Blue Beret

[CadetProgramGuy]

I saw this on the website:  http://www.blueberet.org/historyoftheberet.htm



Members of the Civil Air Patrol who attend National Blue Beret (NBB) in Oshkosh, Wisconsin during the EAA AirVenture airshow can earn blue berets along with the Saint Alban's Cross, and the title of Blue Beret. Members of the Indiana Wing who achieve the classification of Ground Team Member level 2 (GTM2) are also awarded blue berets. CAP members who attend Hawk Mountain Ranger School and achieve the Advanced Ranger level are awarded black berets.

I know this is not to be true anymore, but how long ago was this the case?

[Eclipse]

It can't have been that long, we've only had GT 1-2-3 since what, 2004?

[CadetProgramGuy]

I realize that  part, but I have been in CAP for 5 years, and I have only known about the Hawk Mtn garb and Blue Berets

[IceNine]

IIRC the NB approved the blue beret for nationwide wear in the last couple years.

They may have also approved the Ranger tabs. 

I will look when I get home from class tonight.

[floridacyclist]

They did approve the Ranger tabs..actually, they approved all items awarded by Hawk Mountain and NBB to be worn with BDUs only. I have never heard of a black beret in CAP or any kind of beret for Hawk. I also seem to recall that blue is the only color authorized for a beret per 39-1.

My 15yo Hawk Mountain staffer just stumbled into the room so I asked him what they were told they could wear... he said orange t-shirt and hat, tab over "Civil Air Patrol" tape, silver whistle and chain, ascotte, white pistol belt with brass eyelets, and HMRS (or FL Wing in our case) "LL" Ranger patch on left pocket.

Thank God they don't wear all that crap unless they're playing with the Ranger School...usually it's just the patch and orange hat, which our wing DO is wanting to get approved for everyone for field use.

[mikeylikey]

They did approve the Ranger tabs..actually, they approved all items awarded by Hawk Mountain and NBB to be worn with BDUs only. I have never heard of a black beret in CAP or any kind of beret for Hawk. I also seem to recall that blue is the only color authorized for a beret per 39-1.

My 15yo Hawk Mountain staffer just stumbled into the room so I asked him what they were told they could wear... he said orange t-shirt and hat, tab over "Civil Air Patrol" tape, silver whistle and chain, ascotte, white pistol belt with brass eyelets, and HMRS (or FL Wing in our case) "LL" Ranger patch on left pocket.

Thank God they don't wear all that crap unless they're playing with the Ranger School...usually it's just the patch and orange hat, which our wing DO is wanting to get approved for everyone for field use.

no..........stay away from the orange hats.  Once you get them you can never get rid of them.  They are like a curse, they also are more expensive then bdu covers.

[Eclipse]

They are like a curse, they also are more expensive then bdu covers.

$2.99 at Bass Pro shops for good-quality blaze-orange hats - I have it for deep forest use, stays in the gear box otherwise.

All this stuff that's "off the books" as it were, is worn only at the pleasure and with the authorization of the host activity and/or host state. Otherwise leave it at home - and your best bet, if you plan on wearing something non-standard to an activity outside your home unit/state, is to either ask the activity commander, or bring the standard gear as well.

Nothing gets you a return invite to an activity like an argument when you get off the bus about what color t-shirt you can wear.

Berets were approved for local unit wear, with the concurrence of the unit commander, for grads of Blue Beret and HMRS, with BDU's only.  Standard CAP-Blue only with the NBB St. Alban's cross as flash (not grade, and no one has yet seen anything on wearing the MAJCOM in writing).

Common sense would tell you, as well as Army people in our area, that this is a garrison cap, not a field cap - not only will it not protect you like a BDU cap, it will get ruined in the field as well.

[cnitas]

Berets were approved for local unit wear, with the concurrence of the unit commander, for grads of Blue Beret and HMRS, with BDU's only.  Standard CAP-Blue only with the NBB St. Alban's cross as flash (not grade, and no one has yet seen anything on wearing the MAJCOM in writing).

