Wondering why no Wing patch is authorized on ABUs for Pennsylvania.
Well, the Wing patch could be required, but it can't be prohibited... but check the wing's supplement to CAPM 39-1.
NG SUPPLEMENT 1
CAP MANUAL 39-1
15 JUNE 2017
APPROVED/S. PARKER/CAP/DP
Personnel
CIVIL AIR PATROL UNIFORM MANUAL
CAPM 39-1 dated 26 June 2014 including Interim Change Letter for ABU Wear is supplemented
as follows:
SUMMARY OF CHANGES. This revision is to bring this supplement into compliance with the
requirements of CAPR 1-2, Publications Management. Attachment 1 added. Note: Shaded areas
identify new or revised material.
9.2 (ADDED) Uniform items designated for wear at National Special Activities will not be
authorized for wear at PA Wing, Group or Squadron activities.
9.5 (ADDED) PA Wing Cadet Training School staff members may wear the black morale baseball
hat with functional designator (e.g. CTS, ENC, CLS, LDC, etc.) and morale shirt with the USAF-
style Utility Uniform (BDU or ABU) or Corporate-style Working Uniform (blue BDU) while on
duty at the school to aid in identification of staff. The orange CTS cover and previous variations
are no longer authorized for wear, except for when the orange cover is required for additional
visibility during field training exercises or activities as authorized by the school commander. The
placement and presentation of functional designators on hats shall be determined by the school
commander with Wing Commander concurrence. The ABU cap is the only authorized headgear
with the ABU uniform at all other times unless an exemption is granted by the Wing
Commander.
9.5.1 (ADDED) The Wing Commander may permit exceptions to this supplement in order for
membersto perform certain duties and special requirements(e.g. distinctive baseball hats for
SAR Competitions, encampments, footwear, etc.). Any authorized deviations from this
supplement will be in accordance with CAPM 39-1 and will be worn only within the boundaries
of Pennsylvania Wing and only for the duration of the exception.
ABU, Accoutrements, Left Sleeve It is the Wing Commanders decision that PA Wing members
will not wear the wing patch on the ABU.
GARY L. FLEMING Colonel, CAP
ABU, Accoutrements, Left Sleeve It is the Wing Commanders decision that PA Wing members
will not wear the wing patch on the ABU
The question should be addressed to the PAWG commander through channels.
All CAPTALK can tell you is rumor and innuendo.
Quote from: lordmonar on July 06, 2019, 04:02:14 AM
The question should be addressed to the PAWG commander through channels.
All CAPTALK can tell you is rumor and innuendo.
I think the PAWG Supplement is clear enough. NHQ through CAPM 39-1 says Wing patches are not required or optional. PAWG/CC says PAWG members will not wear the patch.
PAWG is not the only one that has put a similar supplement out, regarding wear of the patch.
In California Wing the Wing Commander made wear of the wing patch optional and said his preference was for it not to be worn on ABU's.
Very few people in CAWG wear the wing patch on their ABU's.
Quote from: PHall on July 07, 2019, 09:00:51 PM
In California Wing the Wing Commander made wear of the wing patch optional and said his preference was for it not to be worn on ABU's.
Very few people in CAWG wear the wing patch on their ABU's.
It's the same for Georgia. I wasn't aware one could mandate not wearing it.
39-1 is your friend.
The wing patch is optional at the wing's discretion, not the individual.
Well...actually...
It's optional at the member's discretion until the Wing comments one way or the other.
A lot of wings are silent on it.
Interestingly, the reg incorrectly and randomly published unsigned ABU memo doesn't
allow for a Wing CC to prohibit wear, only mandate.
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/UPDATED_ABU_wear_instruction_24_Oct_BEA8C45C7D2DD.pdf
"Left Sleeve. One full color, wing/region/national patch may be sewn to the coat on the left sleeve
½ inch below the shoulder seam reflecting the individual's current unit of assignment. Wing Commanders may
make wear of the wing patch mandatory for members of their wings."
That's a good catch... interesting..
Why is it mandatory not to wear PA Wing patch. I know what the supplement says. I want to know why. The reason? Is it to save members money?
Quote from: BradWood on July 15, 2019, 09:09:16 PM
Why is it mandatory not to wear PA Wing patch. I know what the supplement says. I want to know why. The reason? Is it to save members money?
Probably to be closer to how the Air Force wears the ABU. Same reason why they removed the US Flag from BDUs besides the HWSNBN reason.
Quote from: BradWood on July 15, 2019, 09:09:16 PM
Why is it mandatory not to wear PA Wing patch. I know what the supplement says. I want to know why. The reason? Is it to save members money?
Two reasons. The shade of blue on the wing patch is not the same as the name tapes, so it does not look good, secondly it allows for members to wear a different patch, since the regs for ABUs are much more strict on patch wear than BDUs.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Ozzy on July 15, 2019, 09:12:19 PM
Quote from: BradWood on July 15, 2019, 09:09:16 PM
Why is it mandatory not to wear PA Wing patch. I know what the supplement says. I want to know why. The reason? Is it to save members money?
