I was awarded the Disaster Relief Ribbon with V clasp a short while ago. I decided to finally shell out the cash to pick it up for my ribbon rack. I know that the V is supposed to be bronze but the Hockshop sells a silver one as well. When asked why, they told me it was for the Disaster Relief Ribbon and the color is based on the level of emergency. This isn't mentioned in the regs anywhere and the best I can tell is that the silver V was used but isn't anymore. One of those things you can continue to wear if you were awarded it in the past. What's the deal with this?
We are only authorized to wear the bronze, and there is no "level" to the disaster, either POTUS declared its "bad" or he didn't.
Other services wear different colors, and there may have been something in the past, but its the bronze age for us now.
That's what I had thought but I wanted to make sure. I respond to disasters as a career and it doesn't get any worse than a Presidential...
IIRC CAPR 39-3 doesn't specify if it is to bronze or silver... I think it was one of those CAP KB clarifications.
Quote from: MIKE on December 28, 2007, 03:52:41 PM
IIRC CAPR 39-3 doesn't specify if it is to bronze or silver... I think it was one of those CAP KB clarifications.
You are correct sir...
From the KB:
Answer ID: 1414
Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" Device
Question
What are the requirements for and who has to approve the Disaster Relief Ribbon with a "V" Device?
Answer
The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a "V" device may be awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster. Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander.
See details in Paragraphs 21g and 19 (below) of CAP REGULATION 39-3 (E) AWARD OF CAP MEDALS, RIBBONS, AND CERTIFICATES
21. Criteria for Award of Service Ribbons:
g. Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" Device. The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a "V" device may be awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster. Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander. Participation in any Presidential declared disaster since 1990 qualifies.
19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons. The individual member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have been completed. The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate approving authority. (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing commander as outlined in paragraph 17b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns it to the recipient.) Upon approval, activity and service ribbons are purchased by the awarding unit or by the individual recipient, as appropriate.
Note: The Bronze V device worn on the CAP Disaster Relief ribbon by CAP members that participate in a Presidential declared national disaster is available from CAPMart/Vanguard.
[Image Here in KB]Bronze "V" Device
That's another one of those "CAP things" that RM folks have to get used to. A "V" device has an entirely different meaning to military folk.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 28, 2007, 06:33:06 PM
That's another one of those "CAP things" that RM folks have to get used to. A "V" device has an entirely different meaning to military folk.
Interesting...I would have done a double-take if I saw a "V" device on a CAP ribbon before seeing this post. I wonder how it ended up being equated to a Presidential declared disaster.
Maybe the silver is for one of the valor award ribbons?
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 28, 2007, 06:33:06 PM
That's another one of those "CAP things" that RM folks have to get used to. A "V" device has an entirely different meaning to military folk.
What does it mean in the RM?
Valor in combat or combat action... it varies slightly between services depending on what award it is attached to.
The military awards the bronze "V" device for medals that also have a peacetime application. For example, the Navy Commendation Medal can be awarded in peace time for being a superior manager, etc. or it can be awarded in combat with the bronze "V" device for an act of valor in combat that did not meet the criteria for the Bronze Star medal with the "V" device.
However, the Bronze Star Medal can be awarded in combat a meritorious act not involving combat action. If the Bronze Star was awarded in combat for valor it will have the "V". Example, I had a C.O. in the Marines who was awarded the Bronze Star Medal for being an intergral part of the planning phase and Schwartzkopf's staff during Desert Storm. He was awardrd the Bronze Star without the "V".
Other medals, like the Silver Star, Navy Cross, Air Force Cross, can only be awarded for combat valor so the "V" device is a little redundant.
I dont know that I ever saw the silver "V" on anything, at least in the Marines.
Quote from: WWIntel on December 28, 2007, 11:04:17 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 28, 2007, 06:33:06 PM
That's another one of those "CAP things" that RM folks have to get used to. A "V" device has an entirely different meaning to military folk.
Interesting...I would have done a double-take if I saw a "V" device on a CAP ribbon before seeing this post. I wonder how it ended up being equated to a Presidential declared disaster.
I was in the same boat. I had a break in CAP for a few years, and had never seen it before. When I saw a V on someone ribbon once when I came back in, I said, "Holy cow!!! Tell me the story!"
Quote from: Tubacap on December 28, 2007, 11:17:18 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 28, 2007, 06:33:06 PM
That's another one of those "CAP things" that RM folks have to get used to. A "V" device has an entirely different meaning to military folk.
What does it mean in the RM?
Royal Marines... ;)
^RM = Real McCoy ;D
Okay, I looked at 39-3 and there are no V-clasps on the CAP medals of valor and there aren't any other Vs on CAP ribbons, so the silver V must be a mistake as far as CAP is concerned.
However, it does bring up one mistake in 39-3. Attachment A2-4 pictures devices for CAP ribbons and they left out the V.
Since the V on the CAP DR ribbon has nothing at all to do with valor and since that device is firmly established as being for valor on military ribbons, shouldn't we consider changing it to something else? We use stars a lot, and a bronze star would serve the purpose just as well.
