Change in NHQ Structure / Affect Change & do something

[mikeylikey]

^ Agreed.  And I don't agree with that either.  For one, how can he do the required 20 years that is in law?  Second, they could have brought him in as a contractor.  I guess we are moving back to giving Commissions out as rewards, or to people based on family.  I thought that went away after the Civil War. 

I feel bad for the guy, but I don't agree with what the Navy did. 

[BrianH76]

I wonder if Gen Courter and her advisers had this much debate over this issue and how they finally decided on Lt Col as the standard.

[mikeylikey]

^ Courter says "Make it Lt Col as a base".  And I bet everyone listened. 

This is the first decision I don't agree with her on.  However, I will support it since it is coming from the top, and let it fail on it's own.  That way I can at least say, I supported it, yet it was a bad decision. 

[Dragoon]

It's funny that on one hand, people want our grade to mean something (see the commission thread) but then they balk when grade is used as anything approaching how grade gets used for real. 

The Lt Col threshold is acceptable.  At the very least, it's a good indicator that  folks have a few years in, a master's rating in a specialty, and have enough interest in CAP to complete Level IV.  Not a bad screening criteria.  Not perfect, but not a killer either. 

Sure, a couple of smart guys get left out.  So all they need to do is get their butts in gear and complete the PD.  Then they can apply for these jobs in a couple of years.  Quit complaining and hit the books!   

[mikeylikey]

It's funny that on one hand, people want our grade to mean something (see the commission thread) but then they balk when grade is used as anything approaching how grade gets used for real. 

The Lt Col threshold is acceptable.  At the very least, it's a good indicator that  folks have a few years in, a master's rating in a specialty, and have enough interest in CAP to complete Level IV.  Not a bad screening criteria.  Not perfect, but not a killer either. 

Sure, a couple of smart guys get left out.  So all they need to do is get their butts in gear and complete the PD.  Then they can apply for these jobs in a couple of years.  Quit complaining and hit the books!   

I personally know 3 Lt Col's that have been in CAP less than a year.  They were granted Lt Col by the Wing King and Region God.  they have no prior-CAP or Military service.  They are not eligible for specail promotions based on proffession or skill.  They are "Friends".  I know many more Majors, that have less time in than some 2nd Lt's.  I know a greater number of Captains that got it cause they fly, or or teachers. 

So, to say that they are better than a guy who spent the last 3 years making Captain because he or she has to serve TIG is insane.  It is not about "hitting the books".  It is treating everyone fairly.  Instead of mandating a rank as a skill identifier (because as you said our rank means nothing), make it PRO DEV levels.  In the end that is what our members work toward, not rank,  The rank only comes after meeting certain criteria (well most of us at least).

[jimmydeanno]

Now the $64K question.  Is the Lt Col who has no experience in CAP or the Captain who got Captain only because they are a pilot actually going to be interested in applying for any of these positions.

I think the ones that will apply will be those who have prior experience dealing in upper level areas of CAP, who will have experience in how to look at things in the overall scale.  If a 2d Lt in CAP applies, most likely they will be a squadron guy.  This then implies they probably have no real knowledge of how CAP works on the larger scale and when posed with a task to advise on something the first thought will be details.  This is the thinking that has put us in the situations we are in today.

A good friend of mine uses the expression, "measure with a micrometer, mark with a grease pencil, cut with a blowtorch."

If someone is really that concerned about the national level of CAP, they will get themselves to a position where they will qualify.  It's not like these positions are lifelong appointments like Supreme Court Justices...

[Dragoon]

Also there's the assumption that everyone who got a waiver for promotion is a complete idiot, and just a personal friend of the commander.

Hogwash.

There's some of that, of course.  Our last commander did more than his share of it.   But some of those waivered guys got the waiver for special qualifications.  You know, the same kind of folks that some on this thread want to serve in these jobs.

Remember, if there was no grade requirement, the system would be WIDE open to GOB syndrome.  The folks at national could just appoint their 2d Lt friends with no CAP experience to the jobs.

