest it has RUINED my time as a cadet. I like so many others had (and still do) a deep passion for the program since my first Ranger school. You would say that's because I was brainwashed with all that "Ranger Lore" But what attracted me like so many others wasn't at all like that. While other instructors sat around and clicked PowerPoint's all day my Ranger staff not only taught me the material but actually sat down in the dirt, in the rain, and got down to my level and practiced with me until I could do it as well as they could. That's what sets us apart. Do I have an elitist attitude, no I don't. You can say I do but I treat everyone all the same with the same respect. If you've got something to teach me than I'm ready to learn. But don't prejudge me or any other Ranger until you know them.

[arajca]

I would like to say so many things to all of this, too much for me to even think of at once. I can sit here and quote regs, dog pile cadets trying to make friends, discredit a program that has produced some of the finest cadets and military personnel, and flat out bash someones passion. But what do I get out of it? I certainly wouldn't feel better about myself.

As a cadet, I started young in the Ranger program and as I grew up and became Staff I was introduced to the politics and mudslinging. To be quite honest it has RUINED my time as a cadet. I like so many others had (and still do) a deep passion for the program since my first Ranger school. You would say that's because I was brainwashed with all that "Ranger Lore" But what attracted me like so many others wasn't at all like that. While other instructors sat around and clicked PowerPoint's all day my Ranger staff not only taught me the material but actually sat down in the dirt, in the rain, and got down to my level and practiced with me until I could do it as well as they could. That's what sets us apart. Do I have an elitist attitude, no I don't. You can say I do but I treat everyone all the same with the same respect. If you've got something to teach me than I'm ready to learn. But don't prejudge me or any other Ranger until you know them.

I haven't seen anyone say the training isn't good. The problem is the all the attitude crap that comes out of hawk. As for not prejudging any ranger until I know them, well, based on my experience with them, too bad. The attitude issues I've had with them - not just one or two, but almost every one of them -  tells me the training isn't worth the headaches afterward. Rightly or wrongly, the ranger tab tells ME you have a attitude problem and I probably won't worry about getting to know you if my only contact is at an incident or exercise.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I did regular old ground team and my CAPC experience hasn't been ruined.

Oh, and my instructor was right there with me, teaching me the skills. It was hard for him to set up the projector in the woods though.

[Stonewall]

But don't prejudge me or any other Ranger until you know them.

I didn't pre-judge; I went and saw for msyelf.  And I know several HMRS graduates.  Most (not all) do have a certain attitude about them that screams elitist.  Silly whistles, ascots and belts.  Check those along with the attitude at the door and come back with a skillset to share, not brag about.

That said, I would still support any cadet going to HMRS, but I'll be the first to greet them upon their return 

[Gunner C]

For those of you not familiar with the HMRS uniform standards...

The Ranger Uniform

GAK!  Ugly!  Makes you look like an orange salad.  Whoever thought that up needs to see an eye doctor for a color vision test!

And they wonder why people laugh at CAP? 

[Flying Pig]

Why do we need all of the colors and ruffles and flourishes?  Just go to the school.  I could maybe see the arm patch, OK, throw 'em a bone.   But white belts and orange ascots?  What is required to be a Ranger Master Medic?
The issue I have with CAP sometimes is using terms that have other meanings elsewhere in SAR.  You show up with "ADVANCED RANGER MASTER MEDIC" on your shirt you better know whats up.

[RogueLeader]

As a Ranger Medic, What are you authorized to do on an acttual mission, other than basic first aid?

[Flying Pig]

Got this off the ol' Wiki pedia

Medic advancement
Field Medics have completed the basic Field Medic course, and hold certification in Adult CPR and Wilderness First Aid.[12]
Field Medic 1st Class is the typical medic assigned to a Ranger team. In addition to CPR and Wilderness First Aid, they have First Responder or Professional Rescuer qualifications. They have also completed the advanced field medic course.[12]
Senior Medics are Operational medical specialists. Although qualified to assist ground teams, Senior Medics typically support base operations or even multi-agency mission bases. Senior Medics must be at least 18 years of age, hold EMT-B qualifications or higher, and be well versed in several areas of advanced medical care. Senior Medics are awarded Red Scarves to wear with their uniform.[12]
Master Medic represent the leadership of the Medic Program, and are similar to Expert Rangers. They typically hold instructor ratings in multiple medical fields. In addition to the Red Scarf, Master Medics are awarded a Red Pistol belt. Only 21 people have become Master Medics since 1972.[12]

[arajca]

Got this off the ol' Wiki pedia

Medic advancement
Field Medics have completed the basic Field Medic course, and hold certification in Adult CPR and Wilderness First Aid.[12]
Field Medic 1st Class is the typical medic assigned to a Ranger team. In addition to CPR and Wilderness First Aid, they have First Responder or Professional Rescuer qualifications. They have also completed the advanced field medic course.[12]
Senior Medics are Operational medical specialists. Although qualified to assist ground teams, Senior Medics typically support base operations or even multi-agency mission bases. Senior Medics must be at least 18 years of age, hold EMT-B qualifications or higher, and be well versed in several areas of advanced medical care. Senior Medics are awarded Red Scarves to wear with their uniform.[12]
Master Medic represent the leadership of the Medic Program, and are similar to Expert Rangers. They typically hold instructor ratings in multiple medical fields. In addition to the Red Scarf, Master Medics are awarded a Red Pistol belt. Only 21 people have become Master Medics since 1972.[12]

Sounds fine. Now what can they really do per CAP regulations?

