Cloth Insignia

[JCW0312]

Hi all. I'm back in CAP as a S/M after being a cadet many moons ago. Quick question for all. I know that the cloth rank for BDUs is supposed to be folded an sewn on (a slightly difficult task). I ordered the cloth EMT badge from the hock shop and it's really thick. Is it supposed to be folded as well, or???

Any hints on dealing with the cloth insignia is appreciated.

Thanks!

[MIKE]

This is why you are not supposed to buy cloth insignia from the Hock. JMHO.  No, I am not a paid spokesman for Vanguard.

[jimmydeanno]

For best results, I would highly recommend folding it.  When you fold it under, try to trim some of the excess away and iron it down, just watch those fingers!!!

If you don't fold it, the edges will fray unless you use one of those over edge stiching patterns they use on patches. (please don't )

As for the border, 1/8" is what you want all the way around.

[JCW0312]

So are the EMT badges from Vanguard thin like the rank insignia?

[MIKE]

Affirmative.  The Hock also has the thicker grade insignia... Have gotten both styles when ordering at different times.

[jeders]

The Hock's can be folded down as is and look just fine on my uniform. However, if you strip off that white mesh backing, it becomes much thinner and less stiff.

[Eclipse]

If you use a really hot iron, you should be able to shape it correctly and make it easier for sewing.

I use iron-on sizing which, when done, results in a rigid square that can then be iron into place.

[LtCol White]

There is a fabric glue called Alene's Super Tacky Glue. I use the glue on the fabric and let it set for about 1 min, fold it then hold it for about 2 mins and its done. Then you can put glue on the back and position in on your BDU's. Once the glue is dry (invisible), you can take it or give it to someone to machine sew and it will be perfectly placed. The first time you wash your uniform, the glue dislolves and is completely gone and your BDU's look really sharp.

You can use it for every patch or insignia on your uniform to lock it down before you have it professionally sewn.

[Eclipse]

There is a fabric glue called Alene's Super Tacky Glue. I use the glue on the fabric and let it set for about 1 min, fold it then hold it for about 2 mins and its done. Then you can put glue on the back and position in on your BDU's. Once the glue is dry (invisible), you can take it or give it to someone to machine sew and it will be perfectly placed. The first time you wash your uniform, the glue dislolves and is completely gone and your BDU's look really sharp.

You can use it for every patch or insignia on your uniform to lock it down before you have it professionally sewn.

That's basically the same thing I'm doing and is the way to go - especially if you're not doing the sewing yourself.

Just be careful with the fabric glue, if you use too much it can bleed through the patch and leave an ugly smudge on the front side.

Also, many commercially-made patches come with iron-on glue already on the patch - that's what that clear, semi-stiff backing is.  Use an iron on high, and after heating, place the garment on something flat with some heavy books over the patch and let it cool.

In some cases you won't even need to sew it.

[Cecil DP]

If you want to avod all the hassles, take the uniforms to a base and have them sew it on at the tailor shop. Cost about $2 per patch. Actually most tailors or seamstresses can do it

[JCW0312]

OK, I really appreciate all of the replies. Why doesn't someone just make all the insignia with finished edges at the correct 1/8" measurement? I'd pay an extra buck per patch for it just to cut down on some of the hassle.

[Hawk200]

Why doesn't someone just make all the insignia with finished edges at the correct 1/8" measurement?

Because that would make sense. Which someone would most likely get fired over.

Yes, the above remark is tongue firmly in cheek. But from what I've seen, it's also pretty accurate.

[O-Rex]

There is a fabric glue called Alene's Super Tacky Glue. I use the glue on the fabric and let it set for about 1 min, fold it then hold it for about 2 mins and its done. Then you can put glue on the back and position in on your BDU's. Once the glue is dry (invisible), you can take it or give it to someone to machine sew and it will be perfectly placed. The first time you wash your uniform, the glue dislolves and is completely gone and your BDU's look really sharp.

