Composite Squadrons - who does the C/CC report to?

[ladyreferee]

I think it is a bit confusing on CAPR 20-1.  With the organizational charts, it doesn't really show where the cadet program comes in on a composite squadron - who is the Cadet Commander responsible to?
   We have a Deputy Commander of Cadets - we have a Deputy Commander of Seniors - does the C/CC, who is appointed by the Squadron Commander report to the Squadron Commander or the Deputy Commander of Cadets?
 

[Matt]

the Cadet Commander should be reporting to your Dep. Commander for Cadets.

[Bluelakes 13]

the Cadet Commander should be reporting to your Dep. Commander for Cadets.

Exactly.  And if that position is not filled, then it would be the CC.

[arajca]

A composite squadron uses the org charts of the senior squadron and cadet squadron. The cadet structure falls under the Deupty Commander in a caet squadron so it would fall under the Deupty Commander for Cadets in a composite squadron.

[ladyreferee]

the Cadet Commander should be reporting to your Dep. Commander for Cadets.

Exactly.  And if that position is not filled, then it would be the CC.

Then who is the CC? I thought that was the Cadet Commander.

[Pylon]

the Cadet Commander should be reporting to your Dep. Commander for Cadets.

Exactly.  And if that position is not filled, then it would be the CC.

Then who is the CC? I thought that was the Cadet Commander.

The Cadet Commander is abbreviated as C/CC.  Just like all other cadet grades, cadet position abbreviations are traditionally prefaced with the "C/."

So, the CC is your Squadron Commander, and the C/CC is the Cadet Commander.  Same abbreviation, just adding the "C/" preface. 

[ncc1912]

the Cadet Commander should be reporting to your Dep. Commander for Cadets.

Exactly.  And if that position is not filled, then it would be the CC.

Then who is the CC? I thought that was the Cadet Commander.

The Cadet Commander is abbreviated as C/CC.  Just like all other cadet grades, cadet position abbreviations are traditionally prefaced with the "C/."

So, the CC is your Squadron Commander, and the C/CC is the Cadet Commander.  Same abbreviation, just adding the "C/" preface. 

FYI:

Just to clarify further (though it has become a little off-subject):  CC is an office symbol denoting "commander-in-chief" at any level of command, not just the squadron level.  Hence "CC".  Furthermore, the same goes for "CV", "commander-in-vice" and so on.  The term "deputy commander" is only used if there are two or more individuals sharing the same level of responsibility under a given commander and neither holds authority over the other.  If a commander wishes to place one of his/her deputies in a position "higher" than the other for reasons of order of command succession, then the term "chief deputy commander" could be loosely used.

[BlueLakes1]

FYI:

Just to clarify further (though it has become a little off-subject):  CC is an office symbol denoting "commander-in-chief" at any level of command, not just the squadron level.  Hence "CC".  Furthermore, the same goes for "CV", "commander-in-vice" and so on.  The term "deputy commander" is only used if there are two or more individuals sharing the same level of responsibility under a given commander and neither holds authority over the other.  If a commander wishes to place one of his/her deputies in a position "higher" than the other for reasons of order of command succession, then the term "chief deputy commander" could be loosely used.

That's not entirely correct, at least on the CAP side of the house. CAPR 20-1 repeatedly refers to "Deputy Commanders" for Groups and Squadrons, both in the organization graphics and in the job descriptions for Group and Squadron CCs (at the very end, where it says the job description applies to the Deputy Commander as well as the CC). Mind you, the graphics for Groups, Cadet and Senior Squadrons only show one Deputy Commander, while the Composite Squadron one shows the DCC and DCS positions seperately. Wings and above are the only levels that have Vice Commanders.

[flyguy06]

The Deputy for Cadets is the Senior Member responsible to the Squadron Comander for the running of the cadet unit in the Squadron

[mmouw]

Does the DCC answer to the DCS or the CC?

[shorning]

Does the DCC answer to the DCS or the CC?

Both deputy commanders report to the squadron commander.  Look at the diagrams in 20-1.  You don't have a "deputy to the deputy".

[Eclipse]

"Commander in Chief" is "CINC".

"CC" is "Component Commander.