Is this official now?  I have only seen the National Board vote, which was rather vague.  Has there been a policy letter or manual change posted?  We have both NBB and Hawk grads that are chomping at the bit to wear their stuff, but we have been waiting for official guidance.

[floridacyclist]

Gen Pineda was at one of our meetings and was asked about that...he said go for it....that once it was voted on and published, it was as good as regs.

Of course, I'm not sure how much weight he carries now.

[mikeylikey]

^  I would not go on that.  I would rather go on a policy letter or even better a NEW 39-1   What is the hold up??  I along with a  few others had written a letter to NHQ and offered to make the new 39-1.  We outlined it and offered huge suggestions.  It would be formatted way differently and be much easier to use.  The wording would not be vague and the pictures would be black and white drawings, not pictures of people.  It would show more detail.  We also would include "how to" sections ranging from rolling sleeves to care of boots. 

What answer did we get "We are currently looking at outsourcing the production of CAP materials". 

My question.......why are we paying people at NHQ to not do what they are supposed to be doing??

[CadetProgramGuy]

We have a PM From our Wing CC clearing the way for Hawk Mtn and Blue Baret acquired gear.

Ranger rolls and Berets are good as far as I know.

[mikeylikey]

We have a PM From our Wing CC clearing the way for Hawk Mtn and Blue Beret acquired gear.

Ranger rolls and Berets are good as far as I know.

I have serious problems with "ranger rolls".  That is illegal according to 39-1, NO Commander at any level can change that unless it is changed in 39-1.  There is no clause for commanders to authorize ranger rolls. 

[CadetProgramGuy]

We have a PM From our Wing CC clearing the way for Hawk Mtn and Blue Beret acquired gear.

Ranger rolls and Berets are good as far as I know.

I have serious problems with "ranger rolls".  That is illegal according to 39-1, NO Commander at any level can change that unless it is changed in 39-1.  There is no clause for commanders to authorize ranger rolls. 

Trust me I had issues with it until August Boards said you could.  When I have the linky figured out I will post it here for you.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Here you go.  <a href="http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1851&p_created=1158847849&p_sid=tzkosTLi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PWRmbHQmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTU0JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1ibHVlIGJlcmV0cw**&p_li=&p_topview=1>August 2006 Boards, Agenda 19

[mikeylikey]

^  It is actually written that cadets can roll thier hats?  Is it just cadets and officers who went to HAWK or can EVERYONE?  Because a ranger roll is not just a HAWK MTN thing, right?

[mikeylikey]

Here you go.  <a href="http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1851&p_created=1158847849&p_sid=tzkosTLi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PWRmbHQmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTU0JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1ibHVlIGJlcmV0cw**&p_li=&p_topview=1>August 2006 Boards, Agenda 19

Nothing about rolling headgear.  So yes you can wear your school specific bling, but still NO you can't ranger roll your hat.  Ranger rolled hats are not an awarded item from any CAP activity.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I found the PM from my Wing CC, I can PM it if you want to see it.  Not sure If I can post it here though.

[mikeylikey]

Speaking of awarding hawk and BB items, the Ranger School OIC has said to me "I am going to see what else we can invent, so we can wear more" It was said jokingly, but I have a funny feeling that he meant it.

[Becks]

Speaking of awarding hawk and BB items, the Ranger School OIC has said to me "I am going to see what else we can invent, so we can wear more" It was said jokingly, but I have a funny feeling that he meant it.

Find me my vomit smiley please...

And in regard to the MAJCOM on our NBB's...those of us who were there this year were given a very clear and direct verbal order from the director saying to wear them.

[mikeylikey]

I like the idea of wearing the MAJCOM.......but written somewhere?

[Becks]

I like the idea of wearing the MAJCOM.......but written somewhere?

