Change in NHQ Structure / Affect Change & do something

[Tubacap]

Just got this off the national website.

http://www.cap.gov/documents/Volunteer_Directors_Vacancy_Announcement.pdf

I thoroughly enjoy the Generals leadership ability and think she is going to be outstanding.

Good luck to all the LtCol's out there!

[jimmydeanno]

Just noticing that the Uniform Team Leader slot appears to be open...how's this going to affect the members on this very board who would report to this person? 

[captrncap]

How does one find these letters on NHQ website?

[dwb]

How does one find these letters on NHQ website?

I saw this latest one on the main e-Services page (after I logged in).  In the center column, there's a whole list of news items.

[dhon27]

I think the attached is a step in the right direction.  Thoughts?

https://www.capnhq.gov/news/AllUnitCCLetter28Nov07.pdf

[RiverAux]

Seems strange to have the homeland security advisor and border operations advisors reporting to different people. 

Why are some positions Advisors while others are team leaders?

What the heckare CAP's "urban programs"?  They've already got a slot for the school enrichment program (middle school program) advisor.  Is this the Junior Cadet program?  If so, why not name it that way?  And if it is the Junior Cadets, why is it under Cadet Program rather than AE?

And more generally, why are we setting up two entirely separate national command structures?  We've got the paid staff and then a whole parallel organization for volunteers.  For example, why aren't the public affairs and marketing advisors reporting to the national public affairs staff? 

[isuhawkeye]

the volunteer staff have not traditionally reported to the career folks, and vice versa

[DNall]

I especially like para 5 down by the sig block. Lovely verbage that.

[RiverAux]

the volunteer staff have not traditionally reported to the career folks, and vice versa

Explains more than a few things.  Parallel command structures make no sense and they need to be integrated in some form or fashion. 

[jimmydeanno]

The volunteers are the policy makers, the paid employees are the day to day managers of those policies.

As an organization we use their specialized training to help us as volunteers. 

I think it would be a BAD idea to integrate the structures.

[RiverAux]

When the people making policy have no actual control over those doing the work, there is no way to ensure that it actually ever gets done.  Yes, at the very top level there is some integration. 

However, I am thinking more of having volunteers associated with the paid employees to help do some of the work and increase overall productivity. 

Just a basic example are the unacceptable delays in turning NEB/BoG decisions into CAP regulations.  Yes, they've cut out some of the bottlenecks, but it shouldn't take that long.

Now, if the applicable paid staff member had a team of volunteers around the country who could jump on these assignments and develop the initial drafts it might speed things up. 

[CAP_truth]

I see a problem a member can be a captain or major and a master rating in a specialty but if they have not served on wing or higher they can not be considered for a position. I know of some members who did have the qualification to hold these positions but they are not Lt. Col. or have had service at wing. A major with Level IV can become a wing commander or serve as a member at large but can not serve as a national staff adviser.

[RiverAux]

I've been thinking of CG Aux, which by comparison does a lot more with their national staff, which is entirely volunteer.  Just one example is the fact that they produce their own national magazine and probably half a dozen national-level program newsletters on their own.  CAP used to have about the same number of national level newsletters, but they've all dropped away except Safety.  They've made stabs at a few lately, but none have yet made it past their first issue (the Homeland Security newsletter for one). 

[Grumpy]

I think the attached is a step in the right direction.  Thoughts?

https://www.capnhq.gov/news/AllUnitCCLetter28Nov07.pdf

Well, just on the surface, the open application looks like it'll get rid of the "good ol' boy" system.

[RiverAux]

That part is definetly a major improvement. 

[ZigZag911]

I'm not sure I like the 'advisor' title, it's so out of phase with our lower echelon duty titles.

It's good to see, though, that there is both a commitment to increasing volunteer involvement @ NHQ level, and a willingness to make adjustments for the sake of improvement.

And the General's expressed wish to offer opportunities to serve at National to a broad base of the membership is particularly gratifying....perhaps we've entered an era in which 'what you know' is more important than 'who you know'!

[Grumpy]

I'm not sure I like the 'advisor' title, it's so out of phase with our lower echelon duty titles.

