Change in NHQ Structure / Affect Change & do something

[SJFedor]

What the heckare CAP's "urban programs"?  They've already got a slot for the school enrichment program (middle school program) advisor.  Is this the Junior Cadet program?  If so, why not name it that way?  And if it is the Junior Cadets, why is it under Cadet Program rather than AE?

Not sure, but willing to take a stab. It may be a directorate of the middle school initiative with a special emphasis on inner city, high risk youths. That would make the most sense to me.

[mikeylikey]

^ You will report to the Former PAWG Commander, Al Applebaum and set up school Initiative programs in other inner-city schools like he did in Philadelphia.

Honestly, I would pass on the opportunity.  The guy and those associated with the National School Initiative are not working as great as everyone thought.  In PAWG the majority of Cadets in the Philadelphia area are School Cadets, who do their own thing, but yet take training funds and assets away from regular Squadrons.  Unless National begins to fund these School Initiatives, they are bad news for those people in the wing who happen to be regular members.

I supported the SI program from the very beginning, but when Applebaum refused to grow the program to school districts that were begging for it, I lost all confidence in him.

[Tim Medeiros]

looking at the org chart on the memo, Urban Programs doesn't report to school enrichment, which is also up for grabs, so maybe Col Applebaum won't be the one to get it after all is said and done

[Duke Dillio]

Just a thought about the rank requirement...

I have known people that have been in CAP for a VERY long time and never wanted to promote higher than 1st Lt. or Capt.  While I understand that they are trying to make it so everyone doesn't volunteer, I think that Lt. Col. seems a little high.  If they are put into a national position, why not just give them a temporary promotion like they do with group and wing commanders?  If they don't fit the bill, them you bump them back down to whatever grade they held before.

I do like this initiative and I hope that it does get rid of the "good ol boys club" but my thoughts are that it won't happen because all of the "good ol boys" are probably Lt. Cols already.  It is a step in the right direction though.

As for the advisor title, I am sure that this means that the higher up from them will have the final decision.  The advisor will probably make recommendations to the higher level, who will then present it to whoever hopefully with the advisor's recommendations.  It sounds pretty logical to me but then again..... I don't possess any logic.....

[Ricochet13]

Just a thought about the rank requirement...

I have known people that have been in CAP for a VERY long time and never wanted to promote higher than 1st Lt. or Capt.  While I understand that they are trying to make it so everyone doesn't volunteer, I think that Lt. Col. seems a little high.  If they are put into a national position, why not just give them a temporary promotion like they do with group and wing commanders?  If they don't fit the bill, them you bump them back down to whatever grade they held before.

I do like this initiative and I hope that it does get rid of the "good ol boys club" but my thoughts are that it won't happen because all of the "good ol boys" are probably Lt. Cols already.  It is a step in the right direction though.

As for the advisor title, I am sure that this means that the higher up from them will have the final decision.  The advisor will probably make recommendations to the higher level, who will then present it to whoever hopefully with the advisor's recommendations.  It sounds pretty logical to me but then again..... I don't possess any logic.....

While this may be true, there are some who were content to control their local program without having to complete any PD training beyond the minimum.  In short, they saw no need to sit in class or attend weekends to obtain the training that would lead to promotion.  Rank was unimportant to them (or so they said).  Now along comes a requirement that these new volunteer positions be filled by Lt Cols and these folks cry fowl.  We'll too bad!  Maybe now some people will get off their  . . .    

Go ahead and "flame" me if you wish, but the "Good Old Boy (and Girl)" system doesn't just exist at the national level and they're not all Lt Cols.   

[BrianH76]

I kind of agree with Ricochet's post.  Many people on this forum have spoken of how CAP rank means very little and there being no positive incentive to earn it.  I don't know that this will motivate anyone, since those who are motivated enough to be on National HQ staff are probably likely to fast-burn their way up to Lt Col.  But this would be a step towards tying rank with level of command and staff experience.

[Duke Dillio]

Just a thought about the rank requirement...