I dont, it holds no tradition for NBB.  However since we were told to wear the MAJCOM by both Nat CC and Activity CC I will.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I like the idea of wearing the MAJCOM.......but written somewhere?

I dont, it holds no tradition for NBB.  However since we were told to wear the MAJCOM by both Nat CC and Activity CC I will.

Is it backed by the St. Albin's Flash?

[CadetProgramGuy]

I like the idea of wearing the MAJCOM.......but written somewhere?

I dont, it holds no tradition for NBB.  However since we were told to wear the MAJCOM by both Nat CC and Activity CC I will.

Is it backed by the St. Albin's Flash?

speaking of the Flash....Didn't I see one posted here not to long ago?

[Eagle400]

I dont, it holds no tradition for NBB.  However since we were told to wear the MAJCOM by both Nat CC and Activity CC I will.

Oh great.  So just because the National CC and the Activity CC do it wrong makes it okay?

Man, the general-who-shall-not-be-named sure has set quite a negative precedent.  What's next, blue berets for everybody? 

And why does he get to wear the blue beret if he's never graduated from the activity?  That kind of diminishes the value of wearing the beret, don't you think?       

[CadetProgramGuy]

MS Paint produced this....

[mikeylikey]

^  Wrong MAJCOM, but thanks for posting.     I think that looks silly.  Keep the beret without adding the MAJCOM would be best.

[CadetProgramGuy]

ok dumb question.  Which majcom is the correct one?  With the US or With out the US?

[AlphaSigOU]

ok dumb question.  Which majcom is the correct one?  With the US or With out the US?

Either is OK, until 1 April 2008, when the U.S. CAP command patch is official.

Save your U.S. Air Force Auxiliary command patches, boys, they might make a comeback! 

[Becks]

Tony was made an honorary Beret...trust me Im not happy about it either.  It would be nice to have an Alban's flash but currently its just the MAJCOM by itself.  Search the forum, I already posted pics of which MAJCOM it is.

[floridacyclist]

I know he earned his ranger card too this past Summer....but I don't know how honorary that was. I somehow just don't see some 16yo staffer correcting him on his waterknots or him playing 3-ball soccer at 6AM LOL

[mikeylikey]

I know he earned his ranger card too this past Summer....but I don't know how honorary that was. I somehow just don't see some 16yo staffer correcting him on his waterknots or him playing 3-ball soccer at 6AM LOL

It was strictly honorary.  The PAWG newsletter (which is crap btw) had a write up about a bunch of them "earning" honorary ranger grades and badges.

[cnitas]

"FOLLOW-ON ACTION: National Headquarters implementation of policy, notification to the field and change to appropriate CAP regulations."

So far, except for "implementation of policy" (whatever that means), none of these things has happened.  Even the knowledgebase answer says "partially true" (it did not specify which part of the question was true).

A policy letter would take about 15 minutes to write and email...so where is it?

[mikeylikey]

^  Sitting on Pineda's desk.  I have a feeling there are a lot of things sitting on his desk that the acting Commander does not want to touch due to political and "other" reasons.  Don't forget Courter was never Pineda's choice, she has said that herself.

[Matt]

Speaking of awarding hawk and BB items, the Ranger School OIC has said to me "I am going to see what else we can invent, so we can wear more" It was said jokingly, but I have a funny feeling that he meant it.

Find me my vomit smiley please...

[...]

As wrong as it is... here you are...

http://smileyworld.com/dictionary/images/smileys/Actions/Vomit.gif (I didn't make it a smiley because... well... it's just to... pukey...)

Or

[jimmydeanno]

^I always liked this one:

[alamrcn]

Real quick...

You can wear items awarded at National Blue Beret and Hawk Mountain Ranger School.

Ok, National Blue Beret...

If you attended this activity in 1990 or previous, the awarded beret would not qualify to be worn now since those schools were GLR and NCR BB activities. Berets awarded from 1995 (the first NCSA) to present can be worn. Right?