It's good to see, though, that there is both a commitment to increasing volunteer involvement @ NHQ level, and a willingness to make adjustments for the sake of improvement.

And the General's expressed wish to offer opportunities to serve at National to a broad base of the membership is particularly gratifying....perhaps we've entered an era in which 'what you know' is more important than 'who you know'!

[Grumpy]

"I'm not sure I like the 'advisor' title, it's so out of phase with our lower echelon duty titles."

Perhaps we could suggest they replace the title "advisor" to liaison.

[Maj Ballard]

I think the overall concept is a step in the right direction.

Only thing I was disappointed about is the requirements for Wing+/Lt Col. I would love to apply for eLearning Advisor, but no dice. I wish they had some way to apply with a Wing CC's endorsement or something if you don't meet the quals, especially if your "real world" quals are exceptional.

[RiverAux]

I've got mixed feelings on the rank issue.  On the one hand everybody knows that CAP rank doesn't necessarily relate to CAP experience in any particular field and limiting applicants to a certain rank has the possibility of keeping out people who are otherwise fully qualified.  On the other hand, this is a national level position and a high rank is appropriate given the ranks of the people you will be working with on a regular basis. 

Wing+ staff experience seems very appropriate as that implies that you've learned quite a bit about the nuts and bolts of running CAP and have probably been around long enough that you've seen things that you would like to fix. 

[SJFedor]

What the heckare CAP's "urban programs"?  They've already got a slot for the school enrichment program (middle school program) advisor.  Is this the Junior Cadet program?  If so, why not name it that way?  And if it is the Junior Cadets, why is it under Cadet Program rather than AE?

Not sure, but willing to take a stab. It may be a directorate of the middle school initiative with a special emphasis on inner city, high risk youths. That would make the most sense to me.

[mikeylikey]

^ You will report to the Former PAWG Commander, Al Applebaum and set up school Initiative programs in other inner-city schools like he did in Philadelphia.

Honestly, I would pass on the opportunity.  The guy and those associated with the National School Initiative are not working as great as everyone thought.  In PAWG the majority of Cadets in the Philadelphia area are School Cadets, who do their own thing, but yet take training funds and assets away from regular Squadrons.  Unless National begins to fund these School Initiatives, they are bad news for those people in the wing who happen to be regular members.

I supported the SI program from the very beginning, but when Applebaum refused to grow the program to school districts that were begging for it, I lost all confidence in him.

[Tim Medeiros]

looking at the org chart on the memo, Urban Programs doesn't report to school enrichment, which is also up for grabs, so maybe Col Applebaum won't be the one to get it after all is said and done

[Duke Dillio]

Just a thought about the rank requirement...

I have known people that have been in CAP for a VERY long time and never wanted to promote higher than 1st Lt. or Capt.  While I understand that they are trying to make it so everyone doesn't volunteer, I think that Lt. Col. seems a little high.  If they are put into a national position, why not just give them a temporary promotion like they do with group and wing commanders?  If they don't fit the bill, them you bump them back down to whatever grade they held before.

I do like this initiative and I hope that it does get rid of the "good ol boys club" but my thoughts are that it won't happen because all of the "good ol boys" are probably Lt. Cols already.  It is a step in the right direction though.

As for the advisor title, I am sure that this means that the higher up from them will have the final decision.  The advisor will probably make recommendations to the higher level, who will then present it to whoever hopefully with the advisor's recommendations.  It sounds pretty logical to me but then again..... I don't possess any logic.....

[Ricochet13]

Just a thought about the rank requirement...

I have known people that have been in CAP for a VERY long time and never wanted to promote higher than 1st Lt. or Capt.  While I understand that they are trying to make it so everyone doesn't volunteer, I think that Lt. Col. seems a little high.  If they are put into a national position, why not just give them a temporary promotion like they do with group and wing commanders?  If they don't fit the bill, them you bump them back down to whatever grade they held before.

I do like this initiative and I hope that it does get rid of the "good ol boys club" but my thoughts are that it won't happen because all of the "good ol boys" are probably Lt. Cols already.  It is a step in the right direction though.

