Strange...

[jb512]

I have a question for the group to see if anyone else has had a similar experience.

We have a pilot who is a former Major, USMC.  We have submitted his promotion paperwork along with his DD-214 and he keeps getting rejected.

He has yet to complete a form 5 and has no other position in the squadron, so am I to assume that the bosses want him working before he promotes or is there something we're missing?

[Eclipse]

I have a question for the group to see if anyone else has had a similar experience.

We have a pilot who is a former Major, USMC.  We have submitted his promotion paperwork along with his DD-214 and he keeps getting rejected.

He has yet to complete a form 5 and has no other position in the squadron, so am I to assume that the bosses want him working before he promotes or is there something we're missing?

Seems weird to me as well.  Assuming he's completed Level 1 and OPSEC, its pretty unusual for these promotions to get bounced.

Someone should ask Wing directly why its happening...

[Pylon]

My first point would be that you need to contact the disapproving authority, through the chain, to find out what the deal is.

I see a few potential areas from CAPR 35-6, which I've bolded for emphasis:

SECTION C - SPECIAL APPOINTMENTS
12. General. In consideration of appointment to certain key positions in CAP, special educational qualifications, or previous CAP or military experience, certain senior members who meet the minimum requirements outlined in 6 above are eligible for initial appointment or promotion to a grade commensurate with their position or experience, as outlined below. Future advancement is subject to qualifying for a higher grade under these provisions or meeting the duty performance eligibility requirements outlined in paragraph 11b above, whichever comes first. Promotion procedures are outlined in paragraph 8 above. To be considered for this type promotion, the member must meet the following minimum eligibility criteria:

a. Be at least 21 years of age.
b. Be a high school graduate (or educational equivalent).
c. Complete Level I of the Senior Member Professional Development Program.
d. Complete Cadet Protection Program Training (CPPT).
e. Be performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended.
f. Be recommended by immediate superior and unit commander.

15. Regular and Reserve Officers of the Armed Forces. Regular and Reserve officers of the Armed Forces of the United States, active, retired or resigned, may be advanced to a CAP grade equivalent to their grade in the Armed Forces (but not to exceed lieutenant colonel), in recognition of their military knowledge and experience. Such promotions are neither automatic nor mandatory, but are at the discretion of the promoting authority outlined in paragraph 5. This provision also includes members of the Reserve components (Air National Guard, Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard Reserve)  ...   NOTE: The unit commander will initiate initial promotion to officer grade based on prior military service only where proper documentation for that grade exists (a copy of DD Form 214, military identification card, or promotion order showing the grade requested is considered sufficient).

So yes, the approving authority can reject the application but it's likely that they're rejecting for a specific reason.

The most compelling reason is in Section C, Paragraph 12 (General).  The Major must "Be performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended"   That's not a suggestion; it's just as much a requirement as the Major having Level I complete.  He or she should be performing for Civil Air Patrol in a capacity or duty that befits the grade of Major.  In other words, flying the occasional O-flight or being Asst. Test Control Officer probably would not meet that requirement.

Take a look at the CAPF 2 that you've been submitting.  Did you detail all the required information in the remarks section, or did you just check "Maj", staple a DD214 to it, and send it up the chain? 

A good CAPF 2 will have a cover letter explaining the recommendation for promotion and some brief background information on the individual.  The remarks section will cite paragraph and chapter from the reg, and indicate that the Major has completed Level I, is over 21, has a high-school diploma, etc.  Then attach documentation showing Level I is complete (e-services print out with Level I and CPPT highlighted would be a convenient way to do this), along with the DD214 copy.  You should also explain in the remarks section what duties this SM is carrying out to meet the "exemplary manner" requirement.   Then send your complete packet up the chain for approval.  It will have a much higher chance of getting approved.

Our downfall is that in trying to recruit officers and former/retired officers is that many people tell them "Oh yeah, you can join CAP and get automatic promotion to your rank".  That's not the case, even if in many areas it is treated like that.   If the approving authority comes back and says "We don't believe Lt Col John Doe warrants the promotion at this time based on the information provided" you've got egg on your face and have potentially discouraged an otherwise great recruit.

[flyguy06]

How many commanders actually stress that "perform in an exempliary manner" thing? I dont know of any. My Squadron Commander will sign a promotion as soon as you meet the requirememnts. Maybe thats a bad thing. I dont know. I guess he figurwes there is no need to stress a volunteer and it not like the volunteer is loosing or gaining any money by getting promoted or not. So some members, in fact most members I run across really dont care about what they wear on their shoulders

[Short Field]

You need to contact the person who is disapproving the CAPF 2 and find out the reason for the disapproval.  Something is wrong somewhere.  While these promotions are" neither automatic nor mandatory, but are at the discretion of the promoting authority", the promoting authority should have a good reason to disapprove the promotion.

I have submitted at least six CAPF 2 for promotions based on military rank this year.  Section II must show they have completed Level I, with the dates.  I e-mail the CAPF 2 and the only documentation is a statement in Section IX. Remarks that I have verified the military rank by seeing the military ID Card or the DD Fm 214 and a copy is on file in the squadron.  No problems with any of them - they are normally approved and updated in e-Services within a week.

