Budget cuts?

[Auxpilot]

The following was taken from the Dec BOG minutes:

Core CAP flying programs will be severely impacted.
Reductions from FY09 Levels
40% Reduction in Air Force Assigned Missions.
Training - 25% (Over one-third drop in flying hours)
Counterdrug - 88%
Cadet Orientation Flights - 53%
Operation Noble Eagle -100% (No FY10 ONE Requirement)
Reductions of this magnitude will reduce total flying by 20% or more, i.e., more than
20,000 hours. To drop this many hours may necessitate reducing the aircraft fleet
by more than 100 aircraft.

This is huge! The CD program all but dead, training cut by a third, COF's cut in half, 100 airplanes gone.

One flight over the Statue of Liberty could have funded the CD program for the year. Where are the priorities? That program saves the taxpayers big bucks as opposed to having the Guard or Police fly them in helicopters.

Is this a done deal?

[heliodoc]

IF it is

Should this be of any suprise?

Priorities in CAP?  Trying to be Everything

Like the organization...but things MAY need to change and 1AF may need to make one for us and we will have to like it.   

Now is the time everyone would be hoping DHS could / would pick us up, eh???

[N Harmon]

One flight over the Statue of Liberty could have funded the CD program for the year.

Let's nip this one right off. That flight was part of an existing VC-25 proficiency flight. Having part of it go over NYC did not add anything to the cost. And while the government has been known to be penny-wise and pound-foolish, this isn't one of those times.

As for the rest, I chalk it up to the present state of the economy. What this means is that we may need to begin looking at cheaper ways to train and maintain proficiency. For example, PC flight simulators could help with maintaining avionics proficiency. Especially when it comes to the G1000.

[Gunner C]

I haven't seen cuts like this since the days of James Earl Carter.  So much for being a cost-efficient force multiplier.  Unless congress intervenes, we're sunk.

[Eclipse]

Many of our missions are now assigned and funded by local agencies, not as AFAMs - too many in my opinion, but regardless.

We took a hit like everyone else with the "war tax" and now we have to tighten our belt even more.

CD is such a small factor in most states no one will even notice it missing.

[Gunner C]

We need to cultivate more customers.  But I won't hold my breath.

[Eclipse]

We need to cultivate more customers.  But I won't hold my breath.

That's a local responsibility - NHQ isn't going to do it for us.

[Larry Mangum]

Many of our missions are now assigned and funded by local agencies, not as AFAMs - too many in my opinion, but regardless.

We took a hit like everyone else with the "war tax" and now we have to tighten our belt even more.

CD is such a small factor in most states no one will even notice it missing.

In Washington state, CD accounted for about 900 hrs a year of funded flying out of the 2200 minimum hours the wing needs every year to justify the numbe rof aircraft it has.

[FW]

When we plan the next year's budget, we must plan using the figures given us.  For FY 2010, we're looking at about $6 million less.

In every year, so far, congress has given us our "plus ups".  It is not automatic but, there is no reason to expect any difference for 2010.  If we do receive the additional funding, the budget will be readjusted to reflect it.    More flying, more training and, no reduction of our fleet.

[Auxpilot]

One flight over the Statue of Liberty could have funded the CD program for the year.

Let's nip this one right off. That flight was part of an existing VC-25 proficiency flight. Having part of it go over NYC did not add anything to the cost. And while the government has been known to be penny-wise and pound-foolish, this isn't one of those times.

You are 100% correct, the flight was part of training and I am not one to use that type of tatic to made the DOD look bad. I was only using that to place into perspective how small our CD budget is compared to the benefit of having it in place. Cutting one VC-25 proficiency flight would not impact operations much. Cutting 88% of our CD budget kills an entire program. My point was that our Govt drops more change in the gutter than it costs to run this program.

[Auxpilot]

CD is such a small factor in most states no one will even notice it missing.

Hold on there Cowboy - "no one will even notice." Maybe it's time to get out a little and see what is going on before you fire off that six shooter of yours.

In my state it is huge, in fact it represents more hours than any other mission, 7 or 8 times more than SAR. Not to mention the fact that it is a VERY successful mission with several finds a week.

CD is hard work, long flights, hot weather, bumpy and boring but if you want to measure the worth of CAP, dollar for dollar CD work is one of the most cost effective missions we fly.

[sparks]

Missions are variable. Some wings haven't had a CD/CN mission for years. Others apparently still have that mission. I can only speak for ones I know about. That mission has been gone for many years (not by our choice) so the budget cuts that will really hurt non-CN/CD wings  are training and "O" flights.

[Eclipse]

CD is such a small factor in most states no one will even notice it missing.

Hold on there Cowboy - "no one will even notice." Maybe it's time to get out a little and see what is going on before you fire off that six shooter of yours.

In my state it is huge, in fact it represents more hours than any other mission, 7 or 8 times more than SAR. Not to mention the fact that it is a VERY successful mission with several finds a week.

CD is hard work, long flights, hot weather, bumpy and boring but if you want to measure the worth of CAP, dollar for dollar CD work is one of the most cost effective missions we fly.