I have known people that have been in CAP for a VERY long time and never wanted to promote higher than 1st Lt. or Capt.  While I understand that they are trying to make it so everyone doesn't volunteer, I think that Lt. Col. seems a little high.  If they are put into a national position, why not just give them a temporary promotion like they do with group and wing commanders?  If they don't fit the bill, them you bump them back down to whatever grade they held before.

I do like this initiative and I hope that it does get rid of the "good ol boys club" but my thoughts are that it won't happen because all of the "good ol boys" are probably Lt. Cols already.  It is a step in the right direction though.

As for the advisor title, I am sure that this means that the higher up from them will have the final decision.  The advisor will probably make recommendations to the higher level, who will then present it to whoever hopefully with the advisor's recommendations.  It sounds pretty logical to me but then again..... I don't possess any logic.....

While this may be true, there are some who were content to control their local program without having to complete any PD training beyond the minimum.  In short, they saw no need to sit in class or attend weekends to obtain the training that would lead to promotion.  Rank was unimportant to them (or so they said).  Now along comes a requirement that these new volunteer positions be filled by Lt Cols and these folks cry fowl.  We'll too bad!  Maybe now some people will get off their  . . .    

Go ahead and "flame" me if you wish, but the "Good Old Boy (and Girl)" system doesn't just exist at the national level and they're not all Lt Cols.   

Hey, you should know by now that I can't flame anyone.  I agree in that the good ol boy system exists at all levels.  My thinking is that the Lt. Col. thing is just to weed out the people who aren't serious about the job.  If you can stay awake for like ten sets of 48 hours and powerpoint death, you too can be an Lt. Col.  I've only made it through like three of them so I can't really talk...

[mikeylikey]

I don't really care for the Lt Col requirement.  It is "not right".  So the guy that comes in as a CAPT because he had flight school paid for by mom and dad and promotes sooner than a person who had been in as a Cadet, but did not get the Spaatz.  It is only a requirement because those that lead have already been there.  As in they were Lt Col's, so what do they care.   I know a bunch of Lt Col's that were pencil-whipped through, given special promotions, or played the political game well. 

I agree.....they should take the better candidate whether a Flight Officer or a Colonel.  And if they are not a Lt Col, then promote them to it if you want when they take on the job. 

The "good ole boys club" is still an issue whether you have Courter or TP in the position.

[RiverAux]

One way to look at it is that it is very difficult to get Lt. Col. rank as a gimme as is possible with other senior member ranks.  There aren't too many ways to get to it without going through the CAP professional development system. 

[BrianH76]

The "good ole boys club" is still an issue whether you have Courter or TP in the position.

I don't agree that simply because one must be a Lt Col to apply for these posts that the "good ole boys club" is still in force.  While I believe Gen Courter's announcement is a good step forward, only time will tell if this is a true change to the way CAP does business or not.  Internal politics will always remain, but institutional procedures can be developed to limit it.

I'm very curious as to whether these individuals will be appointed for a specific term, or an indefinite term at the pleasure of the CAP/CC.  I'd rather it not be a quasi-permanent staff that remains even as National Commanders and National Vice Commanders come and go.  I hope others will have future opportunities to rotate into these positions and bring fresh perspectives and new ideas to the National level and develop their own leadership and management abilities.

[SAR-EMT1]

Personally I'd say, make sure they have Captain
Previous experience as -either a Sq/CC or a Grp/WG staff member, and Senior or Master in your specialty area. etc. - temporary promotion to Major to see if they work out.

[RocketPropelled]

Like any other vetting structure (Human Resources, anyone?), remember that the requirements for these positions are likely a first-pass filter.  I'd imagine if some of these positions didn't turn up some first-class, high-speed people in the application bin, NHQ is smart enough to open things up a bit.

Would I love to take a crack at one or two of these? Sure, but I'm a Captain, and that's just how it is.  I can live with it, and by the time I'm a Lt Col, maybe the world will be ready.

I'm optimistic that this call will be answered by some great people -- I'm lucky enough to have some great ones at my local squadron, and they're an all-star team -- I'd almost salivate at the capabilities we'd have by leveraging some of the skills and experience we have as a national membership.