This was the final paragraph in a PA I received earlier this year, after two back to back Presidentially declared disasters:
3. Eligible personnel who have participated in both missions specified under paragraphs 1 and 2 above have the option to regard both as two separate Disaster missions to receive the Silver "V" Device IAW CAPR 39-3.
A new PA was issued later which deleted this paragraph and preceded para. 1 and 2 with this correct, but vague wording per 39-3.
...are eligible to receive the Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" Device.
Mike
Quote from: RiverAux on December 29, 2007, 12:04:35 AM
Okay, I looked at 39-3 and there are no V-clasps on the CAP medals of valor and there aren't any other Vs on CAP ribbons, so the silver V must be a mistake as far as CAP is concerned.
However, it does bring up one mistake in 39-3. Attachment A2-4 pictures devices for CAP ribbons and they left out the V.
Since the V on the CAP DR ribbon has nothing at all to do with valor and since that device is firmly established as being for valor on military ribbons, shouldn't we consider changing it to something else? We use stars a lot, and a bronze star would serve the purpose just as well.
I agree, the "V" device has too much of a solemn meaning in the US military. There are no shortages of devices that could go there that would have an independence CAP meaning.
(http://stores.uniforms-4you.com/images/attachmentsphoto.jpg)
(http://www.paradestore.com/images/RibbonAttachments2070.jpg)
I agree. The selection of a "V" is a little odd. A "D" for Disaster might make more sense.
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 29, 2007, 12:23:24 AM
I agree. The selection of a "V" is a little odd. A "D" for Disaster might make more sense.
Someone must have thought it was "cool" or, based on the times, "nifty." Anyone know the history of this ribbon and reason why it is there (other than spectuations like mine, above). For all we know there was a valid reason?
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 29, 2007, 12:18:08 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on December 29, 2007, 12:04:35 AM
Okay, I looked at 39-3 and there are no V-clasps on the CAP medals of valor and there aren't any other Vs on CAP ribbons, so the silver V must be a mistake as far as CAP is concerned.
However, it does bring up one mistake in 39-3. Attachment A2-4 pictures devices for CAP ribbons and they left out the V.
Since the V on the CAP DR ribbon has nothing at all to do with valor and since that device is firmly established as being for valor on military ribbons, shouldn't we consider changing it to something else? We use stars a lot, and a bronze star would serve the purpose just as well.
I agree, the "V" device has too much of a solemn meaning in the US military. There are no shortages of devices that could go there that would have an independence CAP meaning.
(http://stores.uniforms-4you.com/images/attachmentsphoto.jpg)
(http://www.paradestore.com/images/RibbonAttachments2070.jpg)
The "W" is for "Wintered Over" on the Antarctic Service Medal, the little C-54 is for serving on the Berlin Airlift and goes on the Medal for Humane Action (which is different from the Humanitarian Service Medal), the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor is worn by Navy folk who served with the Marines and is worn on the service ribbon, but what are the others for?
In the box:
The hourglass is for either 30 years on the Armed Forces Reserve Medal (bronze hourglass for 20), the stars are for separate campaigns on a service medal, the swords and the palm tree go on the Liberation of Kuwait medal, and the oak leaf clusters (2 shown) denote successive awards of the same medal. The numeral "7" is used on the Air Medal to denote successive awards.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 29, 2007, 01:53:27 AM
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 29, 2007, 12:18:08 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on December 29, 2007, 12:04:35 AM
Okay, I looked at 39-3 and there are no V-clasps on the CAP medals of valor and there aren't any other Vs on CAP ribbons, so the silver V must be a mistake as far as CAP is concerned.
However, it does bring up one mistake in 39-3. Attachment A2-4 pictures devices for CAP ribbons and they left out the V.
Since the V on the CAP DR ribbon has nothing at all to do with valor and since that device is firmly established as being for valor on military ribbons, shouldn't we consider changing it to something else? We use stars a lot, and a bronze star would serve the purpose just as well.
I agree, the "V" device has too much of a solemn meaning in the US military. There are no shortages of devices that could go there that would have an independence CAP meaning.
(http://stores.uniforms-4you.com/images/attachmentsphoto.jpg)
(http://www.paradestore.com/images/RibbonAttachments2070.jpg)
The "W" is for "Wintered Over" on the Antarctic Service Medal, the little C-54 is for serving on the Berlin Airlift and goes on the Medal for Humane Action (which is different from the Humanitarian Service Medal), the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor is worn by Navy folk who served with the Marines and is worn on the service ribbon, but what are the others for?
I like the hourglass, and think it should be the new device. You know, for all those "hurry up and wait" moments ;D
The "E" is the Navy "E" for effiency, but I don't know what ribbon it goes on. Back in the days of wooden ships and iron men we wore the "E" as a sew-on device on the right sleeve.
It goes on the Navy Battle "E" ribbon.
Kinda looks like the Purple Heart. (Thats not my rack)
These were just examples I could quickly find on line to show that there are alternatives.
Drift.
As the original poster, I appreciate all the research. I'll send an e-mail to the Hockshop to let them know the error. Also, I'd rather see a chance in the device to a star as well. I don't feel all that comfortable wearing something that a lot of other people had to bleed to get. Katrina was described as a warzone, and I was shot at, but I don't think it qualifies as combat!