[alexalvarez]

Boy, I learn something new everyday from CAP TAlK.  Everybody keep up the good work.

[flyguy06]

It would probably help if people wouldnt use terms like CC and CV in conversation. These are office symbols, but because we dont want to type out Commander, we abbreviate and say CC which understandably confuses people.

I am a Deputy for Cadets and a young one at that and I get that all the time that peole think the Deputy for Seniors out ranks me. He doesnt. We are equal.

[MIKE]

I am a Deputy for Cadets and a young one at that and I get that all the time that peole think the Deputy for Seniors out ranks me. He doesnt. We are equal.

What happens when the Commander gets dropped by a sniper or something?  Do the deputies thumb wrestle or play rock, paper, scissors? 

[Pylon]

What happens when the Commander gets dropped by a sniper or something?  Do the deputies thumb wrestle or play rock, paper, scissors?  

Hopefully he knows about tiger claw and pen missle, too...   

[MIKE]

What happens when the Commander gets dropped by a sniper or something?  Do the deputies thumb wrestle or play rock, paper, scissors?  

Hopefully he knows about tiger claw and pen missle, too...   

Pen missile pwns all. 

[Pylon]

What happens when the Commander gets dropped by a sniper or something?  Do the deputies thumb wrestle or play rock, paper, scissors?  

Hopefully he knows about tiger claw and pen missle, too...   

Pen missile pwns all. 

You probably don't even know about pen missle.

Ahem... sorry for the topic drift.  Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[Eclipse]

Does the DCC answer to the DCS or the CC?

Deputy Commander for Cadets = CDC

Deputy Commander for Seniors = CDS

[Pylon]

Does the DCC answer to the DCS or the CC?

Deputy Commander for Cadets = CDC

Deputy Commander for Seniors = CDS

Isn't Deputy Commander for Cadets = CDCP  ?   

[Eclipse]

No.

DCP = Director of Cadet Programs a Group or Wing function.
There is no "CDCP"

[MIKE]

Apparently the CAPF 66 abbreviates Deputy Commander of Cadets as DCC, but I personally prefer to use CDC even though use of functional address symbols is technically improper.

[Eclipse]

CDC / CDS is how it is abbreviated in the WMU, though honestly if it turned out they made that up, it wouldn't surprise me.

To muddy things further, the new alignment of office symbols makes the DOK the DC.

Great.

So I am going to start refereing to these positions by their number, A2, etc.

[shorning]

Does the DCC answer to the DCS or the CC?

Deputy Commander for Cadets = CDC

Deputy Commander for Seniors = CDS

Isn't Deputy Commander for Cadets = CDCP  ?   

What's the reg say?  If it doesn't specify, we can make things up all day long and it really doesn't matter.

[shorning]

To muddy things further, the new alignment of office symbols makes the DOK the DC.

In other words, they finally changed it back to what it used to be...

[Nick]

No.

DCP = Director of Cadet Programs a Group or Wing function.
There is no "CDCP"

Eh, DCP is at the wing level.  Groups don't get directors -- they're cadet programs officers.

[Pylon]

No.

DCP = Director of Cadet Programs a Group or Wing function.
There is no "CDCP"

Eh, DCP is at the wing level.  Groups don't get directors -- they're cadet programs officers.

Bingo.  Hence my signature line.  I don't direct. 

[Nick]

Bingo.  Hence my signature line.  I don't direct. 

Yeah, being a wing ADCP and a group CPO, I've always been very clear on that one.

[shorning]

No.

DCP = Director of Cadet Programs a Group or Wing function.
There is no "CDCP"

Eh, DCP is at the wing level.  Groups don't get directors -- they're cadet programs officers.

Bingo.  Hence my signature line.  I don't direct. 

When I was a DCP, I told the squadrons in the wing that I wasn't there to run the cadet program for them.  My job was to manage wing-level stuff, guide the overall program in the wing, and provide support to their programs.  Granted, my wing was small.  That may not work for everyone, but I think for a small wing with units widely separated geographically, it worked pretty well.  I wish I had been able to stay in that job longer.

[RogueLeader]

"Commander in Chief" is "CINC".

"CC" is "Component Commander.

oh I thought it was Company Commander.