I'm sorry, did the words "most states" escape your read?

Yes, in some states, especially those with larger than normal "CD" issues to start with, they are doing a lot of hours.  In other states they do border or coastal patrol.

And in others they don't do enough of that for it to be on the radar.

Also, just as a talking point, who is actually paying for your CD missions?  Because in many states, they are paid for, or reimbursed by, some other agency than the USAF.

Am I saying this won't cause issues in some states? No, but its also not chicken little time.

On the ES side I've been involved in several multi-day activities this year, including a week spent in KY with full RON and per-diem, and none of them were AFAMS.

[Auxpilot]

CD is such a small factor in most states no one will even notice it missing.

Hold on there Cowboy - "no one will even notice." Maybe it's time to get out a little and see what is going on before you fire off that six shooter of yours.

In my state it is huge, in fact it represents more hours than any other mission, 7 or 8 times more than SAR. Not to mention the fact that it is a VERY successful mission with several finds a week.

CD is hard work, long flights, hot weather, bumpy and boring but if you want to measure the worth of CAP, dollar for dollar CD work is one of the most cost effective missions we fly.

I'm sorry, did the words "most states" escape your read?

Yes, in some states, especially those with larger than normal "CD" issues to start with, they are doing a lot of hours.  In other states they do border or coastal patrol.

And in others they don't do enough of that for it to be on the radar.

Also, just as a talking point, who is actually paying for your CD missions?  Because in many states, they are paid for, or reimbursed by, some other agency than the USAF.

Am I saying this won't cause issues in some states? No, but its also not chicken little time.

On the ES side I've been involved in several multi-day activities this year, including a week spent in KY with full RON and per-diem, and none of them were AFAMS.

A proposed cut of almost $400,000 translates to the neighborhood of 6,000 hours of flying. There has got to be more that a couple states flying that many sorties. That number is not reflective of State reimbursed missions, they appear to be off budget in this case.

It does not matter how many states are doing them, a number that large can't be dismissed as trivial, we lose 30 airplanes for those hours alone.  Bigger picture - we lose another major mission that your RON in KY won't replace.

According to the 2008 report to Congress we took over $1,000,000,000 dollars worth of dope off the streets. Is that not worth funding or does the "change" everyone voted for include our kids smoking that much more?

No it's not chicken little time, but it is time to deal with this before it is too late to turn it around. That means folks talking to their representitives, most of whom don't have a clue what we do, and letting them know that we are an effective cost multiplier.

[Spike]

This is nothing compared to some Wings losing all of their State Appropriations.

When a state gets hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for the past 10 years, and now gets nothing.......that is a real wake up call. 

[bosshawk]

If I recall correctly(I usually don't), this sort of draconian cut is a usual deal in the CAP budget.  However, Congress gets into the act and restores much of what is being cut.  CD is certainly one of those aspects of the program which normally gets a lot of money restored.

In CA, we typically fly about 2200 hours of CD per year, which amounts to about 33% of the total flying hours for CAP in CA.  That isn't peanuts and I can't imagine our major customers sitting idly by and watching this go away.  Of course, I am prejudiced.

As I have mentioned previously, CAWG has more screened CD people than some states have total membership.  You might say that we are an active CD state.

[Spike]

As I have mentioned previously, CAWG has more screened CD people than some states have total membership.  You might say that we are an active CD state.

That makes perfect sense since many drugs are brought into and made in California?  Thought I heard CA was the # 2 importer and # 1 producer of METH in the dryer lands outlying metro centers.  That may have changed. Washington State produces METH in such quantity now.   

[wingnut55]

Gee what are you saying about the members of CAWG   

Maybe we need to reduce the aircraft by 100, I say it was a huge mistake to alienate the member owned aircraft group.

member owned aircraft are the smart way to go, but you say: 'We cannot do the mission because we don't have a 500,000 glass cockpit 182.??

I was reading that one 206 cost 12,000 for maintenance and that was not for an overhaul. We are getting eaten up by 50 and 100 hour mandates.   

(Don't yell about safety, that is not my point)

At the current per hour actual cost of some of the planes we could be flying member owned helicopters. Wow, lets bring back the CAP pararescue!!

get rid of the 100 most costliest aircraft, we have some squadrons that fly 100 hours a year??? go back to member owned aircraft in those locations, move them to high usage high time aircraft areas. Sorry guys we are not a high priced aero-club at those prices.

100 hours and 2,500 for annual, 50 hours, 100hrs, insurance. what is that?  $6,000 or $8,000 per year??

we could be getting 500 to 800 hours of flight time for  every100 hours of CAP owned airplane flight time for the American taxpayer.

My numbers may be off by 50% but who cares. It is a bad message to see all these airplanes collecting dust. Sell 100 of them off to upgrade the rest and pay for a CAP rebirth.

[PHall]

100 airplanes gone.

That's a rather bold statement, you got anything to back that up?

[wingnut55]

look at the numbers I am not Wikipedia, ok say 150 hours?