Blue Beret

[mikeylikey]

^  They are in the process of inventing new awardable items at Hawk. I kid you NOT.

Oh my gosh, this is unbelievable.  Does the military come up with awardable items for training outside of berets, badges, patches and ribbons?  No! 

This whole colored pistol belts, orange hats, colored scarves and medic tabs thing is the result of a wannabe-ranger attitude that has prevailed at Hawk Mountain for many years.  I don't know if I'm beating a dead horse or singing with the choir, but something's gotta give. 

Is it just me, or do people go to Hawk these days more for the bling than for the training that is offered?  You have to wonder about all these awardable items.      

I think they are hoping the BLING will get more people to attend.  HAWK had a total of 178 at the summer school 2 months ago.  Out of the 178, 49 were staff, 16 were NHQ attendees.  SO add the numbers up, and you come up with a small group of students.  Almost not worth funding the school......right??

[Eagle400]

I think they are hoping the BLING will get more people to attend.  HAWK had a total of 178 at the summer school 2 months ago.  Out of the 178, 49 were staff, 16 were NHQ attendees.  SO add the numbers up, and you come up with a small group of students.  Almost not worth funding the school......right??

It will be interesting to see how many students were from Pennsylvania vs.  how many were from other states.  I think that should determine whether or not the school should be funded (at least as a national activity). 

[Flying Pig]

^Side note.....Spade guy.....  With the symbol it doesnt allow me to PM you.  It says reciepient is not recognizable. 

Back on topic...Its a sad commentary to think that we must offer fancy uniform items and berets to get the numbers up on acitivities.  People are becoming self absorbed with the "look at me" mentality.  I say go with the Marine Corps style of recognition. For the most part, you wouldn't be able to tell a Force Recon Marine from a Data Entry clerk  (expect for maybe the biceps).
Yeah, I know, awards are a great motivator.  But I think its a tell tale sign of what the motivation really is to attend these activities, and Id say its pretty obvious that learning the skill takes a back seat to fancy uniform items. 

[floridacyclist]

This whole colored pistol belts, orange hats, colored scarves and medic tabs thing is the result of a wannabe-ranger attitude that has prevailed at Hawk Mountain for many years.  I don't know if I'm beating a dead horse or singing with the coir, but something's gotta give. 

Is it just me, or do people go to Hawk these days more for the bling than for the training that is offered?  You have to wonder about all these awardable items.      

My kids go for the leadership training and because they enjoy it...the only time they wear their bling is for special occassions or Ranger events for opening and closing formation. I know it has made a huge difference in their outlook on CAP and life in general...they've started promoting and both came from Cs, Ds, and Fs to Honor Roll.

[mikeylikey]

I think they are hoping the BLING will get more people to attend.  HAWK had a total of 178 at the summer school 2 months ago.  Out of the 178, 49 were staff, 16 were NHQ attendees.  SO add the numbers up, and you come up with a small group of students.  Almost not worth funding the school......right??

It will be interesting to see how many students were from Pennsylvania vs.  how many were from other states.  I think that should determine whether or not the school should be funded (at least as a national activity). 

62 were basic students from PAWG.  So, if that trends continues......why should the organization drop the money on that mountain.  Instead....if we really wanted this Ranger thing to go on, perhaps open a school in each Region instead.  PLUS the schools can and should be conducted at military installations.  Better facilities would be the minimum benefit!

[CadetProgramGuy]

I think they are hoping the BLING will get more people to attend.  HAWK had a total of 178 at the summer school 2 months ago.  Out of the 178, 49 were staff, 16 were NHQ attendees.  SO add the numbers up, and you come up with a small group of students.  Almost not worth funding the school......right??

It will be interesting to see how many students were from Pennsylvania vs.  how many were from other states.  I think that should determine whether or not the school should be funded (at least as a national activity). 

62 were basic students from PAWG.  So, if that trends continues......why should the organization drop the money on that mountain.  Instead....if we really wanted this Ranger thing to go on, perhaps open a school in each Region instead.  PLUS the schools can and should be conducted at military installations.  Better facilities would be the minimum benefit!

51 os the final number from outside wings.

BUT if you look at final numbers then 178 is not bad for an encampment.  Heck at NCR in 2006 when Iowa had it, we had 120 in attendance.  NEWG has it this year, IAWG has it in 2009, by then I hope to get 200 for a Basic.

Bumping myself back on topic.  How many went to NBB?  What about the rest of the NSCA's.  Where can I view the data?

[SJFedor]

I heard somewhere around 300 at NESA this year.

NESA MAS itself had somewhere around 50 students, plus 15-20 instructors and operations staff, and 5-10 support staff.

[Stonewall]

I think I should be allowed to wear a maroon beret because I have jump wings; black beret because I was in the Army and a blue beret because I am now Security Police in the Air Guard.  I should also be allowed to wear my infantry cord on my blues as well as water wings for water survival school.  In fact, I need a badge that looks like bunny ears because I went to SERE school.  And if nothing else, I need to wear a gold pistol belt because I was commandant of the advanced GSAR course at NESA in '99.  [[darn]] it, I want BLING!!!!!!

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

[Eagle400]

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

[Becks]

Bumping myself back on topic.  How many went to NBB?  What about the rest of the NSCA's.  Where can I view the data?

Well about 10 flights with roughly 13-15 cadets per flight plus a TAC.   Then add the rest of the support staff on-top of that.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Bumping myself back on topic.  How many went to NBB?  What about the rest of the NSCA's.  Where can I view the data?