You can use it for every patch or insignia on your uniform to lock it down before you have it professionally sewn.

That's basically the same thing I'm doing and is the way to go - especially if you're not doing the sewing yourself.

Just be careful with the fabric glue, if you use too much it can bleed through the patch and leave an ugly smudge on the front side.

Also, many commercially-made patches come with iron-on glue already on the patch - that's what that clear, semi-stiff backing is.  Use an iron on high, and after heating, place the garment on something flat with some heavy books over the patch and let it cool.

In some cases you won't even need to sew it.

The problem with glue is if you have to change your patch or insignia, you're stuck.  Changing some insignia means changing it's position.  Example: you wear a ground team member badge and an aeronautical badge (wings)  you upgrade your GTM to Ground Team leader, which with the star is a slightly bigger badge.  Now you have to move the aeronautical badge up a bit, which you're not going to be able to do with glued cloth insignia.

Spend the money and have it done professionally: most glued stuff I've seen looks. . . .  well  . . . .  like it's been glued.

If you are so inclined, invest in a sewing machine, and get auntie to teach you to use it.  I got one for my birthday: my non-CAP buds laugh at me, fellow CAP'ers appreciate the need for one.  I swear it's literally saved me hundreds of dollars that I would have spent at the dryclean/sew shop, not to mention repair and modification of field and flight gear that I wouldn't have dreamed of otherwise.  

[JCW0312]

I would never dream of just gluing on a patch without sewing it, but using the glue to hold the folds on insignia and hold the patch in place while you sew sounds like a good idea.

[MIKE]

ACUs and Velcro for the win! 

[JCW0312]

That's a little ways down the road I presume....

[JCW0312]

And the BDU caps are supposed to have rank on the front of them now, right? I think I read somewhere that it had been changed since the last revision of 39-1.

[MIKE]

Link to the ICL on the BDU cap grade.

[JCW0312]

Just when I thought there was enough sewing....

[Eclipse]

And the BDU caps are supposed to have rank on the front of them now, right? I think I read somewhere that it had been changed since the last revision of 39-1.

Yes - and THAT will definitely challenge your sewing ability, as will the epaulets on the M65.

In response to the glue - the iron-on sizing that I use does not leave any marks on removal, it is a very light adhesive.  The fabric glue is more of an issue if you use too much.

The glue on the patches from the factory is a legit problem - this can leave the white marks you'll see on a lot of enlisted uniforms we get from DRMO, and sometimes it just won't come off.

[LtCol White]

If you use the Alene's glue, once you wash it all residue is gone. It disolves in the wash and there is no sign of the gluing. Only the sewing. If you remove a badge to change it, there is no marking of the fabric underneath. I've been doing this for years.

[JCW0312]

Oh yes, I am really looking forward to the sewing on the Field Jacket! I appreciate all of the insight here guys.

[JCW0312]

Well, I just placed an order from Vanguard for the cloth insignia. From what I read in other posts, I should hopefully have it in before Christmas.... 2008.   

[Al Sayre]

Oh yes, I am really looking forward to the sewing on the Field Jacket! I appreciate all of the insight here guys.

Here is a simple solution...  Buy some Camo fabric to match- (Walmart or the local fabric store should have it).  Make a pattern using your velcro type epaulette covers from your blues.  Sew the insignia on the epaulette cover.  Slip it on the Field Jacket and pin it from the bottom with a safety pin so it won't slide around.  It looks much better than most I have seen sewn directly on the epaulette.

[LtCol White]

Oh yes, I am really looking forward to the sewing on the Field Jacket! I appreciate all of the insight here guys.

Here is a simple solution...  Buy some Camo fabric to match- (Walmart or the local fabric store should have it).  Make a pattern using your velcro type epaulette covers from your blues.  Sew the insignia on the epaulette cover.  Slip it on the Field Jacket and pin it from the bottom with a safety pin so it won't slide around.  It looks much better than most I have seen sewn directly on the epaulette.