Having said all of that, I do sit on some CAPF 2s waiting for the person to become active - i.e. attend meetings on a regular basis and participate in our activities (bearing in mind that military requirements often slow down their participation). 

[mikeylikey]

How long has the Major been in CAP?  The only thing I can think of his he knows someone at Wing (or Group) who does not like him.

[Camas]

The most compelling reason is in Section C, Paragraph 12 (General).  The Major must "Be performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended"   That's not a suggestion; it's just as much a requirement as the Major having Level I complete.  He or she should be performing for Civil Air Patrol in a capacity or duty that befits the grade of Major.  In other words, flying the occasional O-flight or being Asst. Test Control Officer probably would not meet that requirement.

Our downfall is that in trying to recruit officers and former/retired officers is that many people tell them "Oh yeah, you can join CAP and get automatic promotion to your rank".  .

Good point; that's certainly part of the problem.  The philosophy of many who are a position to approve promotions is that if there's no good reason to disallow the promotion, the promotion should be approved.  Yet the idea of automatic promotions is open to question.  Personally I'm in favor of promotions no higher than captain for those at squadron level and perhaps field grade at group or wing - but that's just me.  I'm a member of my wing awards and promotion board and I don't always get the final "say so".

[RiverAux]

I would have expected whoever disapproved it to say why they disapproved it, especially when such promotions are generally done on autopilot. 

[Cecil DP]

I would have expected whoever disapproved it to say why they disapproved it, especially when such promotions are generally done on autopilot. 

'

The reg actually requires an explanation of why an appointment (officers are appointed, NCO's promoted, Enlisted E1-3 are advanced) is disapproved. We had the same problem a few years ago with an officer who was in my squadron, when Wing didn't give an explanation after two disapprovals, he appealed to Region, on the grounds that they gave no reason for disapproval. He was a Major, befre the week was out. 


f. If any commander in the chain of command disapproves a recommendation for promotion or request for waiver, he or she will so indicate over his or her signature on the CAPF 2 and will return the CAPF 2 to the initiator through channels. If the National Promotion Review Board denies a request for waiver, it will also be returned to the initiator through channels. In neither case does such disapproval preclude the individual from being recommended for promotion at some future date.

[RiverAux]

You could satisfy that regulation by writing "Denied" and signing your name below it.  Doesn't require an explanation.  However, as a matter of common sense, why wouldn't you tell them why it was denied if for no other reason than having them send the same thing again and again. 

[KC0IEA]

Are you sure that the former USMC Maj does not know why the promotion was denied?

We have several officers who have been denied qualifications from multiple examiners for inability to perform the required task to an acceptable level during training.  Only to have them keep asking their squadron commander when they are going to get their qualifications signed off.  The reason has been explained to them multiple times but they keep trying to find a way around the system.  It finally slowed down when the commander asked the question, and it was explanined to them also.

Not saying this has happened but be sure of the facts.

[riffraff]

A good CAPF 2 will have a cover letter explaining the recommendation for promotion and some brief background information on the individual.  The remarks section will cite paragraph and chapter from the reg, and indicate that the Major has completed Level I, is over 21, has a high-school diploma, etc.  Then attach documentation showing Level I is complete (e-services print out with Level I and CPPT highlighted would be a convenient way to do this), along with the DD214 copy.  You should also explain in the remarks section what duties this SM is carrying out to meet the "exemplary manner" requirement.   Then send your complete packet up the chain for approval.  It will have a much higher chance of getting approved.

This sounds like administrative overkill. Neither CAPR 35-5 nor the instructions for CAPF-2 require attachments and/or justification letters for officer of the armed forces promotions. Fill out Sections I and II; click the desired rank in Section III and applicable box in Special Appointments. List what you reviewed in Section IX and you're done.

The Sqdn CC is the verifying authority for the supporting documents (DD-214, ID Card, or promotion orders). He/she is basically saying they looked at the document(s) and recommends the promotion. There is no requirement to forward the reviewed documents nor is there any requirement for copies to be made and/or retained.

Section IX needs a one liner -- Per CAPR 35-5, Section 15, reviewed DD-214 (or ID card or promotion orders) and verified it supports the requested rank. Be brief and concise.

Has the Major in question completed Level One training and is he actively participating? As mentioned, these promotions are not automatic. There is also no mechanism within CAPR 35-5 to allow the promotion to be made to some intermediate rank -- i.e. the Major in this example is either made a Major or else made to go through the process like any other non-prior-service member.

Clearly promotion based on flying experience is a possibility? Also perhaps a professional skill is possible (lawyer, doctor, chaplain)? Otherwise, it's SM for 6months and then 2LT.

[jb512]

I guess we'll just have to check into it.  He's completed all the prerequisites and requirements.

Thanks for the help.