And Hawk...

The orange hat, white pistol belt, and infantry blue ascot are a Hawk UNIFORM - they are not awarded. The black pistol belt, however, is awarded. Hawk was only a "National Special Activity" for one or maybe two years before it was set back to being a PAWG activity. However, it continues to be a "nationally recognized" activity - I know, semantics. IIRC, all the tab insignia were discontinued when the activity went National except for the LL (R/1) shoulder patch. I didn't think the tabs ever came back after that. If that is true, no one can wear them, right?

It is possible to decipher this pending regulation, but they REALLY need to make lists!

-Ace

[Eclipse]

According to NHQ, HMRS is NCSA.

http://level2.cap.gov/index.cfm?nodeID=5388

Based on the interim change letters, etc., what you can wear from HMRS is the same blue beret as NBB participants, and the HMRS patch on the left shirt pocket as one of the optional insignia.

Period.

[alamrcn]

According to NHQ, HMRS is NCSA.

You're right, they do call it a NCSA after all. But the only one not run by National, and the website even says in bold red, "Note:  Hawk applications are NOT handled by NHQ." Guess it was just the name that changed after that one or two years, dropping the word "National" from the school's title.

At the very bottom of the page linked above, right above the "Fees" part, it says...

-Students who successfully complete the school can wear the NCSA ribbon and school "LL Insignia" and any other earned insignia.

Wonder what the "other" insignia means? Maybe the "staff" rocker under the LL patch, but it is almost inconceivable for an out-of-the-area member to become staff due to the many training commitments.

-Ace

[mikeylikey]

^  They are in the process of inventing new awardable items at Hawk. I kid you NOT.

[Eagle400]

^  They are in the process of inventing new awardable items at Hawk. I kid you NOT.

Oh my gosh, this is unbelieveable.  Does the military come up with awardable items for training outside of berets, badges, patches and ribbons?  No! 

This whole colored pistol belts, orange hats, colored scarves and medic tabs thing is the result of a wannabe-ranger attitude that has prevailed at Hawk Mountain for many years.  I don't know if I'm beating a dead horse or singing with the coir, but something's gotta give. 

Is it just me, or do people go to Hawk these days more for the bling than for the training that is offered?  You have to wonder about all these awardable items.      

[mikeylikey]

^  They are in the process of inventing new awardable items at Hawk. I kid you NOT.

Oh my gosh, this is unbelievable.  Does the military come up with awardable items for training outside of berets, badges, patches and ribbons?  No! 

This whole colored pistol belts, orange hats, colored scarves and medic tabs thing is the result of a wannabe-ranger attitude that has prevailed at Hawk Mountain for many years.  I don't know if I'm beating a dead horse or singing with the choir, but something's gotta give. 

Is it just me, or do people go to Hawk these days more for the bling than for the training that is offered?  You have to wonder about all these awardable items.      

I think they are hoping the BLING will get more people to attend.  HAWK had a total of 178 at the summer school 2 months ago.  Out of the 178, 49 were staff, 16 were NHQ attendees.  SO add the numbers up, and you come up with a small group of students.  Almost not worth funding the school......right??

[Eagle400]

I think they are hoping the BLING will get more people to attend.  HAWK had a total of 178 at the summer school 2 months ago.  Out of the 178, 49 were staff, 16 were NHQ attendees.  SO add the numbers up, and you come up with a small group of students.  Almost not worth funding the school......right??

It will be interesting to see how many students were from Pennsylvania vs.  how many were from other states.  I think that should determine whether or not the school should be funded (at least as a national activity). 

[Flying Pig]

^Side note.....Spade guy.....  With the symbol it doesnt allow me to PM you.  It says reciepient is not recognizable. 