As for the advisor title, I am sure that this means that the higher up from them will have the final decision.  The advisor will probably make recommendations to the higher level, who will then present it to whoever hopefully with the advisor's recommendations.  It sounds pretty logical to me but then again..... I don't possess any logic.....

While this may be true, there are some who were content to control their local program without having to complete any PD training beyond the minimum.  In short, they saw no need to sit in class or attend weekends to obtain the training that would lead to promotion.  Rank was unimportant to them (or so they said).  Now along comes a requirement that these new volunteer positions be filled by Lt Cols and these folks cry fowl.  We'll too bad!  Maybe now some people will get off their  . . .    

Go ahead and "flame" me if you wish, but the "Good Old Boy (and Girl)" system doesn't just exist at the national level and they're not all Lt Cols.   

[BrianH76]

I kind of agree with Ricochet's post.  Many people on this forum have spoken of how CAP rank means very little and there being no positive incentive to earn it.  I don't know that this will motivate anyone, since those who are motivated enough to be on National HQ staff are probably likely to fast-burn their way up to Lt Col.  But this would be a step towards tying rank with level of command and staff experience.

[Duke Dillio]

Just a thought about the rank requirement...

I have known people that have been in CAP for a VERY long time and never wanted to promote higher than 1st Lt. or Capt.  While I understand that they are trying to make it so everyone doesn't volunteer, I think that Lt. Col. seems a little high.  If they are put into a national position, why not just give them a temporary promotion like they do with group and wing commanders?  If they don't fit the bill, them you bump them back down to whatever grade they held before.

I do like this initiative and I hope that it does get rid of the "good ol boys club" but my thoughts are that it won't happen because all of the "good ol boys" are probably Lt. Cols already.  It is a step in the right direction though.

As for the advisor title, I am sure that this means that the higher up from them will have the final decision.  The advisor will probably make recommendations to the higher level, who will then present it to whoever hopefully with the advisor's recommendations.  It sounds pretty logical to me but then again..... I don't possess any logic.....

While this may be true, there are some who were content to control their local program without having to complete any PD training beyond the minimum.  In short, they saw no need to sit in class or attend weekends to obtain the training that would lead to promotion.  Rank was unimportant to them (or so they said).  Now along comes a requirement that these new volunteer positions be filled by Lt Cols and these folks cry fowl.  We'll too bad!  Maybe now some people will get off their  . . .    

Go ahead and "flame" me if you wish, but the "Good Old Boy (and Girl)" system doesn't just exist at the national level and they're not all Lt Cols.   

Hey, you should know by now that I can't flame anyone.  I agree in that the good ol boy system exists at all levels.  My thinking is that the Lt. Col. thing is just to weed out the people who aren't serious about the job.  If you can stay awake for like ten sets of 48 hours and powerpoint death, you too can be an Lt. Col.  I've only made it through like three of them so I can't really talk...

[mikeylikey]

I don't really care for the Lt Col requirement.  It is "not right".  So the guy that comes in as a CAPT because he had flight school paid for by mom and dad and promotes sooner than a person who had been in as a Cadet, but did not get the Spaatz.  It is only a requirement because those that lead have already been there.  As in they were Lt Col's, so what do they care.   I know a bunch of Lt Col's that were pencil-whipped through, given special promotions, or played the political game well. 

I agree.....they should take the better candidate whether a Flight Officer or a Colonel.  And if they are not a Lt Col, then promote them to it if you want when they take on the job. 

The "good ole boys club" is still an issue whether you have Courter or TP in the position.

[RiverAux]

One way to look at it is that it is very difficult to get Lt. Col. rank as a gimme as is possible with other senior member ranks.  There aren't too many ways to get to it without going through the CAP professional development system. 

[BrianH76]

The "good ole boys club" is still an issue whether you have Courter or TP in the position.

I don't agree that simply because one must be a Lt Col to apply for these posts that the "good ole boys club" is still in force.  While I believe Gen Courter's announcement is a good step forward, only time will tell if this is a true change to the way CAP does business or not.  Internal politics will always remain, but institutional procedures can be developed to limit it.