What you are suggesting is not an authorized uniform item.

[mikeylikey]

And it begins.  Uniform GODS please report to the Forum so we can get some bashing done!

[Al Sayre]

Oh yes, I am really looking forward to the sewing on the Field Jacket! I appreciate all of the insight here guys.

Here is a simple solution...  Buy some Camo fabric to match- (Walmart or the local fabric store should have it).  Make a pattern using your velcro type epaulette covers from your blues.  Sew the insignia on the epaulette cover.  Slip it on the Field Jacket and pin it from the bottom with a safety pin so it won't slide around.  It looks much better than most I have seen sewn directly on the epaulette.

What you are suggesting is not an authorized uniform item.

No but it ought to be...  sew it to epaulette and call it a field repair

[LtCol White]

Oh yes, I am really looking forward to the sewing on the Field Jacket! I appreciate all of the insight here guys.

Here is a simple solution...  Buy some Camo fabric to match- (Walmart or the local fabric store should have it).  Make a pattern using your velcro type epaulette covers from your blues.  Sew the insignia on the epaulette cover.  Slip it on the Field Jacket and pin it from the bottom with a safety pin so it won't slide around.  It looks much better than most I have seen sewn directly on the epaulette.

What you are suggesting is not an authorized uniform item.

No but it ought to be...  sew it to epaulette and call it a field repair

Your idea requires more work than taking the approved insignia and sewing in directly on the epaulet of the field jacket.

[O-Rex]

And the BDU caps are supposed to have rank on the front of them now, right? I think I read somewhere that it had been changed since the last revision of 39-1.

Yes - and THAT will definitely challenge your sewing ability, as will the epaulets on the M65.

If you are using a sewing machine, it's not that bad.  Field jacket epaulets are tough, though, since the insignia is real close to the shoulder seam.

Remember that if you are wearing BBDU's you can wear pin-on rank on the hat.  I sewed mine on anyway....

I'm going to try to sew velcro onto a CWU-45 jacket this weekend.

Someone asked why sew-on rank and badges aren't pre-folded: I went to an MCSS that stocked multiple service items, and Navy sew-on rank for BDU's comes pre-folded, and it looked like there was some light stitching to maintain the fold until it is actually sewn to a garment.  Looked pretty good.

Can Vanguard do that?  Probably.  Would you pay an exhorbitant sum for it?  Dunno.

[pixelwonk]

you'd pay about what you do for the Gortex slides, which are essentially what you've described.

[JCW0312]

I'm assuming "BBDUs" are the Blue BDU's... Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[O-Rex]

I'm assuming "BBDUs" are the Blue BDU's... Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, I'm talking about Blue BDU's

[JCW0312]

I've never really seen the BBDUs worn around my parts. I assume they must be popular somewhere since they're still around.

[Hawk200]

Can Vanguard do that?  Probably.  Would you pay an exhorbitant sum for it?  Dunno.

Probably would. It's Vanguard we're talking about. They would charge for the "convenience". Or else up the shipping fees.

[JCW0312]

Can Vanguard do that?  Probably.  Would you pay an exhorbitant sum for it?  Dunno.

Probably would. It's Vanguard we're talking about. They would charge for the "convenience". Or else up the shipping fees.

It would sure be nice though. I would pay a little for "convenience", but from what I've heard about Vanguard, our definitions of "a little" might differ.

[O-Rex]

I've never really seen the BBDUs worn around my parts. I assume they must be popular somewhere since they're still around.

Some do wear them: I just got a set (despite the fact that I hated them the first time I saw them, but eventually came around) meshes very nicely considering we do alot at the local Coast Guard Air Station.  They are also a bit more "Urban Friendly" then UDF-ing.

[JCW0312]

I can see the whole "urban friendly" side of it.

[MIKE]

Urban unfriendly if you look like the po po. 

[JayT]

I've never really seen the BBDUs worn around my parts. I assume they must be popular somewhere since they're still around.