[Pylon]

A good CAPF 2 will have a cover letter explaining the recommendation for promotion and some brief background information on the individual.  The remarks section will cite paragraph and chapter from the reg, and indicate that the Major has completed Level I, is over 21, has a high-school diploma, etc.  Then attach documentation showing Level I is complete (e-services print out with Level I and CPPT highlighted would be a convenient way to do this), along with the DD214 copy.  You should also explain in the remarks section what duties this SM is carrying out to meet the "exemplary manner" requirement.   Then send your complete packet up the chain for approval.  It will have a much higher chance of getting approved.

This sounds like administrative overkill. Neither CAPR 35-5 nor the instructions for CAPF-2 require attachments and/or justification letters for officer of the armed forces promotions. Fill out Sections I and II; click the desired rank in Section III and applicable box in Special Appointments. List what you reviewed in Section IX and you're done.

The Sqdn CC is the verifying authority for the supporting documents (DD-214, ID Card, or promotion orders). He/she is basically saying they looked at the document(s) and recommends the promotion. There is no requirement to forward the reviewed documents nor is there any requirement for copies to be made and/or retained.

Section IX needs a one liner -- Per CAPR 35-5, Section 15, reviewed DD-214 (or ID card or promotion orders) and verified it supports the requested rank. Be brief and concise.

Has the Major in question completed Level One training and is he actively participating? As mentioned, these promotions are not automatic. There is also no mechanism within CAPR 35-5 to allow the promotion to be made to some intermediate rank -- i.e. the Major in this example is either made a Major or else made to go through the process like any other non-prior-service member.

Clearly promotion based on flying experience is a possibility? Also perhaps a professional skill is possible (lawyer, doctor, chaplain)? Otherwise, it's SM for 6months and then 2LT.

Administrative overkill?  It ensures all of our paperwork gets processed quickly, without question and without being rejected.  The approving authority is the ultimate decider whether or not the Major is participating at the appropriate levels and meets all the requirements.  There are plenty of squadron commanders who do not understand all the regs and would sign anyways, so providing the approving authority with the collateral evidence is never a bad thing.  It helps substantiate and expedite your request.

[Major Carrales]

I'm a believer in "Kill them with proper documentation."  With internet, it is not unreasonable to scan and "pdf" such documents for ease in promotion.

Our Group commander also requires a citation of the reg along with docmentation.

[Short Field]

Our Group commander also requires a citation of the reg along with docmentation.

Gee.  (All other comments strongly considered but deleted before posting)

[Major Carrales]

Our Group commander also requires a citation of the reg along with docmentation.

Gee.  (All other comments strongly considered but deleted before posting)

I made the comment because I thought the subject was "Why forms get rejected."  one method to surely have a form rejected is to fail to include the proper comments. It won't get past Group.

[AlphaSigOU]

I made the comment because I thought the subject was "Why forms get rejected."  one method to surely have a form rejected is to fail to include the proper comments. It won't get past Group.

As I've already found out the hard way with a recent Form 2 special promotion in my squadron.  To make a long story short, he didn't get the promotion.

[riffraff]

Administrative overkill?  It ensures all of our paperwork gets processed quickly, without question and without being rejected.  The approving authority is the ultimate decider whether or not the Major is participating at the appropriate levels and meets all the requirements.  There are plenty of squadron commanders who do not understand all the regs and would sign anyways, so providing the approving authority with the collateral evidence is never a bad thing.  It helps substantiate and expedite your request.

The military paperwork system was designed to be relatively straightforward. It's the people within the system that seem to want to overcomplicate things. IMO, adding extraneous documents only perpetuates the problem. It also implies a complete lack of trust at the squadron CC level -- i.e. the squadron CC is the verification authority for the supporting paperwork. Is a squadron CC really not competent to look at a DD-214, military ID card, or promotion orders? They're pretty simple documents -- rank on the top line and character of service at the bottom.  Military ID card/CAC -- a picture, name and rank. Promotion orders? Name, SSN, and grade promoted to. Do you really need a supporting letter and copies?

Finally, floating copies of any documents bearing anyone's personal info is a really, really, bad idea. With identity theft at records levels, safeguarding sensitive info is of paramount importance. E-mails of DD214s with name, address, SSN, service history being cc'd to anyone and everyone serves no purpose, isn't required, and puts the person's ID info at risk.

The only requirement is that document(s) (military ID, DD-214, or promotion orders) be reviewed (by the initiator) and a comment made in Section IX. There is nothing that says attach copies or retain copies in the personnel file.

Form 2 requires checking a few boxes and adding a comment in Section IX:
I have reviewed (insert document name) and, per CAPR 35-5, para 15,  they meet/support the requirements for requested grade.

Someone mentioned that Group require citing the appropriate reg. If you include it in Section IX, you're covered.

My day job is lecturing corporate and military clients about SOUBS -- Stomping Out Unnecessary Bull S--t.

Sorry for the drift.

With regards to your USMC Major: maybe there's a desire to wait a bit to evaluate his level of participation? Since he's already a pilot, a promotion to 1LT (presuming commercial pilot) should be reasonably easy to accomplish and then resubmit for Major at a later date. Ideally you'd really want to know why the promotion was not approved.

[RiverAux]

WIWASC ("When I Was A Squadron Commander" -- trying to start a new acronym  ) I sent up a lot of promotions that were just checkmarks on the form and never had a problem.