I'm very curious as to whether these individuals will be appointed for a specific term, or an indefinite term at the pleasure of the CAP/CC.  I'd rather it not be a quasi-permanent staff that remains even as National Commanders and National Vice Commanders come and go.  I hope others will have future opportunities to rotate into these positions and bring fresh perspectives and new ideas to the National level and develop their own leadership and management abilities.

[SAR-EMT1]

Personally I'd say, make sure they have Captain
Previous experience as -either a Sq/CC or a Grp/WG staff member, and Senior or Master in your specialty area. etc. - temporary promotion to Major to see if they work out.

[RocketPropelled]

Like any other vetting structure (Human Resources, anyone?), remember that the requirements for these positions are likely a first-pass filter.  I'd imagine if some of these positions didn't turn up some first-class, high-speed people in the application bin, NHQ is smart enough to open things up a bit.

Would I love to take a crack at one or two of these? Sure, but I'm a Captain, and that's just how it is.  I can live with it, and by the time I'm a Lt Col, maybe the world will be ready.

I'm optimistic that this call will be answered by some great people -- I'm lucky enough to have some great ones at my local squadron, and they're an all-star team -- I'd almost salivate at the capabilities we'd have by leveraging some of the skills and experience we have as a national membership.

Our strength is in our numbers, diversity, and collective abilities.  This is a great first step in leveraging the wealth that we all know exists in the field.  I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

[Duke Dillio]

Personally I'd say, make sure they have Captain
Previous experience as -either a Sq/CC or a Grp/WG staff member, and Senior or Master in your specialty area. etc. - temporary promotion to Major to see if they work out.

I'd still add a time in service requirement...

[ZigZag911]

An advisor needs to be something of a subject matter expert....not necessarily one that knows all the answers, but knows who/where to go to find them.

I think what's happened here is the bar has deliberately been set high with the lt col requirement as a threshold....eventually there probably will be some opening up of opportunities for otters to offer their services....I do think captain ought to be the 'floor' here, though....if you haven't been around long enough or taken the trouble to become a captain, then you probably shouldn't be advising on national programs!

[Cecil DP]

I believe the criteria were put in place to ensure that the individual who applies has  long time experience in CAP, has worked at an executive level (Wing and/or Region), and has proven commitment to CAP. 

[SJFedor]

An advisor needs to be something of a subject matter expert....not necessarily one that knows all the answers, but knows who/where to go to find them.

I think what's happened here is the bar has deliberately been set high with the lt col requirement as a threshold....eventually there probably will be some opening up of opportunities for otters to offer their services....I do think captain ought to be the 'floor' here, though....if you haven't been around long enough or taken the trouble to become a captain, then you probably shouldn't be advising on national programs!

I'd make Level III the floor, not Capt. There's people that can get Capt and Maj without having a bit of knowledge about CAP besides "passing" the level I orientation program. Lt Cols are either retired military, and have background in other aspects of life, or level IV or better CAP personnel, which is a good start point. But if we're going to reduce the requirement eventually, let's make the bar out of PD completon, not grade achieved.

[BrianH76]

I still think the Lt Col requirement is a good idea.  The whole point of this process seems to be to cut down the cronyism at NHQ.  If you open the selection up to anyone, then a CAP/CC has a completely free hand to choose anyone they want to.  "Best qualified" is in the eye of the beholder.  As SJFedor said, requiring Lt Col's means the person will be likely either retired military or have substantial CAP experience. 

[mikeylikey]

I still think the Lt Col requirement is a good idea.  The whole point of this process seems to be to cut down the cronyism at NHQ.  If you open the selection up to anyone, then a CAP/CC has a completely free hand to choose anyone they want to.  "Best qualified" is in the eye of the beholder.  As SJFedor said, requiring Lt Col's means the person will be likely either retired military or have substantial CAP experience. 

You can get a waiver in CAP to be a Lt Col with no prior service or CAP experience.  The whole promotion system in CAP is skewed up (and screwed up). 

I agree with SJFedor.....base the selection on PD level, NOT RANK.  As "Billy Bob airline pilot comes in as a CAPT because he spent time flying is not fair to the rest of us who sit TIG.