I would love to know what #2078 is for! It looks like the Iron Cross. It would go very well with my TPU now that I have adopted the "Hermann Goring Look." A "Blue Max" for 20 finds, maybe?
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 29, 2007, 03:23:51 PM
I would love to know what #2078 is for! It looks like the Iron Cross. It would go very well with my TPU now that I have adopted the "Hermann Goring Look." A "Blue Max" for 20 finds, maybe?
Can't you see, that is for when people "get cross" with you.
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 29, 2007, 06:12:32 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 29, 2007, 03:23:51 PM
I would love to know what #2078 is for! It looks like the Iron Cross. It would go very well with my TPU now that I have adopted the "Hermann Goring Look." A "Blue Max" for 20 finds, maybe?
Can't you see, that is for when people "get cross" with you.
That joke was even bad by YOUR standards, Sparky! :P
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 30, 2007, 04:49:24 AM
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 29, 2007, 06:12:32 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 29, 2007, 03:23:51 PM
I would love to know what #2078 is for! It looks like the Iron Cross. It would go very well with my TPU now that I have adopted the "Hermann Goring Look." A "Blue Max" for 20 finds, maybe?
Can't you see, that is for when people "get cross" with you.
That joke was even bad by YOUR standards, Sparky! :P
Thanks, that made me chuckle a bit. It was either that joke or...
QuoteSorry, Kach, I didn't want to oberst your bubble.
Man, talk about no respect for your favorite sidekick. ;)
They already have "M", "E", "V" and numerals devices in use and production. Why not a "P"?
They make "O" already.
O for "operational" wouldn't be too far of a stretch for those who are awarded the ribbon for a Prez-declared disaster.
Im struggling to recall, but doesnt the CG Aux use the "V" on a ribbon?
the Auxiliary Examinations Service Award may be awarded with a V, according to http://www.medals.lava.pl/us/uschk.htm.
How about just a big 1, since that's what everyone calls a presidential declared disaster anyway? ;D
Mike
Quote from: tedda on January 02, 2008, 06:39:29 AM
the Auxiliary Examinations Service Award may be awarded with a V, according to http://www.medals.lava.pl/us/uschk.htm.
You didn't quote the AUXMAN... You phail. :D
(http://ribbons.cgaux.info/aux_ves_exam.gif)
Quote from: COMDTINST M16790.1FA.10.b. Award Elements The awards use the old AMOS ribbons with an additional device to distinguish the
new system from the discontinued awards and will include a miniature medal with
device and citation. Multiple awards for subsequent years are indicated by adding
3/16-inch bronze or silver stars. One award in each category may be issued to an
Auxiliarist each calendar year, as the award is earned. The Annual Performance
Auxiliary Recruiting Service Award uses the same ribbon as the discontinued
AMOS Member Resources Award with an "S" device, the Auxiliary VE/RBSVP
Service Award uses the discontinued AMOS VE ribbon with a "V" device, the
Auxiliary PE Service Award uses the discontinued AMOS PE ribbon with an "E"
device, and the Auxiliary Operations Service Award uses the discontinued AMOS
Operations ribbon with either an "O" or "S" device as prescribed below (only one
device may be worn, and the "O" device takes precedence). Auxiliarists may
continue to wear the old AMOS ribbons previously earned. When a new ribbon of
that same category is awarded under the new system, only the new Annual
Performance Service ribbon (with associated device) is worn. For example, when
earned, the Annual Performance Auxiliary Recruiting Service Award with an "S"
device replaces the wearing of the discontinued AMOS Member Resources Award
whatever. As of two days ago, I''ve ceased to be an Auxman myself. :P
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 29, 2007, 01:53:27 AM
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 29, 2007, 12:18:08 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on December 29, 2007, 12:04:35 AM
Okay, I looked at 39-3 and there are no V-clasps on the CAP medals of valor and there aren't any other Vs on CAP ribbons, so the silver V must be a mistake as far as CAP is concerned.
However, it does bring up one mistake in 39-3. Attachment A2-4 pictures devices for CAP ribbons and they left out the V.
Since the V on the CAP DR ribbon has nothing at all to do with valor and since that device is firmly established as being for valor on military ribbons, shouldn't we consider changing it to something else? We use stars a lot, and a bronze star would serve the purpose just as well.
I agree, the "V" device has too much of a solemn meaning in the US military. There are no shortages of devices that could go there that would have an independence CAP meaning.
(http://stores.uniforms-4you.com/images/attachmentsphoto.jpg)
(http://www.paradestore.com/images/RibbonAttachments2070.jpg)
The "W" is for "Wintered Over" on the Antarctic Service Medal, the little C-54 is for serving on the Berlin Airlift and goes on the Medal for Humane Action (which is different from the Humanitarian Service Medal), the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor is worn by Navy folk who served with the Marines and is worn on the service ribbon, but what are the others for?
Actually the "W" is for the Marine Expeditionary Medal, awarded to those who received the medal for the defense of Wake Island.
The Antarctic Service Medals wintering over device is a round device with a depiction of the continent on it.