Back on topic...Its a sad commentary to think that we must offer fancy uniform items and berets to get the numbers up on acitivities.  People are becoming self absorbed with the "look at me" mentality.  I say go with the Marine Corps style of recognition. For the most part, you wouldn't be able to tell a Force Recon Marine from a Data Entry clerk  (expect for maybe the biceps).
Yeah, I know, awards are a great motivator.  But I think its a tell tale sign of what the motivation really is to attend these activities, and Id say its pretty obvious that learning the skill takes a back seat to fancy uniform items. 

[floridacyclist]

This whole colored pistol belts, orange hats, colored scarves and medic tabs thing is the result of a wannabe-ranger attitude that has prevailed at Hawk Mountain for many years.  I don't know if I'm beating a dead horse or singing with the coir, but something's gotta give. 

Is it just me, or do people go to Hawk these days more for the bling than for the training that is offered?  You have to wonder about all these awardable items.      

My kids go for the leadership training and because they enjoy it...the only time they wear their bling is for special occassions or Ranger events for opening and closing formation. I know it has made a huge difference in their outlook on CAP and life in general...they've started promoting and both came from Cs, Ds, and Fs to Honor Roll.

[mikeylikey]

I think they are hoping the BLING will get more people to attend.  HAWK had a total of 178 at the summer school 2 months ago.  Out of the 178, 49 were staff, 16 were NHQ attendees.  SO add the numbers up, and you come up with a small group of students.  Almost not worth funding the school......right??

It will be interesting to see how many students were from Pennsylvania vs.  how many were from other states.  I think that should determine whether or not the school should be funded (at least as a national activity). 

62 were basic students from PAWG.  So, if that trends continues......why should the organization drop the money on that mountain.  Instead....if we really wanted this Ranger thing to go on, perhaps open a school in each Region instead.  PLUS the schools can and should be conducted at military installations.  Better facilities would be the minimum benefit!

[CadetProgramGuy]

I think they are hoping the BLING will get more people to attend.  HAWK had a total of 178 at the summer school 2 months ago.  Out of the 178, 49 were staff, 16 were NHQ attendees.  SO add the numbers up, and you come up with a small group of students.  Almost not worth funding the school......right??

It will be interesting to see how many students were from Pennsylvania vs.  how many were from other states.  I think that should determine whether or not the school should be funded (at least as a national activity). 

62 were basic students from PAWG.  So, if that trends continues......why should the organization drop the money on that mountain.  Instead....if we really wanted this Ranger thing to go on, perhaps open a school in each Region instead.  PLUS the schools can and should be conducted at military installations.  Better facilities would be the minimum benefit!

51 os the final number from outside wings.

BUT if you look at final numbers then 178 is not bad for an encampment.  Heck at NCR in 2006 when Iowa had it, we had 120 in attendance.  NEWG has it this year, IAWG has it in 2009, by then I hope to get 200 for a Basic.

Bumping myself back on topic.  How many went to NBB?  What about the rest of the NSCA's.  Where can I view the data?

[SJFedor]

I heard somewhere around 300 at NESA this year.

NESA MAS itself had somewhere around 50 students, plus 15-20 instructors and operations staff, and 5-10 support staff.

[Stonewall]

I think I should be allowed to wear a maroon beret because I have jump wings; black beret because I was in the Army and a blue beret because I am now Security Police in the Air Guard.  I should also be allowed to wear my infantry cord on my blues as well as water wings for water survival school.  In fact, I need a badge that looks like bunny ears because I went to SERE school.  And if nothing else, I need to wear a gold pistol belt because I was commandant of the advanced GSAR course at NESA in '99.  [[darn]] it, I want BLING!!!!!!

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

[Eagle400]

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

[Becks]

Bumping myself back on topic.  How many went to NBB?  What about the rest of the NSCA's.  Where can I view the data?

Well about 10 flights with roughly 13-15 cadets per flight plus a TAC.   Then add the rest of the support staff on-top of that.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Bumping myself back on topic.  How many went to NBB?  What about the rest of the NSCA's.  Where can I view the data?