[BrianH76]

You can get a waiver in CAP to be a Lt Col with no prior service or CAP experience.  The whole promotion system in CAP is skewed up (and screwed up). 

I agree with SJFedor.....base the selection on PD level, NOT RANK.  As "Billy Bob airline pilot comes in as a CAPT because he spent time flying is not fair to the rest of us who sit TIG.

The CAP promotion process is flawed to be sure, and could stand some serious revisions.  But I think Gen Courter's intent is good.  Again, the true test will come after this process is complete; when we see who was selected, and whether we go through this process again when those individuals step aside or their term is finished. 

[Grumpy]

"I agree with SJFedor.....base the selection on PD level, NOT RANK.  As "Billy Bob airline pilot comes in as a CAPT because he spent time flying is not fair to the rest of us who sit TIG."

CAP is not the only one to give credit for experience.  We just had a 61 year old doctor here in San Diego enter the Navy after his son was killed in Iraq.  They brought him in as a Lt Cmdr.

Not complaining just pointing out that it happens in the service too.

[mikeylikey]

^ Agreed.  And I don't agree with that either.  For one, how can he do the required 20 years that is in law?  Second, they could have brought him in as a contractor.  I guess we are moving back to giving Commissions out as rewards, or to people based on family.  I thought that went away after the Civil War. 

I feel bad for the guy, but I don't agree with what the Navy did. 

[BrianH76]

I wonder if Gen Courter and her advisers had this much debate over this issue and how they finally decided on Lt Col as the standard.

[mikeylikey]

^ Courter says "Make it Lt Col as a base".  And I bet everyone listened. 

This is the first decision I don't agree with her on.  However, I will support it since it is coming from the top, and let it fail on it's own.  That way I can at least say, I supported it, yet it was a bad decision. 

[Dragoon]

It's funny that on one hand, people want our grade to mean something (see the commission thread) but then they balk when grade is used as anything approaching how grade gets used for real. 

The Lt Col threshold is acceptable.  At the very least, it's a good indicator that  folks have a few years in, a master's rating in a specialty, and have enough interest in CAP to complete Level IV.  Not a bad screening criteria.  Not perfect, but not a killer either. 

Sure, a couple of smart guys get left out.  So all they need to do is get their butts in gear and complete the PD.  Then they can apply for these jobs in a couple of years.  Quit complaining and hit the books!   

[mikeylikey]

It's funny that on one hand, people want our grade to mean something (see the commission thread) but then they balk when grade is used as anything approaching how grade gets used for real. 

The Lt Col threshold is acceptable.  At the very least, it's a good indicator that  folks have a few years in, a master's rating in a specialty, and have enough interest in CAP to complete Level IV.  Not a bad screening criteria.  Not perfect, but not a killer either. 

Sure, a couple of smart guys get left out.  So all they need to do is get their butts in gear and complete the PD.  Then they can apply for these jobs in a couple of years.  Quit complaining and hit the books!   

I personally know 3 Lt Col's that have been in CAP less than a year.  They were granted Lt Col by the Wing King and Region God.  they have no prior-CAP or Military service.  They are not eligible for specail promotions based on proffession or skill.  They are "Friends".  I know many more Majors, that have less time in than some 2nd Lt's.  I know a greater number of Captains that got it cause they fly, or or teachers. 

So, to say that they are better than a guy who spent the last 3 years making Captain because he or she has to serve TIG is insane.  It is not about "hitting the books".  It is treating everyone fairly.  Instead of mandating a rank as a skill identifier (because as you said our rank means nothing), make it PRO DEV levels.  In the end that is what our members work toward, not rank,  The rank only comes after meeting certain criteria (well most of us at least).

[jimmydeanno]

Now the $64K question.  Is the Lt Col who has no experience in CAP or the Captain who got Captain only because they are a pilot actually going to be interested in applying for any of these positions.

I think the ones that will apply will be those who have prior experience dealing in upper level areas of CAP, who will have experience in how to look at things in the overall scale.  If a 2d Lt in CAP applies, most likely they will be a squadron guy.  This then implies they probably have no real knowledge of how CAP works on the larger scale and when posed with a task to advise on something the first thought will be details.  This is the thinking that has put us in the situations we are in today.