I started wearing them when I turned eighteen because A. I was about ten pounds over the High/Weight limit, and B. I got embassed with people thanking me for being a soldier.

[davedove]

I've never really seen the BBDUs worn around my parts. I assume they must be popular somewhere since they're still around.

They are around.  I often see them in Maryland Wing, although even there they are in the minority.

I suspect what is really happening is that some of the folks in your area are wearing BDU's when they really shouldn't be (they might be a little overweight).

[JCW0312]

I think the BBDUs look okay, but am I the only one who thinks there are a few too many uniform choices in CAP? I would have to take out a second mortgage on my house if I wanted to collect them all...

[JCW0312]

Not to mention trying to keep up with the changes in all of the uniforms...

[CapnSuper]

Lemme go back a bit in the thread:

Remember that if you are wearing BBDU's you can wear pin-on rank on the hat.  I sewed mine on anyway....

Really?  I can't find a reference to that, and if I show up like that without documentation... well, let's just say that I should have documentation.  Can you provide a specific reference?  I'd rather NOT have to sew on that part of a cap.

Thanks,
CapnSuper

[jeders]

Lemme go back a bit in the thread:

Remember that if you are wearing BBDU's you can wear pin-on rank on the hat.  I sewed mine on anyway....

Really?  I can't find a reference to that, and if I show up like that without documentation... well, let's just say that I should have documentation.  Can you provide a specific reference?  I'd rather NOT have to sew on that part of a cap.

Thanks,
CapnSuper

It's at the bottom of one of the uniform change letters. I forget which one, but if you read through them you'll find it.

[Eclipse]

June '06 ICL.

"Secondly, senior members wearing the blue field uniform may now wear embroidered or metal grade insignia on the blue BDU cap..."

http://cap.gov/documents/2006_06_Corporate_Uniform_Changes.pdf

[CapnSuper]

sweet.

thanks!

[Eclipse]

Also, just for grins - its been pointed out to me that the use of the word "may", instead of "will" or "shall" indicated grade on the blue BDU cap is optional.  YMMV

[JCW0312]

Also, just for grins - its been pointed out to me that the use of the word "may", instead of "will" or "shall" indicated grade on the blue BDU cap is optional.  YMMV

I like the way you interpret things 

[JCW0312]

I got the cloth EMT badge in from Vanguard today. Mike, you were correct. It is thin like it's supposed to be, not thick like the Hock Shop's version.

Thanks all for your ideas and assistance!

[tjaxe]

For best results, I would highly recommend folding it.  When you fold it under, try to trim some of the excess away and iron it down, just watch those fingers!!!

If you don't fold it, the edges will fray unless you use one of those over edge stiching patterns they use on patches. (please don't )

As for the border, 1/8" is what you want all the way around.

Forgive my complete ignorance but I simply cannot find in what direction to sew the CAP insignia on the BDU lapels.    I've attached a picture with two options -- can someone tell me which to go with? 

Also, in regards to the pasted in quote I guess I shouldn't use "over the edge stiching."  If I don't do that then how much material should be on the outside of the "sew line," (or whatever it's called)? 

Thanks so much!! 

[_]

one on right is correct

[tjaxe]

Wow!  Thanks for the quick response!!   

[tjaxe]

Also, in regards to the pasted in quote I guess I shouldn't use "over the edge stiching."  If I don't do that then how much material should be on the outside of the "sew line," (or whatever it's called)? 

How should I sew the insignia on if it's prefered that the "over the edge stitch" isn't used?  Thanks!!!!!

[mikeylikey]

^ umm......an alteration shop, laundry etc.  Just Kidding, I think you use that "behind the shirt collar method".  You know, where you come up from underneath, instead of going through the blue first. 

Sorry I am not much help, but that is what I recall hearing once.  I should have paid attention in Home Economics class.

[Eclipse]

Also, in regards to the pasted in quote I guess I shouldn't use "over the edge stiching."  If I don't do that then how much material should be on the outside of the "sew line," (or whatever it's called)? 

