Rewarding AF recruiters for recruiting CAP members

[O-Rex]

I may be digressing a bit here, but do any of you use your local recruiters as a resource of any kind, for anything from use of facilities, or even a few gee-gaws as giveaways to cadets?

I would think that the exposure would be worth their effort.

[DNall]

If someone turns up DQ'd from the AF, it may be criminal (too many tickets) or medical, which would not preclude them from CAP, and I don't really want them referring that person to CAP. I really think CAP members SHOULD meet the same standards to enlist... and listen, having just done a commissioning pysical a few days ago, let me tell you it's almost impossible to fail. If you do fal, there's a good reason for it & that should probably preclude you from CAP for all the same reasons.

I get a recruiter from every service (minus CG) in once a year, at least one per quarter, and try to give AF a shot once a quarter if they're willing to take it. I also have service academy admissions liaison officers in once a year, and try to get cadets from a couple major universities in when I can (once every other year usually). My primary focus is exposure & familiarizing cadets with their opportunities. At the same time it networks & builds relationships with each of those orgs that ultimately benefit my people if they choose to go that route.

I do get some free crap, as you'd expect, but I don't get any meassurable service from any of the above cause they frankly have very little to nothing to offer me & that's about what I expect from them.

I think it'd be great if we did more to aid AF recruiters, and of course we'd love to have them aid us, but really I think we're all looking for ways to aid the military in more operational roles. Ultimately CAP is a feeder of the military, the AF recruiters are not there to feed CAP.

[Eagle400]

If someone turns up DQ'd from the AF, it may be criminal (too many tickets) or medical, which would not preclude them from CAP, and I don't really want them referring that person to CAP.

Well, I can understand not wanting to refer someone who has a criminal record.  That kind of thing will preclude someone from CAP.  However, medical disqualification is a completely different story. 

I really think CAP members SHOULD meet the same standards to enlist...

Why?  The Coast Guard Auxiliary does not require its members to meet enlistment standards.  Why should CAP?  CAP members are not airmen - they are civilians who volunteer their time in service to their country, just like Coast Guard auxiliarists. 

Requiring CAP members to meet enlistment standards would cost the organization some members.  That would get rid of everyone with Asthma, Cancer, Diabetes, and other conditions of the like.  This would include 'valuable' members.   

and listen, having just done a commissioning pysical a few days ago, let me tell you it's almost impossible to fail. If you do fal, there's a good reason for it & that should probably preclude you from CAP for all the same reasons.

I disagree.  Again, CAP members are not (and should not) be held to enlistment standards.   

Ultimately CAP is a feeder of the military, the AF recruiters are not there to feed CAP.

I agree.  All I'm asking is that every Air Force recruiter know about CAP so those who are medically disqualified can be referred to CAP.  It's not that much to ask.       

[RiverAux]

I really think CAP members SHOULD meet the same standards to enlist

Well, I guess you've just eliminated about 90% of CAP's current members as the vast majority of senior members are too old to enlist and the vast majority of cadets are too young to enlist, never mind meeting physical standards that are not at all necessary for CAP to accomplish its mission. 

[DNall]

Don't be so literal River, you know very well what I meant. Clearly I was not refering to age/ht/wt.

I understand we're equal opportunity & all that, but operationally we do missions that are physically demanding, moreso in fact than most military jobs. You may have noticed the people we draw whose military skills are most transferable to our work are Rangers & SF types. It's true that there other things & people don't HAVE to do ES, but then neither can we prohibit them from it while complying with regs. There should be a legitimate physical capability standard, and I think if you built one you'd find it very near an enlistment physical.... which is pretty much turn your head & cough, okay you're qualified.

Anyway, recruiters need to focus on their own duties for the AF. I do think it'd be benefitial to have a familiarization with CAP in thier training program, and I do think it'd be nice to encourage local relationships, but realistically they can't help you much, and you shouldn't look to them for anything like that. You need to have your own recruiting officer out getting people to join your unit. If you want to make a training program for that, or brainstorm some ideas on how to make it work logisitcally, well that's proabbly a more useful conversation.

[RiverAux]

There is a vast difference between legitimate physical standards directly related to your CAP job duties, such as will be required at some point under the new national standards and the physical standards required to enlist in the US military, some of which were pointed out in prior posts.

For example, I have very bad eyesight and even though it is correctable to 20/20 I was not allowed to enlist due to the amount of correction necessary to get to 20/20.  This makes perfect sense for military members -- after all, if I lost my glasses in combat I would be a danger to myself and others.  However, this is not a factor in CAP operations.  Should I not be in CAP? 

I know you're fairly young and based on the "turn your head and cough" description of your physical you probably answered "no" to a dozens and dozens of questions about whether you had various medical conditions.  I doubt that you'll find very many of our senior members over 40 years of age that probably don't have at least 1 medical condition that would preclude their enlistment into the military. 