A good friend of mine uses the expression, "measure with a micrometer, mark with a grease pencil, cut with a blowtorch."

If someone is really that concerned about the national level of CAP, they will get themselves to a position where they will qualify.  It's not like these positions are lifelong appointments like Supreme Court Justices...

[Dragoon]

Also there's the assumption that everyone who got a waiver for promotion is a complete idiot, and just a personal friend of the commander.

Hogwash.

There's some of that, of course.  Our last commander did more than his share of it.   But some of those waivered guys got the waiver for special qualifications.  You know, the same kind of folks that some on this thread want to serve in these jobs.

Remember, if there was no grade requirement, the system would be WIDE open to GOB syndrome.  The folks at national could just appoint their 2d Lt friends with no CAP experience to the jobs.

Sure it ain't perfect., but it ain't bad.   Jimmydeanno hit the nail on the head in his last post.

[CAP_truth]

I think that a person to be considered for a national staff adviser should have completed Level V and have a master rating in the specialty that they are applying for rather than a Lt. Col. and 2 years at wing or above.

[Westernslope]

I think that a person to be considered for a national staff adviser should have completed Level V and have a master rating in the specialty that they are applying for rather than a Lt. Col. and 2 years at wing or above.

I agree. I also think it should be a requirement that someone should have completed Level V prior to becoming a corporate officer. I know of one corporate officer that has only completed Level I.

[mikeylikey]

^ Agreed!

[Gunner C]

^ Agreed.  And I don't agree with that either.  For one, how can he do the required 20 years that is in law?  Second, they could have brought him in as a contractor.  I guess we are moving back to giving Commissions out as rewards, or to people based on family.  I thought that went away after the Civil War. 

I feel bad for the guy, but I don't agree with what the Navy did. 

The military has greater latitude with bringing in non-line officers.  MDs can be brought in at higher grades due to experience or specialty.  There can be even be more leeway with chaplains.  They are a completely different type - they have no legal authority in the military to command, so their rank isn't the same as other officers.  For them, it is much more of a "parade field" item than giving them seniority over other officers.

As far as this Navy medical corps guy, he isn't going to retire [thus the 20 years comment] unless he gets sick or hurt.  That's OK.  I'm sure they explained that to him when he came in.  BTW, I'm sure that he's not regular navy - he's more than likely USN Reserves.

[Gunner C]

I think that a person to be considered for a national staff adviser should have completed Level V and have a master rating in the specialty that they are applying for rather than a Lt. Col. and 2 years at wing or above.

Heck, its hard enough to find people at wing or region sometimes who are qualified in the specialty that their job calls for.  Specialty, just as rank, doesn't matter - but it should.

Now to contradict myself, the folks in the former DCS/Strategic Missions were a completely different issue.  A friend of mine was a director in the organization.  He told me that there were folks who were intelligence professionals (not a specialty), FEMA types, scientists (not a specialty), air defense types (not a specialty, either), and so forth. 

Just about all of those positions are gone.  It was closer to a Special Operations Command within CAP than your typical mission stuff.  There were, I think, 25 of them.  Now there's three or four.  That program is probably gone forever and the 16 GA-8s are going to become IMHO personal flying staff cars for wing kings and higher.

[Ricochet13]

However, I will support it since it is coming from the top, and let it fail on it's own.  That way I can at least say, I supported it, yet it was a bad decision. 

Is that the way the RM works?  We should support it by letting it fall on its own???

A decision has been made and has some valid foundation in overall concept.  How about lets see if we can make it work by 1) encouraging those Lt Cols who could be excellent in the positions to apply, and 2) take a look at our own PD credentials and work to get to that level.

Also think a good group of majors and captains might make themselves available to assist when the eventual call comes for support.  A good opportunity for developing a team which actually might get something done.

[mikeylikey]

^ YES!  You may not agree with what your bosses want to do, but by hell you better support it.  It is exactly how the military works.  Unlike the civilian world, Military Officers do not have the luxury to say to their boses, "that plan stinks", nor can they secretly undermine it (once a decision has been made and orders are given of course).   

