Revoking a specality rating

[IceNine]

As I review the member records throughout my group I am noticing that there are folks that have Specialty ratings in things they are not qualified to have. 

Is there a way in e-services to delete or downgrade these specialties to the proper levels?

[RiverAux]

Before I'd even start thinking that I would first assume that the member records are incomplete, not that people are unqualified.  If someone doesn't have the right documentation to back it up, I'd ask them to submit copies of the appropriate paperwork. 

Even if they can't turn up the appropriate backup paperwork, as long as there is a something from the appropriate commander approving that status, I would assume that the paperwork was in order at the time.  If you try to revoke it now you're just going to cause a whole lot of hassle.  Are you going to demote them also? 

[IceNine]

The issues I am looking at are grossly out of order.

Things like Staff service at different echelons

Required course completion (ie. Inland sar planner for ES, TLC for CP, etc.)

Not completing require PD levels.

And I understand all of the issues that you have presented, I am trying to fix issues that are prevalent before they come up on things like our SUI next year. 

[Camas]

Is there a way in e-services to delete or downgrade these specialties to the proper levels?

A copy of the Professional Development Report from CAPWatch in e-services should be printed out for the unit.  Strike out the qualification in red; have the unit commander sign it and then forward it to National.  This is how we used to enter specialty track qualifications before the e-services online application for senior member specialty tracks was available.  See if that works.

As far as ES qualifications go I would imagine that the commander could simply go into OpsQuals and into the "suspension" module and suspense the member for the specific ES task or achievement.

But, as mentioned, be very sure of what you're doing.

[arajca]

Do the specialty ratings pre-date the courses? For example, a CP Senior or Master rating earned 4 or more years ago won't have TLC because is wasn't around.

Were is Inland SAR Planner required for ES?

[Eclipse]

I have to assume we are talking about tracks awarded by a former CC or regime.  As others have said, tread lightly.

If we're talking about legitimate errata, these can be corrected with a simple memo to NHQ with the details.
By errata I mean legitimate mistakes that a member would not contest (master rating to someone who just walked in the door, wrong rating clicked, etc.).

If we're talking about ratings that a person would protest losing, that's another story.  The ultimate answer is that the unit CC, or higher echelon is responsible for what is a subjective decision as to whether a member has completed the requirements for a given rating.  As you probably know, for years specialty tracks were awarded via a hardcopy note on the MML sent in monthly, and while many unit CC's hold members to the letter of the reg, many others do / did not.

If you start yanking ratings on members based on your disagreement with the SOP of previous commanders or upper echelons, you're potentially opening a kettle of fish that could cause unintended consequences. For example, if a member used Senior CPO for Major, and you yank that, do you demote them as well? And is it really worth the wailing and gnashing of teeth that will ensue?

In general the best we can do is hold people to the proper standard going forward and just recognize the mistakes of those who went before us.

The issues I am looking at are grossly out of order.
Things like Staff service at different echelons

Some commanders require members be posted officially in the staff position, others simply allow them to serve as unofficial assistants, or to complete the knowledge requirements and just be "active" in a related activity (i.e. an ES asset, cadet activities, etc. )

Required course completion (ie. Inland sar planner for ES, TLC for CP, etc.)

Its not unusual for a commander at a higher echelon to decide a member is more than competent in a specialty, decide a test is no longer valid (i.e. the ES test), or a requirement was added after a member had completed the rating but the paperwork was not filed in time (i.e. CPO + TLC).  If a CC decides that a member effectively completed the rating before the new requirement, well, that's his discretion.

Inland SAR is a good example, its not offered on a regular basis in every area, and when it is its generally on a 2-year+ rotation per wing (or even region).  Should an otherwise committed, involved, active member, who knows the curriculum, be held back for promotion for years because they can't make it to a single class that they might be able to teach?  Don't know, but its certainly open for debate.

Remember, too, that we are not that far from a time when the "SQTR" for Mission Scanner was a business-card sized document, and in many cases "1-ride meant your'e a trainee, 2 meant you're rated", and the specialty tracks were treated in a similar manner.

The fact that eServices does not do pre-requisites checks before a specialty track can be awarded points to the subjective nature of these ratings. 

I'm certainly not saying I necessarily agree with all the reasoning, and I corrected a number of errata when I took over a unit, but I was also aware of many "seasoned" members who were likely "massaged" into their rating(s), and it just wasn't worth the gnashing to raise the issue.

[IceNine]

First of all, I understand everything you are all asking me, I was simply asking if the applications on e-services provide the abilities to perform these functions.  I can correct these issues through paper but was hoping I wouldn't have to.

So, no these ratings were not earned under an old version of the pamphlets, no they do not predate the courses, no they did not complete what is required for award of the ratings, Yes I have presented all parties with the tools they need to complete these specialties "again", and I am working on revoking the ones that people are choosing not to properly finish, I will not be revoking the ones that members are going to re-complete or update to be compliant with current regs. I simply worked with them to develop an acceptable time line for completion of these requirements.

Were is Inland SAR Planner required for ES?

CAPP 213 Page 6 second from the bottom (it won't let me copy and paste)

Basically says for the Master rating in ES you need Inland SAR, Search Management, or NHQ approved ES School.

I chose to use just one portion of this section as an example... 

[Eclipse]

Rather then go deeper into the minutia - I have to assume you've already addressed this, I'll just ask in general, how did they get the ratings?  Pencil-ed by a previous CC?