[lordmonar]

"Commander in Chief" is "CINC".

"CC" is "Component Commander.

oh I thought it was Company Commander.

The USAF does not have any "companies".  CC mean commander.

[RogueLeader]

"Commander in Chief" is "CINC".

"CC" is "Component Commander.

oh I thought it was Company Commander.

The USAF does not have any "companies".  CC mean commander.

i know, I was transfereing language that I thought the Army used.

[Psicorp]

"Commander in Chief" is "CINC".

"CC" is "Component Commander.

oh I thought it was Company Commander.

Only when he/she is wearing Class A's 

[ZigZag911]

It would probably help if people wouldnt use terms like CC and CV in conversation. These are office symbols, but because we dont want to type out Commander, we abbreviate and say CC which understandably confuses people.

I am a Deputy for Cadets and a young one at that and I get that all the time that peole think the Deputy for Seniors out ranks me. He doesnt. We are equal.

Actually the squadron commander determines the 'order of succession'; in most units, in my experience, the DCS has been 'first deputy' (takes command in absence of CC).

You are right, though, that in the normal course of business you have equal authority in your individual areas of responsibility (and no direct authority over the other area, ordinarily)

[DNall]

Comment on a two year old thread, sure no problem...
First, 20-1 is 15 years out of date & the org doesn't officially use the officer symbols published there. CDC & CDS are the right symbols, currently, but give it five minutes & a NB mtg & I'm sure you can get it changed & shiny multi-colored too.

The reason CDS tends to take charge when the CC is gone is cause they already command all the whinny adults, the CDC still retains control over the cadets & the only one who experiences any wierdness is the CDC, otherwise it's business as usual. The CDC doesn't work for the CDS though & the CDS would get fired if they tried to significantly change the cadet program or remove teh CDC while the CC is gone.

By the way, CC (component commander) is commanly used in CAP to mean commander, but in the military it refers to a command level that has UCMJ authority over subordinates. In the Army for example that is a Company CC, but not a Platon Leader (see the difference there).

[JohnKachenmeister]

It would probably help if people wouldnt use terms like CC and CV in conversation. These are office symbols, but because we dont want to type out Commander, we abbreviate and say CC which understandably confuses people.

I am a Deputy for Cadets and a young one at that and I get that all the time that peole think the Deputy for Seniors out ranks me. He doesnt. We are equal.

Actually the squadron commander determines the 'order of succession'; in most units, in my experience, the DCS has been 'first deputy' (takes command in absence of CC).

You are right, though, that in the normal course of business you have equal authority in your individual areas of responsibility (and no direct authority over the other area, ordinarily)

And in the absence of a designated successor, the senior of the two deputy commanders acts as commander until relieved.

[Hoser]

The C/CC reports to whoever the Squadron Commander says he/she does. The structures of Squadrons in the regs are more like guidlines than actual rules. In my squadron the C/CC reports to the DCC. Unless the sun quits rising in the east my cadets know the buck stops there.

[ZigZag911]

The C/CC reports to whoever the Squadron Commander says he/she does. The structures of Squadrons in the regs are more like guidlines than actual rules. In my squadron the C/CC reports to the DCC. Unless the sun quits rising in the east my cadets know the buck stops there.

While you are technically correct, why even have a DCC if the sqdn CC is going to have the Cadet CC as a direct report?

[Capt Rivera]

In my experience    CDC = Career Development Course, Just thought I'd add to the confusion.

[DNall]

I didn't make these office symbols or ever claim CAP had any common sense or ability to follow the leader, that's just what it is.

[jimmydeanno]

In my experience    CDC = Career Development Course, Just thought I'd add to the confusion.

Child Development Center?
Child Detention Center?

[RogueLeader]

Corprate Detention Center

[mikeylikey]

Surely CDC stands for CUBAN DETENTION CENTER!  Linky

I think that is were we are getting all our uniform ideas from as well. 

Fixed link - MIKE

[SAR-EMT1]

No.

DCP = Director of Cadet Programs a Group or Wing function.
There is no "CDCP"

CDCP- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, HQ Atlanta, GA
- somehow the media always leaves out the "P"

back tho your regular thread...