Is it a uniform if no one can see it?

[Hawk200]

You advocated it was OK to cover up the uniform so no one could see it - while I suppose that is a difference, the end result is the same.

I would have to concur here as well. If someone rolls up to a mission base, and I don't see an actual uniform, I'm going to challenge them. If they're taking off a jacket to show me their in uniform, they're already impeded themselves.

It may be doubtful that the 30 seconds taken to take off a jacket to identify themselves is going to get anyone killed, or cause death, but it's still inefficient.

When it comes to other scenes, an off duty cop can roll up on a crime scene, but unless he's known, he's probably not going to be allowed in. Same with firefighters. As well as EMS. And HazMat responders. Or any kind of other agency.

How about reporting to an Incident Commander? If you're not wearing something recognizable as uniform, you might not even be allowed to sign in. CAP is probably not going to be doing all its missions completely alone anymore.

Something else to think about: You can do the greatest job in the world, but if you look like crap, that's all anyone is going to remember. Including the public that supposedly never sees us. And a Raiders jacket over your CAP uniform isn't going inspire confidence.

[Eclipse]

You advocated it was OK to cover up the uniform so no one could see it - while I suppose that is a difference, the end result is the same.

My last round on this nonsense.

All active members while involved in mission activity are required to wear a reflective vest per the respective curriculum, unless dictated by the client other wise (i.e. CN). Futher they >should< be displaying their credentials on an arm band or clip.

During lunch this is not necessary.

While involved in base operations, in positions not generally charged with meeting the public or other agencies, if you are cold, and the uniform allows it, a sweater or jacket is fine.  For those charged with meeting outside parties, they should be >encouraged< to wear a uniform which has outward affiliation of their status, however operations will not grind to a halt if they do not.

Requiring specific outerwear with the golf shirt uniform negates one of the reasons for its existiance - namely an inexpensive, easy to wear uniform for members not interested in more complicated alternatives, or as an easy to carry get-up in your go-kit.

It conforms to uniforms worn by similar agencies, especially during prolonged engagements, including many PD/FD's, the ARC, and many 3&4 letter agencies.

IMHO the consternation with the golf shirt is a misguided attitude towards the person in it, versus the uniform itself.  Because it is easy to wear, many of our lowest-speed, GOB types wear only that combo, and can't even be bothered to wear it correctly.  Making compliance more difficult by prescribing specific outerwear isn't going to fix that.

And dismissing the way this is already addressed in the curriculm is just an excuse to argue.

[ddelaney103]

Something else to think about: You can do the greatest job in the world, but if you look like crap, that's all anyone is going to remember. Including the public that supposedly never sees us. And a Raiders jacket over your CAP uniform isn't going inspire confidence.

That might be excessive, but it is true that making a good first impression is important and it can be difficult to overcome presenting a bad image.

I talked to someone about uniforms today and I described a good uniform as a way to buy time so you get the chance to show them your professionalism.

[Hawk200]

All active members while involved in mission activity are required to wear a reflective vest per the respective curriculum, unless dictated by the client other wise (i.e. CN).

First I've heard of that. I know it's needed for ground pounders, but never thought of it as mandatory for mission base staff. Would like to see a reference.

Requiring specific outerwear with the golf shirt uniform negates one of the reasons for its existiance - namely an inexpensive, easy to wear uniform for members not interested in more complicated alternatives, or as an easy to carry get-up in your go-kit.

It conforms to uniforms worn by similar agencies, especially during prolonged engagements, including many PD/FD's, the ARC, and many 3&4 letter agencies.

Typically, those other agencies do actually have prescribed outergear for the very purpose of identifying them. I seriously doubt you're ever going to see a serious incident site with people running around wearing sports team, Paris Hilton, or Star Wars related outerwear. Those people know they wouldn't be taken seriously if they did.

After all, how many places on the web will sell you a nice coaches jacket with just about any Incident Command System position silkscreened in four or five inch letters on it? And how many of those have you seen in various photos, including the ones in the DHS ICS online webtraining?

Something else to think about: You can do the greatest job in the world, but if you look like crap, that's all anyone is going to remember. Including the public that supposedly never sees us. And a Raiders jacket over your CAP uniform isn't going inspire confidence.

That might be excessive, but it is true that making a good first impression is important and it can be difficult to overcome presenting a bad image.

It may be excessive, but I've seen it done. Including a few weekends ago. It was a Panthers jacket, but I think the principle is obvious.

I talked to someone about uniforms today and I described a good uniform as a way to buy time so you get the chance to show them your professionalism.

I kinda like that. Mind if I borrow it?

[ddelaney103]

I talked to someone about uniforms today and I described a good uniform as a way to buy time so you get the chance to show them your professionalism.

I kinda like that. Mind if I borrow it?

Sure - I'm just glad to make my contribution.

[Eclipse]

All active members while involved in mission activity are required to wear a reflective vest per the respective curriculum, unless dictated by the client other wise (i.e. CN).

First I've heard of that. I know it's needed for ground pounders, but never thought of it as mandatory for mission base staff. Would like to see a reference.

Sorry, I left out the word GROUND - as in GT, UDF, FLM, etc.

Typically, those other agencies do actually have prescribed outergear for the very purpose of identifying them. I seriously doubt you're ever going to see a serious incident site with people running around wearing sports team, Paris Hilton, or Star Wars related outerwear. Those people know they wouldn't be taken seriously if they did.

Yes, and typically these agencies ISSUE the gear or provide uniform allowances, and in many cases actually >pay< the people wearing the stuff.

Also, for my money, the Hello Kitty Tactical Vest is the best value.  Paris' BDU's don't stand up to field use.

[Psicorp]

You do keep the Hello Kitty pins on it, right? 