Well about 10 flights with roughly 13-15 cadets per flight plus a TAC.   Then add the rest of the support staff on-top of that.

10*15=150 add another 40 for staff?

190-200 is a good number.  I'll just have to go myself next year.......

[Hawk200]

In fact, I need a badge that looks like bunny ears because I went to SERE school. 

You think the SERE school might consider "The rabbit died!" as a new motto? 

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

I'd throw a third "in favor" on that one. Start with the little stuff, then work on reducing some other things.

As for Hawk Mountain, I didn't mind the tabs or the arm patch. It was OK, looked a little different, but it kinda worked. But orange hat, orange undershirt, pistol belt, white gloves, and white boot laces was excessive. That kind of stuff actually crossed the line into unprofessional. Tabs and such indicated certain qualifications, the other stuff simply screamed "Look at me!".

[alamrcn]

Comments on several earlier posts...

White pistol belts, inf blue ascots, white laces etc were parade uniforms at Hawk, worn at graduation only when I was there. Not far from a colorguard unifrom, and I don't see this any different than what happens at any encampment. Staff and instructors are identified with unique uniform items at any mass CAP activity, and they are usually worn only during that activity. A beret would be an exception there I guess.

The black pistol belt signifing an Expert Ranger is not an easy uniform item to earn... yes, EARN. I would consider it the Spaatz of ground ES.

So hawk only had 60-something students, big deal. Hopefully all of them will go back to their units and teach the skills - like the school tells them to. How many students attend National Flight Academy? What does it cost National? How many go back and teach flying at their units? Is the solo badge awarded there worthless bling (getting sick of that word)?

Keep the activity going, fund and promote it on a national level - it IS worth it.

As long as there are standards and consistancy, who cares if there are 1000 different awards and insignias out there? You can only wear so many, and a member can choose to wear the one(s) that are most improtant to them - not to someone else.

-Ace

[Hawk200]

White pistol belts and inf blue ascots were parade uniforms at Hawk, worn at graduation only. I don't see this any different than any encampment. Staff and instructors are identified with unique uniform items (getting sick of that word) at any mass CAP activity, and they are usually worn only during that activity. A beret would be an exception there I guess.

Seen a few people well outside of PA wing wearing their bling. Guess they're not being told not to do that, or have decided to ignore that advice.

The black pistol belt signifing an Expert Ranger is not an easy uniform item to earn... yes, EARN. I would consider it the Spaatz of ground ES.

I can appreciate that it's earned, but they had an Expert Ranger tab. What need is there for a belt as well? Both signify the same accomplishement, only one is needed.

Are the still tabs allowed? Read somewhere that someone said they weren't being worn. If they aren't, then it seems like they went for the more obvious item instead of the subtle one.

As long as there are standards and consistancy, who cares if there are 1000 different awards out there? You can only wear so many, and a member can choose to wear the one(s) that are most improtant to them - not to someone else.

The point of qualification insignia is to show others your accomplishments. Not very effective if others don't know what they are. It's like submitting your resume in Swahili. If the people reading it don't understand, then the content is a moot point.

I understand that people work hard for things. But if anyone that looks at them doesn't have any clue what the accomplishement is, then it's just "Look at me!" bling.

[Stonewall]

How many students attend National Flight Academy? What does it cost National? How many go back and teach flying at their units? Is the solo badge awarded there worthless bling (getting sick of that word)?

It's a solo badge, a single badge.  It is not a hat, tshirt, belt, whistle, patch, tab and scarf.  It is a single item.

Hawk could be called a "follow on" school, for those seeking to achieve advanced GT skills.  Its purpose is to enhance skills, teach some advanced skills, and challenge people in a field environment.

PJOC graduates leave with what?  An NCSA patch.  I'm confident that more PJOC grads could make it through Hawk than the opposite.  

PJOC sets the right example of how an NCSA should be.  You never ever see arguments like this about PJOC.  It's a touch, challenging course with an attrition rate.  No fanfare or "BLING", just the pride of knowing you made it.

[alamrcn]

PJOC graduates leave with what?  No fanfare or "BLING", just the pride of knowing you made it.

Again, all that "parade stuff" is for there - at the activity. Anyone wearing it to a BFE Composite Squadron meeting is WRONG and should be corrected.

I've seen PJOC grads wearing their "push-up" baseball caps around! Long ago, the PJs gave cadets little chrome and red pins - small versions of the beret crest. Wise cadets would were it under their service coat lapel, however some tried to sneek it in on the pocket or above the ribbon rack. Geez, some continue to hump part of a parachutte in their ES gear like it's PJ Bling or something.

I don't think any of that holds harm to the activity, but the former antendee needs to be corrected and reminded that they are not at the activity now.

-Ace

[Falshrmjgr]

They need a winter course at Hawk, so they can sew the tab on with white thread.

(Some of you will get that...)

[Stonewall]

I went to Winter Hawk in 2002.

[SAR-EMT1]

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

^ What they said!

[Eclipse]

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

How, exactly, would you wear service dress without bling?

So what would we do for a year?  No promotions, professional development, emergency services qualifications, or cadet achievements? 

Only "...flight suits, BDUs and service dress..."?  That's wear the bling >goes<.

How about golf shirts only for a year, with formal civilian attire for formal occasions?
Jeans and CAP t-shirts could be worn for field work.

100% Corporate for a calendar year. There's your test.