Sure it ain't perfect., but it ain't bad.   Jimmydeanno hit the nail on the head in his last post.

[CAP_truth]

I think that a person to be considered for a national staff adviser should have completed Level V and have a master rating in the specialty that they are applying for rather than a Lt. Col. and 2 years at wing or above.

[Westernslope]

I think that a person to be considered for a national staff adviser should have completed Level V and have a master rating in the specialty that they are applying for rather than a Lt. Col. and 2 years at wing or above.

I agree. I also think it should be a requirement that someone should have completed Level V prior to becoming a corporate officer. I know of one corporate officer that has only completed Level I.

[mikeylikey]

^ Agreed!

[Gunner C]

^ Agreed.  And I don't agree with that either.  For one, how can he do the required 20 years that is in law?  Second, they could have brought him in as a contractor.  I guess we are moving back to giving Commissions out as rewards, or to people based on family.  I thought that went away after the Civil War. 

I feel bad for the guy, but I don't agree with what the Navy did. 

The military has greater latitude with bringing in non-line officers.  MDs can be brought in at higher grades due to experience or specialty.  There can be even be more leeway with chaplains.  They are a completely different type - they have no legal authority in the military to command, so their rank isn't the same as other officers.  For them, it is much more of a "parade field" item than giving them seniority over other officers.

As far as this Navy medical corps guy, he isn't going to retire [thus the 20 years comment] unless he gets sick or hurt.  That's OK.  I'm sure they explained that to him when he came in.  BTW, I'm sure that he's not regular navy - he's more than likely USN Reserves.

[Gunner C]

I think that a person to be considered for a national staff adviser should have completed Level V and have a master rating in the specialty that they are applying for rather than a Lt. Col. and 2 years at wing or above.

Heck, its hard enough to find people at wing or region sometimes who are qualified in the specialty that their job calls for.  Specialty, just as rank, doesn't matter - but it should.

Now to contradict myself, the folks in the former DCS/Strategic Missions were a completely different issue.  A friend of mine was a director in the organization.  He told me that there were folks who were intelligence professionals (not a specialty), FEMA types, scientists (not a specialty), air defense types (not a specialty, either), and so forth. 

Just about all of those positions are gone.  It was closer to a Special Operations Command within CAP than your typical mission stuff.  There were, I think, 25 of them.  Now there's three or four.  That program is probably gone forever and the 16 GA-8s are going to become IMHO personal flying staff cars for wing kings and higher.

[Ricochet13]

However, I will support it since it is coming from the top, and let it fail on it's own.  That way I can at least say, I supported it, yet it was a bad decision. 

Is that the way the RM works?  We should support it by letting it fall on its own???

A decision has been made and has some valid foundation in overall concept.  How about lets see if we can make it work by 1) encouraging those Lt Cols who could be excellent in the positions to apply, and 2) take a look at our own PD credentials and work to get to that level.

Also think a good group of majors and captains might make themselves available to assist when the eventual call comes for support.  A good opportunity for developing a team which actually might get something done.

[mikeylikey]

^ YES!  You may not agree with what your bosses want to do, but by hell you better support it.  It is exactly how the military works.  Unlike the civilian world, Military Officers do not have the luxury to say to their boses, "that plan stinks", nor can they secretly undermine it (once a decision has been made and orders are given of course).   

[Maj Ballard]

It's funny that on one hand, people want our grade to mean something (see the commission thread) but then they balk when grade is used as anything approaching how grade gets used for real. 

The Lt Col threshold is acceptable.  At the very least, it's a good indicator that  folks have a few years in, a master's rating in a specialty, and have enough interest in CAP to complete Level IV.  Not a bad screening criteria.  Not perfect, but not a killer either. 

Sure, a couple of smart guys get left out.  So all they need to do is get their butts in gear and complete the PD.  Then they can apply for these jobs in a couple of years.  Quit complaining and hit the books!   