Hint:

a. Medical care within CAP is limited to emergency care, only (i.e., first aid and stabilization) within the training and qualifications of the person rendering such care, until such time that private professional or authorized military care can be obtained.

[Eclipse]

Same as the rest of us...

[Rodriguez]

Why do we need all of the colors and ruffles and flourishes?  Just go to the school.  I could maybe see the arm patch, OK, throw 'em a bone.   But white belts and orange ascots?  What is required to be a Ranger Master Medic?
The issue I have with CAP sometimes is using terms that have other meanings elsewhere in SAR.  You show up with "ADVANCED RANGER MASTER MEDIC" on your shirt you better know whats up.

As for the attitude, yea there are a few people in the Ranger program that take that tradition and abuse it and make it into something to brag about. But then again Ive met plenty of cadets from PJOC who take on an elitist attitude. I like most Rangers in CAP wear my Ranger parade items at Ranger activities when I'm serving as staff. At any other CAP activity I don't wear it, anyone who does is wrong but that doesn't mean the whole program is to blame.

We don't teach that attitude at hawk. As a matter of fact we teach our students that they are ambassadors to the program and that they have to represent it right.

[FW]

^An excellent "attitude".  As an NCSA, HMRS is a great place for a member to experience the PA countryside, learn something different and have some fun.  Thousands have been students and participated in traditions that are over 50 years old.  Yes, some of those traditions are strange but; that's "the mountain" for you.  I've witnessed a tremendous increase in professionalism of the staff over the last 10 years and have no question as to its continued existence.  I enjoy my "visits" every so often and, I feel welcomed and at home when I'm there.  I recommend the activity for anyone as an alternative to PJOC or Blue Beret.

[Flying Pig]

Why do we need all of the colors and ruffles and flourishes?  Just go to the school.  I could maybe see the arm patch, OK, throw 'em a bone.   But white belts and orange ascots?  What is required to be a Ranger Master Medic?
The issue I have with CAP sometimes is using terms that have other meanings elsewhere in SAR.  You show up with "ADVANCED RANGER MASTER MEDIC" on your shirt you better know whats up.

As for the attitude, yea there are a few people in the Ranger program that take that tradition and abuse it and make it into something to brag about. But then again Ive met plenty of cadets from PJOC who take on an elitist attitude. I like most Rangers in CAP wear my Ranger parade items at Ranger activities when I'm serving as staff. At any other CAP activity I don't wear it, anyone who does is wrong but that doesn't mean the whole program is to blame.

We don't teach that attitude at hawk. As a matter of fact we teach our students that they are ambassadors to the program and that they have to represent it right.

I didnt say anything about an attitude.  I was curious what a CAP Senior or Master Medic can do in CAP? So since I am an EMT, I can call myself an Senior Medic?  Lets face it.  Even in the "operations world"  EMTs really arent allowed to do much to begin with.  And the rating description says Senior Medics typically support base operations or even multi-agency mission bases.  So you sit in the First Aid hut during searches?  I mean, I get it.  Being an EMT, I put my skills to work on a limited basis at work probably once per week.  Having those skills on a GT is valuable and knowing how to employ them in a non-hospital setting is even better.

Let me put this out there.  I have NO issue whatsoever with Ranger School. I think its great.  I tried to go as a cadet, but Hawk being in PA and me being in CA, it just never worked out.  However, now that I am on the full time side of SAR, I've used some of my skills as as EMT, I've been a Tactical EMT on a SWAT Team and have used my EMT training, I can tell you titles mean something to the outside world.  With CAP showing up to a SAR and working with other SAR agencies, I think its time that Hawk took a look at its symbolism.  I mean C'mon?  First Aid and CPR card and your wearing a "RANGER MEDIC" badge?  EMT-B and your a "Senior Medic" and Master medic makes you a Hawk medic Instructor?  I see volunteers all the time who show up to SARs with patches from every 2 day SAR course they've attended. Generic EMT patches on their sleeves, CPR, First Aid patches all over, High Angle Rescue Tech patches from a 3 day rope course they paid 1 million dollars to attend.  They have so many patches they look like outlaw bikers.   Then you look at the guys who do it for a living and they have a name tag.  Something to think about. 