Our strength is in our numbers, diversity, and collective abilities.  This is a great first step in leveraging the wealth that we all know exists in the field.  I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

[Duke Dillio]

Personally I'd say, make sure they have Captain
Previous experience as -either a Sq/CC or a Grp/WG staff member, and Senior or Master in your specialty area. etc. - temporary promotion to Major to see if they work out.

I'd still add a time in service requirement...

[ZigZag911]

An advisor needs to be something of a subject matter expert....not necessarily one that knows all the answers, but knows who/where to go to find them.

I think what's happened here is the bar has deliberately been set high with the lt col requirement as a threshold....eventually there probably will be some opening up of opportunities for otters to offer their services....I do think captain ought to be the 'floor' here, though....if you haven't been around long enough or taken the trouble to become a captain, then you probably shouldn't be advising on national programs!

[Cecil DP]

I believe the criteria were put in place to ensure that the individual who applies has  long time experience in CAP, has worked at an executive level (Wing and/or Region), and has proven commitment to CAP. 

[SJFedor]

An advisor needs to be something of a subject matter expert....not necessarily one that knows all the answers, but knows who/where to go to find them.

I think what's happened here is the bar has deliberately been set high with the lt col requirement as a threshold....eventually there probably will be some opening up of opportunities for otters to offer their services....I do think captain ought to be the 'floor' here, though....if you haven't been around long enough or taken the trouble to become a captain, then you probably shouldn't be advising on national programs!

I'd make Level III the floor, not Capt. There's people that can get Capt and Maj without having a bit of knowledge about CAP besides "passing" the level I orientation program. Lt Cols are either retired military, and have background in other aspects of life, or level IV or better CAP personnel, which is a good start point. But if we're going to reduce the requirement eventually, let's make the bar out of PD completon, not grade achieved.

[BrianH76]

I still think the Lt Col requirement is a good idea.  The whole point of this process seems to be to cut down the cronyism at NHQ.  If you open the selection up to anyone, then a CAP/CC has a completely free hand to choose anyone they want to.  "Best qualified" is in the eye of the beholder.  As SJFedor said, requiring Lt Col's means the person will be likely either retired military or have substantial CAP experience. 

[mikeylikey]

I still think the Lt Col requirement is a good idea.  The whole point of this process seems to be to cut down the cronyism at NHQ.  If you open the selection up to anyone, then a CAP/CC has a completely free hand to choose anyone they want to.  "Best qualified" is in the eye of the beholder.  As SJFedor said, requiring Lt Col's means the person will be likely either retired military or have substantial CAP experience. 

You can get a waiver in CAP to be a Lt Col with no prior service or CAP experience.  The whole promotion system in CAP is skewed up (and screwed up). 

I agree with SJFedor.....base the selection on PD level, NOT RANK.  As "Billy Bob airline pilot comes in as a CAPT because he spent time flying is not fair to the rest of us who sit TIG.

[BrianH76]

You can get a waiver in CAP to be a Lt Col with no prior service or CAP experience.  The whole promotion system in CAP is skewed up (and screwed up). 

I agree with SJFedor.....base the selection on PD level, NOT RANK.  As "Billy Bob airline pilot comes in as a CAPT because he spent time flying is not fair to the rest of us who sit TIG.

The CAP promotion process is flawed to be sure, and could stand some serious revisions.  But I think Gen Courter's intent is good.  Again, the true test will come after this process is complete; when we see who was selected, and whether we go through this process again when those individuals step aside or their term is finished. 

[Grumpy]

"I agree with SJFedor.....base the selection on PD level, NOT RANK.  As "Billy Bob airline pilot comes in as a CAPT because he spent time flying is not fair to the rest of us who sit TIG."

CAP is not the only one to give credit for experience.  We just had a 61 year old doctor here in San Diego enter the Navy after his son was killed in Iraq.  They brought him in as a Lt Cmdr.

Not complaining just pointing out that it happens in the service too.