Well about 10 flights with roughly 13-15 cadets per flight plus a TAC.   Then add the rest of the support staff on-top of that.

10*15=150 add another 40 for staff?

190-200 is a good number.  I'll just have to go myself next year.......

[Hawk200]

In fact, I need a badge that looks like bunny ears because I went to SERE school. 

You think the SERE school might consider "The rabbit died!" as a new motto? 

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

I'd throw a third "in favor" on that one. Start with the little stuff, then work on reducing some other things.

As for Hawk Mountain, I didn't mind the tabs or the arm patch. It was OK, looked a little different, but it kinda worked. But orange hat, orange undershirt, pistol belt, white gloves, and white boot laces was excessive. That kind of stuff actually crossed the line into unprofessional. Tabs and such indicated certain qualifications, the other stuff simply screamed "Look at me!".

[alamrcn]

Comments on several earlier posts...

White pistol belts, inf blue ascots, white laces etc were parade uniforms at Hawk, worn at graduation only when I was there. Not far from a colorguard unifrom, and I don't see this any different than what happens at any encampment. Staff and instructors are identified with unique uniform items at any mass CAP activity, and they are usually worn only during that activity. A beret would be an exception there I guess.

The black pistol belt signifing an Expert Ranger is not an easy uniform item to earn... yes, EARN. I would consider it the Spaatz of ground ES.

So hawk only had 60-something students, big deal. Hopefully all of them will go back to their units and teach the skills - like the school tells them to. How many students attend National Flight Academy? What does it cost National? How many go back and teach flying at their units? Is the solo badge awarded there worthless bling (getting sick of that word)?

Keep the activity going, fund and promote it on a national level - it IS worth it.

As long as there are standards and consistancy, who cares if there are 1000 different awards and insignias out there? You can only wear so many, and a member can choose to wear the one(s) that are most improtant to them - not to someone else.

-Ace

[Hawk200]

White pistol belts and inf blue ascots were parade uniforms at Hawk, worn at graduation only. I don't see this any different than any encampment. Staff and instructors are identified with unique uniform items (getting sick of that word) at any mass CAP activity, and they are usually worn only during that activity. A beret would be an exception there I guess.

Seen a few people well outside of PA wing wearing their bling. Guess they're not being told not to do that, or have decided to ignore that advice.

The black pistol belt signifing an Expert Ranger is not an easy uniform item to earn... yes, EARN. I would consider it the Spaatz of ground ES.

I can appreciate that it's earned, but they had an Expert Ranger tab. What need is there for a belt as well? Both signify the same accomplishement, only one is needed.

Are the still tabs allowed? Read somewhere that someone said they weren't being worn. If they aren't, then it seems like they went for the more obvious item instead of the subtle one.

As long as there are standards and consistancy, who cares if there are 1000 different awards out there? You can only wear so many, and a member can choose to wear the one(s) that are most improtant to them - not to someone else.

The point of qualification insignia is to show others your accomplishments. Not very effective if others don't know what they are. It's like submitting your resume in Swahili. If the people reading it don't understand, then the content is a moot point.

I understand that people work hard for things. But if anyone that looks at them doesn't have any clue what the accomplishement is, then it's just "Look at me!" bling.

[Stonewall]

How many students attend National Flight Academy? What does it cost National? How many go back and teach flying at their units? Is the solo badge awarded there worthless bling (getting sick of that word)?

It's a solo badge, a single badge.  It is not a hat, tshirt, belt, whistle, patch, tab and scarf.  It is a single item.

Hawk could be called a "follow on" school, for those seeking to achieve advanced GT skills.  Its purpose is to enhance skills, teach some advanced skills, and challenge people in a field environment.

PJOC graduates leave with what?  An NCSA patch.  I'm confident that more PJOC grads could make it through Hawk than the opposite.  