[Maj Ballard]

It's funny that on one hand, people want our grade to mean something (see the commission thread) but then they balk when grade is used as anything approaching how grade gets used for real. 

The Lt Col threshold is acceptable.  At the very least, it's a good indicator that  folks have a few years in, a master's rating in a specialty, and have enough interest in CAP to complete Level IV.  Not a bad screening criteria.  Not perfect, but not a killer either. 

Sure, a couple of smart guys get left out.  So all they need to do is get their butts in gear and complete the PD.  Then they can apply for these jobs in a couple of years.  Quit complaining and hit the books!   

Really? What about us Captains who have been Squadron Commanders, served in multiple positions on Group staff (in a Group larger than many Wings), have completed Level 4, Squadron Officer School, have a Master rating in the relevant specialty track and are just waiting for the promotions because of TIG... We need to hit the books? We need to complete the PD? Let's see... Can't do Air Command and Staff College because I'm waiting for Major. Bummer that I don't have all the vacation time in the world to do NSC right now.

Someone else mentioned that Level 5 should be required for corporate officers. I completely agree. However, these "advisor" positions are not corporate officers. (Not that you thought that... just clarifying.)

[mikeylikey]

^ Right On!

[AlphaSigOU]

Well said, Leslie!

Got my Level III while still a 1st Lt, fully qualified for promotion to Major, except I hafta wait another 2-1/2 years TIG wearing railroad tracks before I trade 'em for golden bottlecaps on my shoulders and farts and darts on my bus driver cap. Last I checked, CAP doesn't hand out below-the zone promotions, and I'm not even anywhere near being considered for a squadron or group commander slot.

And I'm not too far from completing Level IV... but I'm not in a big hurry to do so.

So I don't meet the minimum requirement to be a National staffer per Gen. Coulter's letter? No big deal for me.

[ZigZag911]

shouldn't be advising on national programs!

I'd make Level III the floor, not Capt. There's people that can get Capt and Maj without having a bit of knowledge about CAP besides "passing" the level I orientation program. Lt Cols are either retired military, and have background in other aspects of life, or level IV or better CAP personnel, which is a good start point. But if we're going to reduce the requirement eventually, let's make the bar out of PD completon, not grade achieved.
[/quote]

You make a good point, how about a compromise: Level 3 AND Major?

[Dragoon]

It's funny that on one hand, people want our grade to mean something (see the commission thread) but then they balk when grade is used as anything approaching how grade gets used for real. 

The Lt Col threshold is acceptable.  At the very least, it's a good indicator that  folks have a few years in, a master's rating in a specialty, and have enough interest in CAP to complete Level IV.  Not a bad screening criteria.  Not perfect, but not a killer either. 

Sure, a couple of smart guys get left out.  So all they need to do is get their butts in gear and complete the PD.  Then they can apply for these jobs in a couple of years.  Quit complaining and hit the books!   

Really? What about us Captains who have been Squadron Commanders, served in multiple positions on Group staff (in a Group larger than many Wings), have completed Level 4, Squadron Officer School, have a Master rating in the relevant specialty track and are just waiting for the promotions because of TIG... We need to hit the books? We need to complete the PD? Let's see... Can't do Air Command and Staff College because I'm waiting for Major. Bummer that I don't have all the vacation time in the world to do NSC right now.

Someone else mentioned that Level 5 should be required for corporate officers. I completely agree. However, these "advisor" positions are not corporate officers. (Not that you thought that... just clarifying.)

You're right.  You don't need to hit the books.  What you need is a few more years of active participation in order to broaden/deepen your CAP experience.

Don't get me wrong - by having been a squadron CC and staff jobs, you're clearly one of the more outstanding captains.  And one day you'll be an outstanding Lt Col.  And then you'll apply and get one of these jobs.  But for right now, you're the anomaly - statistically, there aren't enough like you to warrant changing the whole system.

In the meantime, I have faith that the jobs will go to folks who have everything you have - plus 5 more years of CAP experience. 

