Model Rocketry Program

[davidsinn]

Ok my steely eyed missile men My conclusion is that page 73 where the quote comes from is wrong. At the bottom of the same page it mentions one option. Two other places in the same book it mentions only needing to do one of the options. The reg also states onle one option is required. I never even noticed that before. In short you only need to do three rockets for the badge. Two for Titan and one for Saturn. I'm ignoring the requirements of Redstone because they are not germane to the discussion.

[DakRadz]

Real [model] rockets, yes, only three. Redstone's are what my 2nd grade science class did. 

Thank you sir, now I can put the finishing touches on my budget and input all into Excel (or whatever OpenOffice's knockoff of said program is called).

I think I'll send something to NHQ's AEO about this, after I talk with the Sqd/CC, AEO, and DCC.

I can't wait to do this! We may not even utilize the AFA grant system due to the application time frames- right now we are between the two, and I may not want to wait 4+ months for something we may not get, to do the program in the coldest part of the year... Yeah. But fund-raising will take care of that.

Thank you, sir!

[davidsinn]

I think I'll send something to NHQ's AEO about this, after I talk with the Sqd/CC, AEO, and DCC.

Don't forget to inform your group and wing AE. That's something everyone should be aware of.

I can't wait to do this! We may not even utilize the AFA grant system due to the application time frames- right now we are between the two, and I may not want to wait 4+ months for something we may not get, to do the program in the coldest part of the year... Yeah. But fund-raising will take care of that.

I speak from experience when I say this: Rocket engines won't ignite below 40. They get iffy at 50. The squibs just can't heat the fuel up enough. If you have no option but to shoot in the cold contact me and I can give you some advice.

Thank you, sir!

I aim to serve.

[helper]

As a reference, you probably have read the other postings for model rocketry. Take a look at http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8362.0  Reply #32 has a picture of a scrap paper rocket built from FedEx packaging materials with a BestBuy shopping bag for a parachute. The only cost was for the glue and tools. It was launched with 3 E engines and was not found afterwards.

I've had cadets build a single stage rocket from scratch in under 2 hours (use fast dry glue). Subsequent rockets were built in less time using preglued body tubes and precut cardboard fins (both also made from packaging materials).

Another inexpensive material is white card stock that you run through an inkjet printer to add a design in color.

There are lots of sounding rocket designs that can be used to pattern a scale rocket. Be sure to check the stability and add clay weight as needed. 

Just a suggestion on lowering the cost and increasing the experience. The model rocketry program can be completed in a busy weekend. My preference is to complete the 1st stage in regular squadron meetings. Completion time varies with the age and experience level of the participants.

[DakRadz]

We only have one Patron Member adult who seems to be knowledgeable on MR, so experience is low. I'm considering raising all funds for the entire squadron, and then completing the program with a SM with maybe one other cadet, so that we can teach as well. For future projects I may try "home-built" rockets. Those will give everyone something to look forward to- majorly customizable and personalized, but still safe (if safety rules are observed, of course).

For now, however, I found AC Supply. Patriot Missile and the Nova Payloader (most expensive type of rockets (replica and payload) from what I've seen)- they're sold separately, but the total price of both is $21.64. After looking through the catalog, I think AC Supply will get all our business.

Thank you for the link, helper- I saw the AC Supply link in that thread, and I have an idea on how to keep cadets involved after we finish! :clap:

[DakRadz]

Alright, here's my plan for model rockets:
15 person goal
Redstone- I'll get all materials donated in some way shape or form, not paying for meat trays. (I wonder how McDonald's will react when I ask for a couple dozen straws?)

Titan- The traditional Alpha rocket (buying the little CAP seal decals for these as well to replace the ALPHA decal)- 2 12-packs of Alpha
& 15 of the the Patriot Missile replica. Both of these take B6-4 engines, so easier to buy in bulk.
EDIT: Also buying two extra Patriot kits w/launch pad and control.

Saturn- 15 Nova Payloaders
On the Payloader, it says B4-2, B6-2, and C6-3 rockets. How much of a difference would putting a B6-4 engine in it have? I've only done this type of program once with AFJROTC, and we didn't exactly study the fine nuances of each engine. The reason being that buying two bulk B6-4 packages is a fair price and slightly more than we'll need for all three rockets- if all three can use the same, I'll buy another 3 or 4 pack, just to cover duds and such.

Another point- In your program, what about cadets whose rockets don't properly launch/land/recover? Are they outta luck until the next opportunity to complete the program? Or do you order a few extra rockets just in case? What's your method?

REDSTONE: What size insulation tube is needed? I see 1/2, 3/4, and 1 inch diameters. Which works best? The book doesn't say that.

[arajca]

Hit up your local Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, etc with an on-site photo lab to see if they'll give you film canisters the 35mm film comes in. I got about 50 just by asking. Talk to the photo lab folks directly. According to my local store, they just throw the film canisters away.

For the pipe insulation, you'll want a 1.5" outside diameter. I don't what size that is off hand.

For fun in the Redstone, build a air launcher using the information in the book. It may cost a little (I did for under $5), but it's fun. It's also interesting to let the cadets figure out what the optimum air/water ratio is for flight. Complicated by the air pressure. THe rockets are made with soda or water bottles.

[davidsinn]

Saturn- 15 Nova Payloaders
On the Payloader, it says B4-2, B6-2, and C6-3 rockets. How much of a difference would putting a B6-4 engine in it have? I've only done this type of program once with AFJROTC, and we didn't exactly study the fine nuances of each engine. The reason being that buying two bulk B6-4 packages is a fair price and slightly more than we'll need for all three rockets- if all three can use the same, I'll buy another 3 or 4 pack, just to cover duds and such.

The -4 is the delay between burn out and recovery deploy. If it's too long on a heavy rocket it will arc over too far and might not deploy correctly or even shred the chute. I wouldn't suggest going with a B6-4 for that particular rocket.

[DakRadz]

Replaced the Nova Payloader with the Payloader II- the extra money spent on rockets will be less than buying another type of engine entirely. Plus, I finally figured out the discount system, so we are eligible for 40% off everything. Plus free shipping. So about (slightly less than) $600 for 15 cadets, with a few extra bits from buying in bulk. Is that a good price?

The price includes 55 engines, 54 rockets (3 different types), enough igniters/wadding for one launch per rocket, two launch pads and controllers. Only need 45 rockets (3 per cadet, or 15 of the 3 types), so a few over.

Also, what about cadets who have malfunctions? i.e. Don't meet the requirements because of failure to deploy parachute, etc.
If you haven't had this happen, what would you do if it did? Like I said, I have extras if necessary, rockets and engines.

[arajca]

If it is not a successful flight, it doesn't count. If you have the materials and time, let the cadet fix the problem and try again. If not, they can try another day.

$40 per cadet. Not bad. Presumably the next time it'll be cheaper if you keep the infrastructure support, i.e launch pads and controllers.