[IceNine]

Agreed, and accounted for... I am working on exactly the type of errata you speak of, for instance I have one member who has 8 Master ratings and agrees that she can perform duties in tops 4 of those positions, and most not as a "master" 

There was an issue of a gigantic rubber stamp by a rogue squadron PDO, several years ago, that needs to be un-stamped.

[Tim Medeiros]

Should be able to overwrite prior ratings as there is only one record per specialty track per person, which is why dates of prior ratings are not tracked right now (ie you can't see the date of the tech rating if the senior rating is posted).

With that said, ensure that the dates do not predate current criteria, ie CP isnt before 2003 which is when TLC became a requirement.

[afgeo4]

First of all, I understand everything you are all asking me, I was simply asking if the applications on e-services provide the abilities to perform these functions.  I can correct these issues through paper but was hoping I wouldn't have to.

So, no these ratings were not earned under an old version of the pamphlets, no they do not predate the courses, no they did not complete what is required for award of the ratings, Yes I have presented all parties with the tools they need to complete these specialties "again", and I am working on revoking the ones that people are choosing not to properly finish, I will not be revoking the ones that members are going to re-complete or update to be compliant with current regs. I simply worked with them to develop an acceptable time line for completion of these requirements.

Were is Inland SAR Planner required for ES?

CAPP 213 Page 6 second from the bottom (it won't let me copy and paste)

Basically says for the Master rating in ES you need Inland SAR, Search Management, or NHQ approved ES School.

I chose to use just one portion of this section as an example... 

Make sure the date for that Pamphlet predates the person's issue of rating. Don't forget, the member could have qualified for the rating before that specific requirement was a requirement.

For example, I received my Technician's rating in CP before the online exam and new rating requirements came about, but my Senior rating is being done according to new specifications.

[ColonelJack]

Reading all this has me quaking a bit ...

You see, many of you know that I am (slowly) getting my act together to rejoin CAP in the very near future.  I'm getting my kit of uniforms and gear together, blowing the dust off my 12-year-old personnel folder, gathering up my certificates for Levels II through V, etc.

At the time I retired (1996), I held a senior observer rating (which I currently do not plan to use and/or activate -- health issues make flying less than a good idea) and Master ratings in AE, Cadet Program, PAO, Admin, and Personnel.  Having read through the available online publications, I see that all of my ratings are woefully out of date -- and those suckers took a lot of hard work and a long time to earn.

I shudder at the thought of having to go through all of that again to get myself "current" when I rejoin.  Since it's been 12 years, I doubt I will be allowed to "grandfather" the ratings -- and I'm not talking about wearing the bling, mark you.  I want to actually do the job.  So I will have to go through all that again ... heavy, heavy sigh.

At least I don't have to go through professional development again.  (Or ... do I?)  I know I will have to re-take Level I and CPPT and all that associated stuff.  (There ought to be a triangle clasp for my membership ribbon for doing Level I twice.    )

Jack

[Eclipse]

You don't need to retake anything - you completed them and you're done.  If you're interested in retaking classes for the knowledge benefit that is one a different issue.

Once your level one is complete you are eligible for reinstatement of previous grade and all achievements.  Most likely the majority of them will already be reinstated automatically as I've had former members come back from the 80's early 90's who got their old numbers and majority of PD credits, etc.

The other stuff was as simple as showing a certificate and a fax to NHQ.

[RiverAux]

ColJack -- I wouldn't even begin to worry about not being up to date on your old ratings UNLESS you intend to begin to work in that field again.  But, a thorough reading of the applicable manuals should get you back up to date pretty quickly. 

[Eclipse]

ColJack -- I wouldn't even begin to worry about not being up to date on your old ratings UNLESS you intend to begin to work in that field again.  But, a thorough reading of the applicable manuals should get you back up to date pretty quickly. 

There's also a big difference between field ES quals (air or ground), and PD levels & ratings.
The PD really hasn't changed much in decades, the ES stuff is revised every 3-5 years or so and we all have to update.

[DNall]

I've had a couple breaks in service, including in & out & in again while eServices was standing up. My records are all jacked up. I don't have paperwork to document everything I've ever held. What eServices shows for me is not the full picture.

Examples:
1. I had an old 101 card to show GBD & Obs, but not Sr Obs & it's a hassle to find those logs, so I'm back to normal wings cause I don't care.

2. Also, I did have a master rating in cadet programs (pre-TLC), but it only showed as Sr on eServices. I could ask those commanders to write a memo, but I don't need to. The training requirements changed, and I feel I should update to the new training, so re-earning it is fine with me. I've since done another encampment & both taken & taught TLC. I should be good now, which should about finish out lvl 4 for me, again.

3. I had a commander's comm that's not in my records now, but I don't wear it cause it was just for helping out around a SMC course, and I don't think that's deserving. I've done plenty that is deserving, but I didn't get any awards for that stuff, so I don't wear it. I don't think there's documentation in my record for everything I do wear on my rack, but I could come up with supporting docs & people if I really had to.

If it were a case of me needing something for a promotion or for completion of a PD level that I needed so I could do something else, well then I might care enough to do something about it. That's not the case though, so I don't care & hadn't dealt with the hassle of fixing a bunch of BS admin that no one (incl me) cares about.

[RiverAux]

Does the 101 card actually show the advanced Observer ratings?  I dont recall ever seening on on them.