PJOC sets the right example of how an NCSA should be.  You never ever see arguments like this about PJOC.  It's a touch, challenging course with an attrition rate.  No fanfare or "BLING", just the pride of knowing you made it.

[alamrcn]

PJOC graduates leave with what?  No fanfare or "BLING", just the pride of knowing you made it.

Again, all that "parade stuff" is for there - at the activity. Anyone wearing it to a BFE Composite Squadron meeting is WRONG and should be corrected.

I've seen PJOC grads wearing their "push-up" baseball caps around! Long ago, the PJs gave cadets little chrome and red pins - small versions of the beret crest. Wise cadets would were it under their service coat lapel, however some tried to sneek it in on the pocket or above the ribbon rack. Geez, some continue to hump part of a parachutte in their ES gear like it's PJ Bling or something.

I don't think any of that holds harm to the activity, but the former antendee needs to be corrected and reminded that they are not at the activity now.

-Ace

[Falshrmjgr]

They need a winter course at Hawk, so they can sew the tab on with white thread.

(Some of you will get that...)

[Stonewall]

I went to Winter Hawk in 2002.

[SAR-EMT1]

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

^ What they said!

[Eclipse]

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

How, exactly, would you wear service dress without bling?

So what would we do for a year?  No promotions, professional development, emergency services qualifications, or cadet achievements? 

Only "...flight suits, BDUs and service dress..."?  That's wear the bling >goes<.

How about golf shirts only for a year, with formal civilian attire for formal occasions?
Jeans and CAP t-shirts could be worn for field work.

100% Corporate for a calendar year. There's your test.

[Hawk200]

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

How, exactly, would you wear service dress without bling?

So what would we do for a year?  No promotions, professional development, emergency services qualifications, or cadet achievements? 

Only "...flight suits, BDUs and service dress..."?  That's wear the bling >goes<.

How about golf shirts only for a year, with formal civilian attire for formal occasions?
Jeans and CAP t-shirts could be worn for field work.

100% Corporate for a calendar year. There's your test.

I don't think that's what he meant. I believe his point was not to create anything new for a year.

[Pace]

We need to do a CAP gut check.  No bling for one year.  Let's see who stays and who goes.  Only allow folks to wear flight suits, BDUs and service dress.  See who sticks around.... grrrr...

How, exactly, would you wear service dress without bling?

So what would we do for a year?  No promotions, professional development, emergency services qualifications, or cadet achievements? 

Only "...flight suits, BDUs and service dress..."?  That's wear the bling >goes<.

How about golf shirts only for a year, with formal civilian attire for formal occasions?
Jeans and CAP t-shirts could be worn for field work.

100% Corporate for a calendar year. There's your test.

I dunno.  I kinda like his idea (and I'm a proponent for blingage, within reason).  Name, branch tape (on BDU), and rank (possibly - otherwise go back to CAP cutouts).  For service dress (because I know this question is coming), vanguard does make blank slides for SMs, and cadets don't have to wear anything on their epaulet (assuming they even have epaulets on their SD).  Do it just look enough (without releasing when the period will end) to root out those who are only in CAP to look/feel important.  Maybe we can get focused on retention (since recruiting isn't our greatest problem), participation outside of the squadron, mission efficiency, etc.

Crazy idea.  I'll never happen, but hey, what the hell...

[rebowman]

back to the topic of ranger rolls and the commander who authorized them.....

Ranger rolls are specifically prohibited by CAPM 39-1.

Commanders may make a supplement or letter stricter than a regulation BUT NEVER MORE LENIENT.

Therefore, authorizing the ranger rolls is not okay.

[alamrcn]

Sure wish that 39-1 would define something it prohibits rather than use "slang" and leave it up for interpretation! Ask 5 different people what a "Ranger Roll" is, and you get... you know.

I'd half expect the term "gig-line" to appear in there somewhere, but how about prohibiting "Irish penants" or "starch donuts"?

-Ace
(with pockets on my black t-shirt... so sue me!)