So, while I'm on board for requiring physical tests for CAP members related to the duty they're going to perform, I think you're vastly underestimating the potential impact on CAP membership (for no real benefit) of requiring new members meet military enlistment standards. 

[Major Carrales]

As I see it everyone in CAP graviates to the job to which they are best suited based on physical prowess, expertise and interest.

Younger, more physically capabile, types tend to be active in the Groud element.  Those that like radios and want to learn to operated them or continue to, do there. 

There are also those simply dedicated to service.  Sometimes older, sometimes not; these are the type that say: "I want to do something...assign me!" or "WOW!!! The Civil Air Patrol exists...that is the coolest thing.  WHERE DO I SIGN!"

If there were ever to be strict guidelines, I think they would have to be self-imposed and organized within the CAP.  The "SENIOR ENCAMPMENTS," "GSAR Schools" and the like.  A good project for people like Dennis to organize of the willing.  Allowing others to do the same in their field.

[DNall]

You may not be able to fly, but you can enlist with EXTREMELY bad vision as long as it's correctable. And PRK, etc are acceptable too, including for flight (with some limits). I've passed a physical & trained witha broken leg. It's just not that big a deal. It's no more invasive than your standard medical checkup, & driver's eye test. Everything is waiverable, including chronic conditions & ongoing medication needs. You may need a consult and/or a waiver, but very few people are turned away.

I understand and agree that the NIMS standard PFT should be in place for applicable ES quals. I think there also ought to be a minimum physical/medical standard for membership, and that it ought to be in the range of what we expect from an entry level GTM or aircrew member. That makes everyone basically qualified to train & that's what we need to be focused on.

[RiverAux]

It's no more invasive than your standard medical checkup, & driver's eye test

Are you KIDDING me??  yeah, they're not making you take the astronaut physical fitness tests, but please take a look at the almost endless list of things that can disqualify you.

Waivers?  Depends on exactly how bad they need people.  Right now I'm betting that the AF (cutting down on people) is not granting many while the Army and Marines (expanding) aren't being quite as strict. 

[Al Sayre]

I know for a fact that CAP has some blind radio operators, and amputee's who serve in the Cadet Program.  Even someone who is wheelchair bound could make a contribution as a Mission Staff Assistant, Mission Chaplain, Finance and Admin Section Chief, Mission Radio Operator or Communications Unit Leader.  Why would we exclude these people?  Hell, I've got an 80% service connected disability, and that hasn't stopped me from flying, or doing moderate Ground Team work.  Just last week I finished my IC3 quals, but I certainly can't meet military enlistment standards.  Do you propose that I shouldn't be allowed to participate?

[Major Carrales]

CAP gets its collevtive "power" from people who are volunteers and driven by the passion inherent in the "need to serve."  All contributions, be they as small as a person operating a radio at a staging area or mission base while others contribute piloting skills or ground team expertise, are equal in my eye.

Everyone in their place working as a team of volunteer accomplish the mission, that has been part of CAP since day ONE.  Its Citizen Volunteer Airmen working together for their Community, State and Nation.

Those that lose sight of that are forever frustrated by CAP.

[FARRIER]

If someone turns up DQ'd from the AF, it may be criminal (too many tickets) or medical, which would not preclude them from CAP, and I don't really want them referring that person to CAP. I really think CAP members SHOULD meet the same standards to enlist...

Dennis, you need to do you homework here. A person denied enlistment due to flat feet. There is not one thing physically wrong with that person. I see the military's reason behind it. But reasons for keeping them out of CAP you have to be kidding me. 

[mikeylikey]

If someone turns up DQ'd from the AF, it may be criminal (too many tickets) or medical, which would not preclude them from CAP, and I don't really want them referring that person to CAP. I really think CAP members SHOULD meet the same standards to enlist...

Dennis, you need to do you homework here. A person denied enlistment due to flat feet. There is not one thing physically wrong with that person. I see the military's reason behind it. But reasons for keeping them out of CAP you have to be kidding me. 

Agreed!  CAP has always been a front runner allowing those with a disability to serve their community.

[Psicorp]

I know for a fact that CAP has some blind radio operators, and amputee's who serve in the Cadet Program.  Even someone who is wheelchair bound could make a contribution as a Mission Staff Assistant, Mission Chaplain, Finance and Admin Section Chief, Mission Radio Operator or Communications Unit Leader.  Why would we exclude these people?  Hell, I've got an 80% service connected disability, and that hasn't stopped me from flying, or doing moderate Ground Team work.  Just last week I finished my IC3 quals, but I certainly can't meet military enlistment standards.  Do you propose that I shouldn't be allowed to participate?

I agree absolutely.  We're all volunteers and there is always something that needs to be done.  I'm finding out that Mission Base staff is the one area where there is always a need for personnel, and being short staffed makes for a very long weekend for a handfull of people.