[Eclipse]

You do keep the Hello Kitty pins on it, right? 

Pins?  Those, my friend are appliqués!

[Dragoon]

Something else to think about: You can do the greatest job in the world, but if you look like crap, that's all anyone is going to remember. Including the public that supposedly never sees us. And a Raiders jacket over your CAP uniform isn't going inspire confidence.

Bingo.

And you gotta ask - if it's okay for me to fly missions with a golf shirt completely hidden under my UCLA sweatshirt - they why make me wear the golf shirt at all?  To anyone looking, public, CAP or USAF, it looks exactly the same.  Ditto a plaid hunter's jacket over BBDUs or white and greys - who knows what the heck is under there?

We don't wear uniforms for us.  We wear them for people who look at us.  And if we cover them up - they serve no purpose at all.

[Eclipse]

My vest would go great with this little beauty:



(this is real): http://blog.riflegear.com/archive/2007/12/26/hello-kitty-ar-15---evil-black-rifle-meets-cute-and.aspx

[mikeylikey]

^ Hello Kitty Indeed!

[RogueLeader]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!

[RogueLeader]

But still cool, now that I think about it.

[smj58501]

Along a similar vein to this topic...

If a man speaks in the forest, and his wife is not there to hear him, does she still think he is full of B as in B, S as in S?

Ponder...

[SM-MADDOG]

Im sorry sir but i dont agree 100%. But then again this is CAP. My self being a security officer and i was a police explorer at times i had a shirt under the uniform which had a design but no one could see, and guess what sir I still do my duty, I still deal with the bad stuff going on in my shift, that shirt is not going to keep me safer nor make it more dangerous, but then again I guess if its an inspection it cane be different but in a misson who gives what is under your uniform shirt. Are we here to look pretty all the time or help serve our country and maybe save lives etc ? I dont know about others but im here to serve my country in my job and CAP, im not here to look pretty pretty, pretty pretty aint going to make you do your job better. Take a look at the Cincinnati Riots those police officers were in a bad war zone getting shot at daily and amoung other things i can bet you some of them probably had not so great looking uniforms and not so great looking under shirts which may or may have not had a design.

Now im not saying you should never do the correct things in unfirom im just saying when the stuff hits the fan you got to do what is needed to serve the issue at hand and not look pretty. Im sure a person in need is going to tell a police officer, firefighter and CAP member that oh your shirt dont look right a button is missing dont help me, come on, with all respect sir knock it off because we must do what we have to do in an emergency etc. If you dont think so I can give you a n example

NEW ORELEANS. A high ranking CAP Officer had his rank turned up side down on his shirt so by rules hes out of uniform ? Yes probably, but guess what he still nailed it down and did his duty with his fellow men & women and helped the very needy people in that disaster mission. As Larry cable guy say's Git-R-Done, Well Git-R-Done and help people not over worry about stupid clothing in my opinion.

Serving 1998 Since

Stay Safe Everyone

Knock it off.

CAP Distinctive Uniforms authorize wear of civilian outerwear.   Corporate Uniforms (TPU) do not, and have specified outerwear.  I would caution anyone from using the term "corporate uniform" to describe what is actually a CAP Distinctive Uniform with different requirements.

If you are wearing a Harley t-shirt under your BDU, you are wrong.  CAPM 39-1 isn't intended to be a book of suggestions.

[SM-MADDOG]

That's why police officers are issued Commission ID Cards as Comm Police Officers I.E. Federal, State, Local Agencies. And alot of police officers also have a police officer wallet badge along with the comm card. Here most police officers have powers 24/7 and are required to have certain things with them sometimes radios and wallet badge, weapon etc.

You advocated it was OK to cover up the uniform so no one could see it - while I suppose that is a difference, the end result is the same.

I would have to concur here as well. If someone rolls up to a mission base, and I don't see an actual uniform, I'm going to challenge them. If they're taking off a jacket to show me their in uniform, they're already impeded themselves.

It may be doubtful that the 30 seconds taken to take off a jacket to identify themselves is going to get anyone killed, or cause death, but it's still inefficient.

When it comes to other scenes, an off duty cop can roll up on a crime scene, but unless he's known, he's probably not going to be allowed in. Same with firefighters. As well as EMS. And HazMat responders. Or any kind of other agency.

How about reporting to an Incident Commander? If you're not wearing something recognizable as uniform, you might not even be allowed to sign in. CAP is probably not going to be doing all its missions completely alone anymore.

Something else to think about: You can do the greatest job in the world, but if you look like crap, that's all anyone is going to remember. Including the public that supposedly never sees us. And a Raiders jacket over your CAP uniform isn't going inspire confidence.

[SM-MADDOG]

My self if someone came to a meeting with a winter jacket that wasnt a uniform jacket I wouldnt say anything, because CAP doesnt issue them, if they are that worried about it, I say issue them and not have people pay for it them self. We have many members who are low income, my self being one of them, I cant right now buy a 160 uniform jacket that the national hq may decide to change or do away with one day after I buy the thing.

Another problem I have a small one is on the web site it says members may come in civilian clothes to meetings, but I think some wings are changing that saying that you must now be in uniform to attend the meeting. I think that is kinda false advertising for membership in a way. Say a new person joins today but dont have the money for the uniform and they are informed oh you cant come if your not in uniform to meetings etc. Then If i were that person I would say wow, time to change my mind and get my membership dues back. Im sorry but im a person that is for the people more than i'am the CAP etc. Im for CAP but im also for the CAP people. Afterall we are the ones that make it happen.

What would you do with a person who wears a CDU or AFU and does not own a proper coat for weather conditions that are freezing comes to the meeting with a civilian heavy winter coat. When the coat is worn no one could tell that the person is wearing a uniform under the coat. What would you do. I have witness this many times during my career in CAP.