There had to be  a cut line somewhere.  This one ain't perfect - but it screens out a large number of highly opinionated candidates who, frankly, don't have the breadth of experience to serve at that level.  Just like in the real military, there will be exceptional folks that will be excluded - I know of some RM captains who I trust over some RM majors - but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

[BlackKnight]

I find it interesting how most of the posts in this thread are arguing for or against the minimum grade requirement of LtCol for NHQ staff, but we've overlooked the most important factor that affects us (the membership) for anyone serving on NHQ staff.  That regardless of grade or professional development, they have a proven track record of living the CAP Core Values:

• Integrity
• Excellence
• Respect
• Volunteer Service

[Pylon]

I find it interesting how most of the posts in this thread are arguing for or against the minimum grade requirement of LtCol for NHQ staff, but we've overlooked the most important factor that affects us (the membership) for anyone serving on NHQ staff.  That regardless of grade or professional development, they have a proven track record of living the CAP Core Values:

• Integrity
• Excellence
• Respect
• Volunteer Service

Unfortunately, that's not something tracked in E-services.  The purpose of the minimum grade is not a "check this box, get the position" type of deal.  It's merely an initial screening to set a baseline for experience.  I am positive that candidates who apply, after meeting the initial screening, will be further interviewed to determine their candidacy for an NHQ position.

[Maj Ballard]

You're right.  You don't need to hit the books.  What you need is a few more years of active participation in order to broaden/deepen your CAP experience.

Don't get me wrong - by having been a squadron CC and staff jobs, you're clearly one of the more outstanding captains.  And one day you'll be an outstanding Lt Col.  And then you'll apply and get one of these jobs.  But for right now, you're the anomaly - statistically, there aren't enough like you to warrant changing the whole system.

In the meantime, I have faith that the jobs will go to folks who have everything you have - plus 5 more years of CAP experience. 

There had to be  a cut line somewhere.  This one ain't perfect - but it screens out a large number of highly opinionated candidates who, frankly, don't have the breadth of experience to serve at that level.  Just like in the real military, there will be exceptional folks that will be excluded - I know of some RM captains who I trust over some RM majors - but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

Points well taken. Honestly, I need another CAP job like I need a hole in my head anyway.
What I might do is, when the position is filled, simply contact the person and introduce myself. Offer to assist in any way I can, etc. Then I'll go back to my real job and cheer my cadets on to winning Region Color Guard Competition.

[CAP_truth]

I think when this is all said and done ,you will find that the same people who are in these positions will still be there. They will be the same people appointed the same way they were before. Just a different person doing the appointing.

[mikeylikey]

I think when this is all said and done ,you will find that the same people who are in these positions will still be there. They will be the same people appointed the same way they were before. Just a different person doing the appointing.

You may be correct.  Until we actually see what happens, Courter may just be another player in the "best friends club"

[flyguy06]

I've got mixed feelings on the rank issue.  On the one hand everybody knows that CAP rank doesn't necessarily relate to CAP experience in any particular field and limiting applicants to a certain rank has the possibility of keeping out people who are otherwise fully qualified.  On the other hand, this is a national level position and a high rank is appropriate given the ranks of the people you will be working with on a regular basis. 

Wing+ staff experience seems very appropriate as that implies that you've learned quite a bit about the nuts and bolts of running CAP and have probably been around long enough that you've seen things that you would like to fix. 

Riveraux,

For once, I agree with you. I dont agree with having tobe a Lt/ Col in order to serve on this positions. I am a Capt. I was brought up in an "urban" Squadron. I started as a cadet and am currently the DCC inthe same squadron. I have plenty of experience in this area. But I cant be in the position because I am a Captain. That sucks.

[flyguy06]

What the heckare CAP's "urban programs"?  They've already got a slot for the school enrichment program (middle school program) advisor.  Is this the Junior Cadet program?  If so, why not name it that way?  And if it is the Junior Cadets, why is it under Cadet Program rather than AE?

Not sure, but willing to take a stab. It may be a directorate of the middle school initiative with a special emphasis on inner city, high risk youths. That would make the most sense to me.

It has nothing to do with middle schools. They want to start more units in areas like the one I am in. Inner city areas. I think its a great idea. I only wish I could volunteer to help but I dont have enough rank for them.