Really? What about us Captains who have been Squadron Commanders, served in multiple positions on Group staff (in a Group larger than many Wings), have completed Level 4, Squadron Officer School, have a Master rating in the relevant specialty track and are just waiting for the promotions because of TIG... We need to hit the books? We need to complete the PD? Let's see... Can't do Air Command and Staff College because I'm waiting for Major. Bummer that I don't have all the vacation time in the world to do NSC right now.

Someone else mentioned that Level 5 should be required for corporate officers. I completely agree. However, these "advisor" positions are not corporate officers. (Not that you thought that... just clarifying.)

[mikeylikey]

^ Right On!

[AlphaSigOU]

Well said, Leslie!

Got my Level III while still a 1st Lt, fully qualified for promotion to Major, except I hafta wait another 2-1/2 years TIG wearing railroad tracks before I trade 'em for golden bottlecaps on my shoulders and farts and darts on my bus driver cap. Last I checked, CAP doesn't hand out below-the zone promotions, and I'm not even anywhere near being considered for a squadron or group commander slot.

And I'm not too far from completing Level IV... but I'm not in a big hurry to do so.

So I don't meet the minimum requirement to be a National staffer per Gen. Coulter's letter? No big deal for me.

[ZigZag911]

shouldn't be advising on national programs!

I'd make Level III the floor, not Capt. There's people that can get Capt and Maj without having a bit of knowledge about CAP besides "passing" the level I orientation program. Lt Cols are either retired military, and have background in other aspects of life, or level IV or better CAP personnel, which is a good start point. But if we're going to reduce the requirement eventually, let's make the bar out of PD completon, not grade achieved.
[/quote]

You make a good point, how about a compromise: Level 3 AND Major?

[Dragoon]

It's funny that on one hand, people want our grade to mean something (see the commission thread) but then they balk when grade is used as anything approaching how grade gets used for real. 

The Lt Col threshold is acceptable.  At the very least, it's a good indicator that  folks have a few years in, a master's rating in a specialty, and have enough interest in CAP to complete Level IV.  Not a bad screening criteria.  Not perfect, but not a killer either. 

Sure, a couple of smart guys get left out.  So all they need to do is get their butts in gear and complete the PD.  Then they can apply for these jobs in a couple of years.  Quit complaining and hit the books!   

Really? What about us Captains who have been Squadron Commanders, served in multiple positions on Group staff (in a Group larger than many Wings), have completed Level 4, Squadron Officer School, have a Master rating in the relevant specialty track and are just waiting for the promotions because of TIG... We need to hit the books? We need to complete the PD? Let's see... Can't do Air Command and Staff College because I'm waiting for Major. Bummer that I don't have all the vacation time in the world to do NSC right now.

Someone else mentioned that Level 5 should be required for corporate officers. I completely agree. However, these "advisor" positions are not corporate officers. (Not that you thought that... just clarifying.)

You're right.  You don't need to hit the books.  What you need is a few more years of active participation in order to broaden/deepen your CAP experience.

Don't get me wrong - by having been a squadron CC and staff jobs, you're clearly one of the more outstanding captains.  And one day you'll be an outstanding Lt Col.  And then you'll apply and get one of these jobs.  But for right now, you're the anomaly - statistically, there aren't enough like you to warrant changing the whole system.

In the meantime, I have faith that the jobs will go to folks who have everything you have - plus 5 more years of CAP experience. 

There had to be  a cut line somewhere.  This one ain't perfect - but it screens out a large number of highly opinionated candidates who, frankly, don't have the breadth of experience to serve at that level.  Just like in the real military, there will be exceptional folks that will be excluded - I know of some RM captains who I trust over some RM majors - but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

[BlackKnight]

I find it interesting how most of the posts in this thread are arguing for or against the minimum grade requirement of LtCol for NHQ staff, but we've overlooked the most important factor that affects us (the membership) for anyone serving on NHQ staff.  That regardless of grade or professional development, they have a proven track record of living the CAP Core Values:

• Integrity
• Excellence
• Respect
• Volunteer Service