How should I sew the insignia on if it's prefered that the "over the edge stitch" isn't used?  Thanks!!!!!

I'm not sure what you're asking, just fold it over so you have 1/8" of blue edge all the way around from the white letter.

Trim the excess so it's not too bulky underneath (you may not need to), and sew using a straight stitch from the top. 

The over-edge, or "embroidery" stitch looks nice when done right but is a bear to take off, and unless you are an NCO, you'll have to change it in 6 months.

Ironing the insignia to shape helps a lot, and I use iron-on sizing to place it instead of pins - makes it much easier to sew.

[tjaxe]

I should have paid attention in Home Economics class.

That's my problem!!  Home Ec definitely hit one ear and zoomed right out the other!

[tjaxe]

Also, in regards to the pasted in quote I guess I shouldn't use "over the edge stiching."  If I don't do that then how much material should be on the outside of the "sew line," (or whatever it's called)? 

How should I sew the insignia on if it's prefered that the "over the edge stitch" isn't used?  Thanks!!!!!

I'm not sure what you're asking, just fold it over so you have 1/8" of blue edge all the way around from the white letter.

Trim the excess so it's not too bulky underneath (you may not need to), and sew using a straight stitch from the top. 

The over-edge, or "embroidery" stitch looks nice when done right but is a bear to take off, and unless you are an NCO, you'll have to change it in 6 months.

Ironing the insignia to shape helps a lot, and I use iron-on sizing to place it instead of pins - makes it much easier to sew.

I think I got it now.  Thanks for your help!   

[Hawk200]

I should have paid attention in Home Economics class.

That's my problem!!  Home Ec definitely hit one ear and zoomed right out the other!

I learned to sew on my own. The school I went to wouldn't let guys take Home Ec. Issues about proper gender roles and all.

Even such, I save a lot of money sewing my own uniforms over the years.

[tjaxe]

^ Ah yes.  Proper gender roles.  Gotta love it.  But THAT'S a whole other topic.

[Hawk200]

^ Ah yes.  Proper gender roles.  Gotta love it.  But THAT'S a whole other topic.

No kidding.

[Eclipse]

I should have paid attention in Home Economics class.

That's my problem!!  Home Ec definitely hit one ear and zoomed right out the other!

I learned to sew on my own. The school I went to wouldn't let guys take Home Ec. Issues about proper gender roles and all.

Even such, I save a lot of money sewing my own uniforms over the years.

My wife did the sewing for years until one day I just sat down and read the instructions for the machine and haven't looked back since.  Our insignia can be laborious to align properly, and now I have no one to blame but myself if something isn't right.

Another tip regarding the iron-on sizing.  In a super-pinch, you can usually fudge a last-minute promotion using the heavy-duty stuff, but it won't survive a wash on the BDU's with the heavy cloth they use.

The other thing you can do, if you don't have access to your own machine, is iron-on everything in place and then just take it to the tailer and say "stitch this all down please".

[Hawk200]

The other thing you can do, if you don't have access to your own machine, is iron-on everything in place and then just take it to the tailer and say "stitch this all down please".

Hadn't thought of that, but that's a really good idea.

[tjaxe]

The other thing you can do, if you don't have access to your own machine, is iron-on everything in place and then just take it to the tailer and say "stitch this all down please".

Hadn't thought of that, but that's a really good idea.

AWESOME IDEA!!!  (sorry for screaming... just excited!)   

[MIKE]

I'm a little leery of using Stitch Witch on stuff you might need to take off before replacing the uniform... Even the wing patches tend to leave a little residue if you aren't real careful.

[Eclipse]

I've never had much problem with it.

The wing patches left blue stains from the thread on a couple of my shirts, but after a wash or two on the BDU's they were fine.

I haven't seen anything from the sizing like you see on enlisted shirts from DRMO where yo can see all the detail of the insignia even after removal.