Vanguard Article in Volunteer

[CASH172]

The new Jan-Feb edition of the Volunteer has an article about Vanguard.  What really caught my attention was that they said parts of Vanguard's royalties and profits are returned to CAP.  The article mentioned facilities at Hawk, NBB, and other training sites were benefiting because of the CAP-Vanguard relationship.  It also said that Vanguard has a great online system and its customer service is outsanding, which I think anyone that's actually placed an order can speak otherwise on. 

What I wanna know is how true is the article and is NHQ actually behind all of the cease and desist letters going to other vendors?  Are the cease and desist letters actually meant to give CAP more money? 

[SarDragon]

The corporation owns the name. Vendors are not allowed to produce and sell products with that name unless they pay a licensing fee (early examples - ßeta and Apple). Apparently there is either a reluctance on the part of the corporation to extend multiple licenses, or there is a monetary problem with the cost for licensing.

The corporation has every right to protect their property. For example, Rolls-Royce is very diligent in protecting their branding. Xerox is another that tries hard, but is having difficulties. If a vendor doesn't pay for licensing, CAP can, and apparently has, send C&D orders.

[alamrcn]

This is recorded in some meeting minutes I read several months ago...
http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/member_services/publications/meeting_minutes.cfm
...they do talk about why we moved from the Bookstore to Vanguard.

The talk is exclusively on the cost of operation versus the service it provides. In the (BoG?) meeting where they chose Vanguard, they do mention the profit/kick-back/return that the corperation would get.

There isn't much detail to the agreement, but I believe it mentions the duration of the contract - I can't remember. It's quoted here on CAP-Talk in an older thred too.

-Ace

[pixelwonk]

This is recorded in some meeting minutes I read several months ago...
http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/member_services/publications/meeting_minutes.cfm
...

er... so which one was it?

[W3ZR]

I have made only one purchase from Vanguard since rejoining,
and I thought the service was pretty good.

After I chose my shipping method (USPS), they popped
a warning up to let me know the order would be slower
that way, but I still got my order in less than 2 weeks.

If they are kicking some money back into the program
good, its nice to know my money is doing something
good. Plus their prices for CAP gear beat the prices I
pay for Sheriffs gear into the ground. 

[thp]

Vanguard probably told them that if they didn't print that article they would screw up even more orders!

[♠SARKID♠]

Vanguard might give back a percentage of profits to CAP, but how much?  Is it significant or a drop in the bucket?

I think that nationals is just trying to cover their butt on a bad decision by putting the happy face on and telling us its alright.

[alamrcn]

er... so which one was it?

CAP Board of Governors Minutes 7 Dec 05
14 - DECISION ON PAPER:  OUTSOURCING CAPMart
- PURPOSE: To obtain endorsement to outsource CAPMart function to Vanguard
Industries, Inc.
- BACKGROUND:
-- CAP has operated CAPMart over 20 years as a profit center supplying members
with apparel and uniform items unique to the CAP program
-- Most years CAPMart returned revenue to the program, however, in the past few
years, sales have declined...in FY04 CAPMart lost about $200,000
-- In FY05, CAPMart returned a profit of $35,000 but that required more inventory
control, a voluntary reduction in staff, and a management change
-- Even with the return of profitability many issues remain: web site usability, financial
software support, inventory control, sales tax collection, shipping charges, and
management time needed to fix issues
-- One solution would require a $200,000 infrastructure improvement to fix most issues
but any previous sales tax liabilities could remain while applying to each county and
state for sales tax numbers...estimated at an additional $350,000 exposure
-- Preferred solution is to outsource the function to a company that provides fulfillment
as their core business
--- Fixes all issues; over time would improve customer satisfaction; lessens any
prior tax exposure as no new applications would be required; and a royalty for
using CAP's name would return an estimated $100,000 annually
-- Reviewed four company proposals and visited three business sites
-- Vanguard recommended for contract
--- CAP fits into their core business and company is positioned to add CAP to its
current customer list of Young Marines, Junior ROTC, and other school
programs
--- Committed to train customer service and expand market of new products
--- 5 year contract with renewal options

--------------------------------------------------------

There's your "Cease and Desist" letter answer! The minutes don't say who presented the idea, and I don't see any other documentation of earlier discussion at other meetings. So, just like that our uniformed lives were handed over with the whip of a pen! And... we're not even half way through the contract.