[JayT]

Wait wait wait Captain, are you saying the guy with the most patches doesn't win?

As an outsider who works EMS professionally, I can say that (and this goes to all CAP ES types), nobody outside of CAP knows what your patches mean, and even less care. Someone with a well maintained shirt, and boots that don't look like they just came out of the box will get more attentioned then someone with a 'Master Medic' patch on their shirt. Furthermore, if some didn't have a local qualification to back up their training, I'd be relutant to let them give me a hand unless I really needed it.

[Eclipse]

High Angle Rescue Tech patches from a 3 day rope course they paid 1 million dollars to attend.

Just as an FYI, my classes are only 1/2 a Mil - REGISTER TODAY!

[capmed101]

[/quote]
I didnt say anything about an attitude.  I was curious what a CAP Senior or Master Medic can do in CAP? So since I am an EMT, I can call myself an Senior Medic?  Lets face it.  Even in the "operations world"  EMTs really arent allowed to do much to begin with.  And the rating description says Senior Medics typically support base operations or even multi-agency mission bases.  So you sit in the First Aid hut during searches?  I mean, I get it.  Being an EMT, I put my skills to work on a limited basis at work probably once per week.  Having those skills on a GT is valuable and knowing how to employ them in a non-hospital setting is even better.

Let me put this out there.  I have NO issue whatsoever with Ranger School. I think its great.  I tried to go as a cadet, but Hawk being in PA and me being in CA, it just never worked out.  However, now that I am on the full time side of SAR, I've used some of my skills as as EMT, I've been a Tactical EMT on a SWAT Team and have used my EMT training, I can tell you titles mean something to the outside world.  With CAP showing up to a SAR and working with other SAR agencies, I think its time that Hawk took a look at its symbolism.  I mean C'mon?  First Aid and CPR card and your wearing a "RANGER MEDIC" badge?  EMT-B and your a "Senior Medic" and Master medic makes you a Hawk medic Instructor?  I see volunteers all the time who show up to SARs with patches from every 2 day SAR course they've attended. Generic EMT patches on their sleeves, CPR, First Aid patches all over, High Angle Rescue Tech patches from a 3 day rope course they paid 1 million dollars to attend.  They have so many patches they look like outlaw bikers.   Then you look at the guys who do it for a living and they have a name tag.  Something to think about.
[/quote]

Good points about the patches, what they mean and how they dont mean you can do what they say. Let me fill you in on the "Master Medic" role at HMRS.

The Master Medic serves as an instructor for the medic program at Hawk Mt. We plan the medical aspects of any events that may be going on at the training facility. That means that we know where choppers can land and when we can use them. That means we know how long it takes a BLS or ALS crew to arrive on base. That means we know that there are certified 1st Responders right down the street that can be at base with in 5 mins. We know all the hospitals in the area and they know us. As you can see by the job description, it says that the lowest qualification you can have is EMT-B with PHTLS. If you look at the Master Medic list on the HMRS website, there are only 23 of us, and some of them have passed away or are no longer in the program. At this time there may only be 10 Master Medics that are currently serving. What the list does not tell you is that those Medics are Doctors, PAs, EMT-Ps, Combat Medics, RNs, or some other medical field professional. If you see a Master Medic you can be sure that they know what they are talking about when it comes to emergency treatment of the sick and injured.

That said- CAP is not a paramedic organization and we do not treat critically injured people beyond the first aid level or what is neccesary in our scope of practice to prevent death and suffering. (basically what the regs say). Operationally, Senior and Master Medics do more than just treat people. Since our Scope is limited in CAP, we train to recognize hazards beyond what the ORM teaches. We train in field hygene and sanitation, to prevent our teams from becoming ill in the field. We serve as advisors to instruct the basic 1st aider on what to do if they find an injured person. Our job is preventitive, unlike paramedic organizations who pick up the pieces after an incident. We prepare teams to deploy into the field with knowledge that will keep them safe. That is what a Master or Senior Medic would be doing during a "real" mission

What it takes to be a Master Medic is dedication. Of course any one with a professional medical background wants to go into the field and save lives. However, we all know that CAP does not allow us to use most of our skills, no matter what kind of insurance you have, or how well you can do it. The new Medics at Hawk are trained in Advanced Wilderness First Aid, just like they do at NESA. As medics progress through the program, they learn more about the program, gather outside certs (even if they can not use them in CAP), and begin building a background in Emergency Care. That can carry them into a professional career in the medical field and eventually bring them back to the Medic Program at HMRS to instruct. It is the dedication to the program and inspiring young individuals to get interested in the medical field that makes you a Master Medic, not whether you can intubate or give meds.

I hope this clears up some of the misconceptions about Medics at HMRS. We are not out there to go against the regs and treat all kinds of illnesses, we are out there to prevent illnesses from occuring.

Sincerely,

RK
Master Medic#23
Expert Ranger #229