Probably to be closer to how the Air Force wears the ABU. Same reason why they removed the US Flag from BDUs besides the HWSNBN reason.
Which will be a mote point once everyone switches to OCPs. Every AC, RC and AG Airman I've seen in OCPs has two patches on the sleeves and the flag is back.
Really not digging the spice brown CPT's bars and COL's Eagles but I have noticed a lot of AF Officers wearing Army CPTs and COLs black rank patches too.
Quote from: shuman14 on July 16, 2019, 01:40:49 PM
Quote from: Ozzy on July 15, 2019, 09:12:19 PM
Quote from: BradWood on July 15, 2019, 09:09:16 PM
Why is it mandatory not to wear PA Wing patch. I know what the supplement says. I want to know why. The reason? Is it to save members money?
Probably to be closer to how the Air Force wears the ABU. Same reason why they removed the US Flag from BDUs besides the HWSNBN reason.
Which will be a mote point once everyone switches to OCPs. Every AC, RC and AG Airman I've seen in OCPs has two patches on the sleeves and the flag is back.
Really not digging the spice brown CPT's bars and COL's Eagles but I have noticed a lot of AF Officers wearing Army CPTs and COLs black rank patches too.
The spice brown grade insignia is not mandatory until April 2021.
Quote from: PHall on July 16, 2019, 02:11:02 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on July 16, 2019, 01:40:49 PM
Quote from: Ozzy on July 15, 2019, 09:12:19 PM
Quote from: BradWood on July 15, 2019, 09:09:16 PM
Why is it mandatory not to wear PA Wing patch. I know what the supplement says. I want to know why. The reason? Is it to save members money?
Probably to be closer to how the Air Force wears the ABU. Same reason why they removed the US Flag from BDUs besides the HWSNBN reason.
Which will be a mote point once everyone switches to OCPs. Every AC, RC and AG Airman I've seen in OCPs has two patches on the sleeves and the flag is back.
Really not digging the spice brown CPT's bars and COL's Eagles but I have noticed a lot of AF Officers wearing Army CPTs and COLs black rank patches too.
The spice brown grade insignia is not mandatory until April 2021.
But seems to be available everywhere you go. I think it's more of a quiet rebellion.
Quote from: shuman14 on July 16, 2019, 01:40:49 PMWhich will be a mote point once everyone switches to OCPs. Every AC, RC and AG Airman I've seen in OCPs has two patches on the sleeves and the flag is back. Really not digging the spice brown CPT's bars and COL's Eagles but I have noticed a lot of AF Officers wearing Army CPTs and COLs black rank patches too.
Design wise BDU / CFDU / ABU are similar, however OCP's are totally different and would require a total revision of where insignia goes and what you would wear. And of course nobody would agree on what that would be.
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on July 16, 2019, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on July 16, 2019, 01:40:49 PMWhich will be a mote point once everyone switches to OCPs. Every AC, RC and AG Airman I've seen in OCPs has two patches on the sleeves and the flag is back. Really not digging the spice brown CPT's bars and COL's Eagles but I have noticed a lot of AF Officers wearing Army CPTs and COLs black rank patches too.
Design wise BDU / CFDU / ABU are similar, however OCP's are totally different and would require a total revision of where insignia goes and what you would wear. And of course nobody would agree on what that would be.
You should look at some photos.
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on July 16, 2019, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on July 16, 2019, 01:40:49 PMWhich will be a mote point once everyone switches to OCPs. Every AC, RC and AG Airman I've seen in OCPs has two patches on the sleeves and the flag is back. Really not digging the spice brown CPT's bars and COL's Eagles but I have noticed a lot of AF Officers wearing Army CPTs and COLs black rank patches too.
Design wise BDU / CFDU / ABU are similar, however OCP's are totally different and would require a total revision of where insignia goes and what you would wear. And of course nobody would agree on what that would be.
I think it would be fairly easy to take a Velcro insignia patch and slap it on your chest...since that's the only place it goes...
QuoteYou should look at some photos.
Giggle. Snicker, snicker. ;D
QuoteI think it would be fairly easy to take a Velcro insignia patch and slap it on your chest...since that's the only place it goes...
It's seems, from what I've seen currently being worn by USAF personnel, that what patches were worn on the BDU left/right breast pockets, disappeared from ABUs, has now returned on the OCPs but has been moved to the left/right shoulder pocket respectively.
Quote from: shuman14 on July 17, 2019, 03:43:37 PM
QuoteI think it would be fairly easy to take a Velcro insignia patch and slap it on your chest...since that's the only place it goes...
It's seems, from what I've seen currently being worn by USAF personnel, that what patches were worn on the BDU left/right breast pockets, disappeared from ABUs, has now returned on the OCPs but has been moved to the left/right shoulder pocket respectively.
Correct, along with the flag you wear your MAJCOM patch and the patch of the Wing you're assigned to.
Asked and answered, we're done.
~9907