-Ace

[RogueLeader]

1) They haven't trained their Customer Service reps- Breach of contract!!
2) It does not specify that it is an exclusive contract.
3)  So, what are the royalty rates.  They estimate a $100,00 a year, so what does that translate to?

[cnitas]

What was the discussion on applying to counties and states for sales tax numbers?? 
Sales tax is only collected in the sates where you have brick and mortar stores.

$350,000 exposure??  , I would have worked for 1/2 that and filed all the necessary forms for every state in the nation...and have it done in about 2 weeks. (I am an accountant in my day job)

I think there was an agenda there.

[mikeylikey]

I think there was an agenda there.

Makes you think......

[RogueLeader]

What was the discussion on applying to counties and states for sales tax numbers?? 
Sales tax is only collected in the sates where you have brick and mortar stores.

$350,000 exposure??  , I would have worked for 1/2 that and filed all the necessary forms for every state in the nation...and have it done in about 2 weeks. (I am an accountant in my day job)

I think there was an agenda there.

Not only State, but County as well:

CAP Board of Governors Minutes 7 Dec 05
14 - DECISION ON PAPER:  OUTSOURCING CAPMart
- PURPOSE: To obtain endorsement to outsource CAPMart function to Vanguard
Industries, Inc.
- BACKGROUND:
-- CAP has operated CAPMart over 20 years as a profit center supplying members
with apparel and uniform items unique to the CAP program
-- Most years CAPMart returned revenue to the program, however, in the past few
years, sales have declined...in FY04 CAPMart lost about $200,000
-- In FY05, CAPMart returned a profit of $35,000 but that required more inventory
control, a voluntary reduction in staff, and a management change
-- Even with the return of profitability many issues remain: web site usability, financial
software support, inventory control, sales tax collection, shipping charges, and
management time needed to fix issues
-- One solution would require a $200,000 infrastructure improvement to fix most issues
but any previous sales tax liabilities could remain while applying to each county and
state for sales tax numbers...estimated at an additional $350,000 exposure
-- Preferred solution is to outsource the function to a company that provides fulfillment
as their core business
--- Fixes all issues; over time would improve customer satisfaction; lessens any
prior tax exposure as no new applications would be required; and a royalty for
using CAP's name would return an estimated $100,000 annually
-- Reviewed four company proposals and visited three business sites
-- Vanguard recommended for contract
--- CAP fits into their core business and company is positioned to add CAP to its
current customer list of Young Marines, Junior ROTC, and other school
programs
--- Committed to train customer service and expand market of new products
--- 5 year contract with renewal options

bold-my emphasis.

[RiverAux]

Even with the return of profitability many issues remain: web site usability,

Haven't seen any improvement at all there.  In fact, it is worse.  Last time I looked they were still posting 25 different photos of the same item, with each photo representing the same size.  Have to plow through all of them to get to the next thing.  I think they kept even the same horrible categories to which items are assigned. 

[cnitas]

Not only State, but County as well:

Yes, I saw that.  As I said before, there is no requirement to file sales tax except where you have a physical retail presence in that state (county sales tax is usually collected by the states).  The Supreme Court ruled very clearly in 1992, and there has been no federal laws passed regarding this since.  Trust me. I work with high volume retail internet sales companies and we follow this very closely. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I advise all new members to ignore the Vanguard web site and simply order by telephone.

[SarDragon]

I advise all new members to ignore the Vanguard web site and simply order by telephone.

Or do a mail-in order.